BLM's Wild Horses mtg in Boise, Idaho - Page 4 - The Horse Forum
View Poll Results: Should Wild Mares be Darted?
With PZP Contraceptive 2 66.67%
With GnRH Sterilization 1 33.33%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

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post #31 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 07:05 PM
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I'm not sure if anyone is actually interested in the content of the board meeting.

So as mentioned earlier, this afternoon there was some talk of connecting with 4H to see if there could be something there.

They also went on to host speakers, one who was a therapeutic riding center that also hosts veterans.

Now they are discussing international shipments and how the horses can be used for border patrol, and other police academies.

So much more going on here than what meets the surface. Before that earlier this morning they had some local HMA guys come in to talk about their herds and what they see going on day to day. They talked about how they round up the horses and send some to adoption/holding so it isn't over populated on the range. When they collect the horses they feed them the PZP2, which kept all the mares they rounded up infertile. They said it was about every 4 years. Once the horses are rounded up it becomes increasingly difficult to continue to round them up in consecutive years. The impression I got was that they use PZP2 to reduce the quantity of horses being born each year, but it's only easy for them to do every 4 years when they round up.

Later on they talked about how the animals in the pastures are all older animals, that's where they have some 30k of mustangs ages 11 or older. The younger animals they hope to adopt or they go into corrals.

They talked about some other stuff too, looking at their previous years proposals and discussing progress made.
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post #32 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms View Post
But in truth? A 30-06 is a more humane killer than a cougar, and we can control how many hunters are allowed year by year. We have managed deer, elk and antelope for a LONG time with hunting permits. I don't see why horses are too special to be managed like any other form of wildlife. If they are WILD horses, lets manage them like WILD life.
I completely agree. A couple years ago a tribe in the southwest somewhere advertised they were going to sell horse tags as the rez horses outnumbered the feed available. Caused a big uproar from the public of course.
I saw it on FB and soon the posts were deleted. Whether they decided not to go through with the hunt or the kept it on the down low, hard to say. I can't remember where and when to do much research on the outcome.
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post #33 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filou View Post
I'm not sure if anyone is actually interested in the content of the board meeting...

Now they are discussing international shipments and how the horses can be used for border patrol, and other police academies...
The harsh truth is one can breed better quality horses than one gets from random pairings in the wild. If one can't, then breeding horses isn't what one was meant to do. Some BLM mustangs win the genetic lottery but if they were above average horses people would line up to adopt them.

If THAT is what they are talking about at this conference, then someone needs to smack them in the face.
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post #34 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bsms View Post
The harsh truth is one can breed better quality horses than one gets from random pairings in the wild. If one can't, then breeding horses isn't what one was meant to do. Some BLM mustangs win the genetic lottery but if they were above average horses people would line up to adopt them.

If THAT is what they are talking about at this conference, then someone needs to smack them in the face.
Sorry, I'm not sure how they are related. They are not talking about breeding mustangs or domestic horses to use for the boarder patrol or as police animals.

They said they had mustangs in border patrol and other police stations around the country. The horses are saddle broke, but not broke to all the stuff they might have out at the border.


I don't think anyone is suggesting to breed more mustangs to use for border patrol! Maybe offering the ones they have, trained, to the border patrol, but not breeding!
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post #35 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 10:05 PM
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To be honest, all of my friends who have mustangs (and some consider themselves bleeding heart advocates for them), were very selective and chose from the rare few that were much taller than average and had a lot better conformation. None of them adopted the 14 hand stringy ones with big heads. Those made up about 95% of the ones in the pens in Burns Oregon when I went there a few years ago.

My guess is that there will be no good solution to this problem. After all, if people were so caring about horses, why are the horse sites full of free horse ads for every injured and old horse that can't be ridden anymore? If people won't sacrifice for a horse they've known and loved for years, that their children learned to ride on, how could we expect that a small, jug-headed, untrained mustang would be taken in to their home and cared for?

These would be fair representatives of the ones I saw. Most were bay and around 14 hands.


The Mustang trainers I've known that try to train and resell them often search through to find the ones they want from different areas. They'll be very selective. For example, the one trainer found a Palomino around 15 hands that looked like a QH. That was an easy resell. He'd also look for ones that appeared stocky or drafty.
At the BLM corrals I saw a few good looking horses with better colors that were separated out, probably they had plans for those. The rest? Do you blame people for not wanting them for their next western pleasure/dressage/barrel racer? They just don't have the size or conformation.

Bearing in mind these horses are usually small, are you seeing your dream horse here? Maybe one might suit you but the rest...do we really think they're going to find great horse homes?

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post #36 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverMaple View Post
Not to mention that a release of predators into mustang habitat is also the release of predators into ranch land, and is not likely to happen anytime soon.

