Correction with a crop is abuse??? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 45 Old 11-02-2013, 11:54 PM Thread Starter
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Correction with a crop is abuse???

Ok, so I posted earlier in the riding forum, that I used a crop to correct my horses disrespect issues. It worked like a charm, somebody (no one from here) said it was abuse. Now, it was a firm tap (smack, whatever lol) but it's nothing compared to another horses flying hooves. This person said a crop is ONLY for a leg reinforcement. I KNOW I didn't hurt him, and you better believe he straightened right up, so what is the problem?

Last week I saw another owner whipping their horse with a lunge whip (HARD! Hard enough to leave welts!) because their horse wouldn't lunge properly. That was abuse in my opinion. And our BO told them that it was to NEVER happen on her property again.

Anyways, riding crop for correction...abuse or not? Thoughts?
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post #2 of 45 Old 11-03-2013, 12:04 AM
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I don't think so. Hitting with a lunge whip? I would have beaten the woman with it, but I have whopped horses with various things so many times I can't even count them. I hav used crops, dressage whips, buckets, brooms, fists, my teeth (once), hay bales, etc. I don't go around beating horses, but if my friends horse (he is 17 hh, I'm a whopping 110 lbs) is trying to kick me I am going to teach him a lesson with whatever is handy (my horse learned long ago that a feed bucket upside the head is painful, and is now an angel lol).

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post #3 of 45 Old 11-03-2013, 12:05 AM
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Personally I don't consider it abuse. Then again, I don't see giving a smack/light punch as abuse either so long as it is to correct a behavior and you're not chasing down the horse beating it. In my experience I've come across some horses that are downright dangerous and some of the things I've done to get them off of me I'm sure many would call abuse, but the horses never quit coming up to me in the field and were never any worse for ware after the incident (though extreme cases call for extreme measures imo).

I was given great advice by the horse people I've been around that said: It's a horse. It weighs close to 1000 pounds, deals with kicks every day that would break a humans body and can plow through hot wire without looking back. To really and honestly hurt them you'd have to be trying to do so. They understand the difference between a punishment for bad behavior (like a crop/smack) and abuse. To them it's the humans way of putting force behind their "kicks/bites".

Bottom line for me is that they weigh more than I do, they will win any fight I try to pick with my bare hands (and even with equipment) and can kill me with little to no thought. While I don't want to beat a horse into submission or abuse it, if I feel they're going to kill or hurt me/themselves I have no problem getting a little rough, but then backing off when they behave.
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post #4 of 45 Old 11-03-2013, 12:07 AM
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I think its very situational. In ur instance it corrected the behaviour....therefore not abusive at all in my opinion. Its like when u spank a child. And im not talking with a belt or harshly. ...not trying to stir up that debate. But physical correction done for the SAKE of correction and NOT out of anger can be a very useful tool.
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post #5 of 45 Old 11-03-2013, 12:12 AM
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If anything it's more "abuse" as a leg reinforcement! Disciplining him is self defense!

But seriously, anyone who says that I would disregard for any horse knowledge, obviously they don't know. Any person with half a brain (not emotion) can tell what's "abusive" you may not like something but calling abuse is bs. And as far as "not liking" I completely agree you did the right thing and I'm sure most *competent* horse people would. Tough love is necessary and applies to all aspects of horse ownership.
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post #6 of 45 Old 11-03-2013, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Yogiwick View Post
If anything it's more "abuse" as a leg reinforcement! Disciplining him is self defense!

But seriously, anyone who says that I would disregard for any horse knowledge, obviously they don't know. Any person with half a brain (not emotion) can tell what's "abusive" you may not like something but calling abuse is bs. And as far as "not liking" I completely agree you did the right thing and I'm sure most *competent* horse people would. Tough love is necessary and applies to all aspects of horse ownership.
This was my exact thought. I disciplined him because he was showing an EXTREMELY dangerous behavior while I was on his back, and if it stops this behavior and protects me (or whoever is riding him at the time) then so be it.
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post #7 of 45 Old 11-03-2013, 12:26 AM
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I'll tell u one thing...growing up...at the barn where I rode...a friend of mines parents had just bought her a 25, 000 dollar horse. His name was Priceless...I will never forget it.

Anyway...she went to mount him...the dead of winter...she had on several layers of clothes and a big jacket and he bent in towards her and took an absolute CHUNK out of her breast.

Our trainer beat him from one end of the arena to the the other....over and over again. Ive never seen anything like it. We were teenagers at the time and it was just plain scary. I didnt think he was going to stop. But I tell you what. He never did it again.

Probably one of my most vivid memories of riding in general. Was it right?? I dont know. But like I said. He never did it again.
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post #8 of 45 Old 11-03-2013, 12:41 AM
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If disciplining your horse with a crop is abuse, then I am a first-class horse abuser. I have used a crop to drive my gelding backward 90ft at a dead run for pawing at me and clipping me in the leg. I've also used it when he kicked out at me when I handled his hooves. If that makes me a "horse abuser" in someone else's eyes, so be it. At least I'm safe and my horse knows NEVER to repeat that behavior ever again or there will be hell to pay.

People need to mind their own **** business and work on their own horses, unless specifically asked for help.

BTW, I had a rumor started about me at my old barn that I abused my horse because I cracked him across the hip with the flat of my hand for kicking at me when I was cleaning his feet. I know exactly who started the rumor and let me tell you, her horse was one of the worst-behaved horses on the property because she refused to reprimand her. She wouldn't even brush her properly because she was afraid the brush would hurt the horse. Yet she stood aside and did absolutely nothing when her jerk of a boyfriend literally beat her other mare bloody for not loading in a trailer (she'd only been on a trailer once before and it was a big, open gooseneck stock trailer, and they were trying to load her into a tiny, old two-horse straight load).
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post #9 of 45 Old 11-03-2013, 12:53 AM
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Sheesh, I must be an abuser too draft!!!
I have absolutely no qualms about giving a solid wallop if the time is right. The horse is 500+kg, with teeth, hooves and a heck of a lot of muscle. I am all of 60kg, with a bit of muscle but not much else going for me for self defence. If my horse is going to try me own, I can assure you, I will leave welts if I have to.
Why is a human responding to their horse taking a chunk out of them abuse, when in the paddock another horse would have kicked them to kingdom come?

To me, abuse is nagging the horse. Not giving it positive direction. Forcing the horse to step up as a leader and then when it exerts its leadership on it's human, tapping it lightly or waggling a finger with a squeaky little 'no... bad horsey'. The poor horse has no idea what's going on, and has to make its own rules. Most horses are happy to have a leader, they WANT to be led, not to have to make the decisions. There was a study done somewhere (the details escape my mind right now) that showed the dominant, lead horses in a natural environment end up dying earlier, due to the constant stress that they are under. The more submissive horses tend to survive much longer as they know their place and have direction.
If you need to give a firm whack, then by all means, do it. If it gets the desired outcome, then move on and forget it ever happened. The horse will be happier, and you will be happier.
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post #10 of 45 Old 11-03-2013, 01:00 AM
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Popping your horse with a crop is abuse? Nah, not in my world. I've seen some stuff with the whip in the horse world that I consider abuse being well accepted, but definitely not this. Everyone has a different idea of what is good and bad training though.
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