Exactly

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post #37 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 11:50 PM
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My 20+ year old BLM mustang. I'm 5'8" myself:




Not seeing much Border Patrol potential here. Surefooted? Yes. Careful about entering a strange place? Yep. But while he CAN carry me, it isn't fair to ask him to do so often. Some of the mustangs are bigger and have better conformation. Many are just like Cowboy. And I'm not seeing much potential for "international shipments...border patrol, and other police academies"

The horrible problem is that mustangs make lots of horses just like him, increasing 20% each year, and there is NO MARKET for them. For good reason. They aren't worth the price of hauling them somewhere. I'm told Bandit is half-mustang, with an Arabian sire:




He has some genuinely good points, but he is SOOOO not a police horse or suitable for the Border Patrol. He would be a pretty tough horse to sell too. Not a lot of "curb appeal". We're buds and that is good enough for me, but it wouldn't make him a horse someone would pay to haul any distance.

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post #38 of 82 Old 07-11-2019, 01:53 AM
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@bsms
Well, they ship them internationally for the german mustang makeover, and some border patrol and police choose these horses. I don't see why that is wrong. Clearly they see something beneficial in the animals they have chosen. Maybe yours isn't right for the job, but that doesn't mean that none are.

Can you provide a source when you say they multiply at 20% per year? I ask because in the talk today they specifically said that they weren't sure what their growth rate was, and that in some cases it very low and in some very high, and in other cases not tracked at all. You can find that in the link the op posted if they keep the text from the live stream and go back and read over those parts.

You say you have your horse because you are buds, so why can't other people want to have a mustang as their bud too? There may not be 30,000 homes for mustangs as buds out there, but there are homes for some, so I don't see why it's wrong for the BLM to explore those options like they discussed in their talk.


Not to anyone specific but just in general,

I just think there's a lot of misinformation out here in general about what's going on. There were only 20-30 people watching the live stream so it seems people don't care about the facts the BLM can provide about the animals they have. I know I learned about how they distribute the animals, what make them qualify for long term holding, what happens to them as they age and die out there, hints as to what they are planning for the future, so many things. I pass judgement on most of this stuff, but regardless of what side you fall on being educated on things is important.

Sure anyone can agree or disagree with what the BLM has discussed in the talk via my summary, but if you want to talk about it and make judgement on it it might be best to hear it from the source yourself, at least I think it comes across better that way, like you know first hand what you are talking about.
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post #39 of 82 Old 07-11-2019, 02:22 AM
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There are quite a few Border Patrol horses that came through the prison inmate rehab programs. They tend to be surefooted, tough, able to handle bad weather, and they 'alert' to something moving in the brush that, say, a Quarter Horse would not. A couple of the guys working Border Patrol in Montana loved the mustangs, and there are quite a few working the southern border as well. Now, they are VERY selective in what horses they take, and the inmate programs often search for just this type of horse -- a little stockier and larger than the typical mustang and with a calm demeanor, because they know there is a market for them. After the prison programs and other agencies get 'first crack' at the newly removed herds, there often isn't a lot left for the average person to get. I've been to three mustang adoption events where myself or a friend intended to get a horse, and we left with an empty trailer each time because there just wasn't anything decent worth putting the time and effort into, even for a pleasure horse.

Now, if the BLM puts some effort into culling the undesireable horses and leaving those with the traits people want out on the range to breed, they will end up with a MUCH more marketable product. The mustangs that stand about 15 hands and have Spanish characteristics are snatched up immediately. Let those horses reproduce, and do the hard thing and cull the ones that have no chance of a home, then use the sterilization darts to control the numbers once you have a manageable number on the ranges so that any further gathers consist of animals someone might want to adopt.
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post #40 of 82 Old 07-11-2019, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee View Post
Iím not aware that itís illegal to eat horse meat in the US, it isnít illegal to slaughter them either, or to shoot them.
The issue is the protection given to mustangs and the lack of regulated slaughter houses in the US that can take horses.
The latter needs to be addressed first
If the protection given to mustangs is then lifted they can be routinely rounded up and selectively slaughtered.
That means that the unhealthy ones are removed and the carcasses used according to assessment and excess healthy ones go for the food chain.
Thereís no need to have them hunted by shooting parties, theyíd be treated more like free range cattle
There would be no Ďfood for the needyí in this though. Horse meat thatís good quality sells for too much money in other parts of the world and is always in demand.

That aside
Those options arenít currently on offer but those in the OPís poll appear to be so maybe vote on one or other because some action is better than no action at all
You can eat whatever you want, but you can't buy horse meat in the USA. Not even in dog food. Illegal to sell. That is the work of animal rights activists.
You can euthanize your own horse. You can shoot your own horse. But horse slaughterhouses were made illegal in the USA. Horses for slaughter must be shipped to Canada or Mexico. Also the work of animal rights activists.

I think it would GREAT if feral horse herds were run like real breeding herds -- this indeed is exactly how the domestic horse was managed for thousands of years. Still is, in places like Mongolia, and almost everywhere there are feral horse populations like in the Camargue and Galicia in Spain, Assateague Island, and many other places. Somehow, the mustangs of the west just can't be done that way, according the AR's. The BLM is in no position to do so, and they wouldn't be allowed to anyway.

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blm , bureau of land management , hilton boise idaho , july10-2019 , wild horses

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