How to Explain to Someone how a Lead Shank/Stud Chain Works and Does it Hurt? - The Horse Forum
 11Likes
  • 2 Post By Bombproof
  • 4 Post By farmpony84
  • 1 Post By Bombproof
  • 2 Post By Bombproof
  • 2 Post By Bombproof
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 9 Old 07-17-2019, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 42
• Horses: 0
How to Explain to Someone how a Lead Shank/Stud Chain Works and Does it Hurt?

After my ride today, I was grazing my gelding and this little girl who had come for her lesson ran up to us and asked if she could pet him. Normally, I'd say "Yeah, of course" but he'd been having an off day and I didn't want anyone unfamiliar to touch him. She looked disappointed but then saw the lead shank over his nose. This girl apparently had never seen one being used and wanted to know "Why there was a chain over his nose"

So I told her it was "to keep better control of him because sometimes he can be a dingus." Which I figured would be a good enough explanation for a 9-ish-year-old.

She asks how that helps and I tell her "I pull down on it."

And there's the question, "But doesn't that hurt him?"

I'm thinking, 'Yeah, that's kinda how it works. But... Does it?'

Because I don't know the proper answer, and I didn't want to scar this young child for life by telling her it hurts, I just said "It's better for you, me and him to have this on him." and walked back into the barn to put him in his stall.

So, if someone with much more knowledge of lead shanks could help me and explain more about what it does to my horse when I have to pull it and how I could explain whenever the next person asks.

Thank you!
A-Rider-Called-Carvide is offline  
post #2 of 9 Old 07-24-2019, 04:42 PM
Foal
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 123
• Horses: 1
I sometimes get similar questions when people see my very strong dog in a pinch collar. The best way I know to explain it is that I don't pull on the collar (or the stud chain, I've used those too), I take my position and the animal decides whether or not to pull. A stud chain or pinch collar is completely painless unless you apply pressure to it. I don't decide whether to apply discomfort; the animal does and I've never seen a dog or horse pull hard enough to cause themselves injury or even serious pain. You can certainly hurt an animal by jerking or yanking on a control device, but I don't do that. If a horse pulls and it causes discomfort, he'll stop pulling if he's allowed to.
loosie and Woodhaven like this.
Bombproof is offline  
post #3 of 9 Old 07-24-2019, 04:58 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: New England
Posts: 12,001
• Horses: 3
I would have said "only if it's not used properly".
Yogiwick is offline  
post #4 of 9 Old 07-24-2019, 05:37 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 25,264
• Horses: 7
That's a tricky question.

I think the right answer is yes. It does, which is why it should only be used by someone that knows what they are doing. In the wrong hands it could actually cause permanent damage to a horse. BUT, when used properly it really only makes the horse feel uncomfortable enough to obey.

@Bombproof I always hated those pronged dog collars and never saw any use for them until my obedience school reject came along. He's a big German Shepherd and he was so miserable to walk because of how badly he pulled that I broke down an bought one. I was amazed at how quickly and how easily he learned. He's smart. He pulled on it ONE time. Now he is a very gentle walk. He races forward but the moment he feels pressure he backs off. It's a nice tool for a dog with ... uh... ADHD?
loosie, bsms, knightrider and 1 others like this.

"Be a best friend, tell the truth, and overuse I love you
Go to work, do your best, don't outsmart your common sense
Never let your prayin knees get lazy
And love like crazy"
farmpony84 is offline  
post #5 of 9 Old 07-24-2019, 05:43 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 20,126
• Horses: 0
Yes it can hurt the horse. That's the whole point. And of using a bit, whip, spurs etc... prong or shock collar on a dog...

BUT when a horse(or dog) is taught well *first*, without punishment, and the handler is knowledgeable & skilled with the use of tools like that, then it doesn't NEED to be painful generally. The animal can then learn how to *avoid* these things becoming painful, as @Bombproof explained. It can then be reserved for 'emergency' use, when it may be necessary to use force for control.

Eg. I use predominantly positive reinforcement/reward based training with my animals & seldom find punishment necessary(think it's generally best avoided where possible). But when the 'chips are down' & my normally obedient dogs are loose in the bush when a kangaroo goes past & their little hunting brains no longer register anything but instinctive chase, they are wearing e-collars(prior trained to understand them) and the pain of a light static shock is needed to stop them in their tracks & get them coming back to me - and rewarded for doing so.

*I do think a chain over a horse's sensitive nose or lip is a bit of an exception to the above tho - think that's generally painful, or at least quite uncomfortable - & so would not use that.

**Note again the; when a horse(or dog) is taught well *first*, without punishment, and the handler is knowledgeable & skilled... I believe it's a 'prerequisite' that the animal AND handler be well enough educated & skilled BEFORE using tools such as these, to be 'humane'.

I dont agree with just using stud chains on young studs for eg for control without first teaching them how TO behave. I also don't believe it's humane for an unknowledgeable or unskilled person to be given those tools to use on an animal.

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
loosie is offline  
post #6 of 9 Old 07-25-2019, 07:50 PM
Foal
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 123
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpony84 View Post
@Bombproof I always hated those pronged dog collars and never saw any use for them until my obedience school reject came along. He's a big German Shepherd and he was so miserable to walk because of how badly he pulled that I broke down an bought one. I was amazed at how quickly and how easily he learned. He's smart. He pulled on it ONE time. Now he is a very gentle walk. He races forward but the moment he feels pressure he backs off. It's a nice tool for a dog with ... uh... ADHD?
Exactly, but the point is that the dog decides whether or not to apply pressure. It's a control device, not a punishment tool. I never thought a 65 pound dog could almost drag me until I got a pit bull. They're very strong and moderately hard-headed. Overall, he's better-behaved than most dogs, but he can get pretty excited and distracted on walks. The pinch collar keeps him from jerking my shoulder out of socket.
farmpony84 likes this.
Bombproof is offline  
post #7 of 9 Old 07-25-2019, 08:03 PM
Foal
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 123
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie View Post
*I do think a chain over a horse's sensitive nose or lip is a bit of an exception to the above tho - think that's generally painful, or at least quite uncomfortable - & so would not use that.
I don't entirely agree with you on this. I have used a chain over a horse's nose but the same principles apply as a pinch collar on a dog. I used to have a QH/Arab mare who was extremely energetic and would always try to go faster when being walked. If she didn't get her way, she'd throw her head. The chain across her nose stopped that behavior; if she didn't toss her head, there was no discomfort. A chain lying loosely across a horse's nose isn't painful. If you don't believe me, lay one loosely across your nose. Then, just for fun, lean into it a little bit. It's all up to you whether your nose hurts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie View Post
I dont agree with just using stud chains on young studs for eg for control without first teaching them how TO behave. I also don't believe it's humane for an unknowledgeable or unskilled person to be given those tools to use on an animal.
On this we are 100% on the same page.
loosie and horselovinguy like this.
Bombproof is offline  
post #8 of 9 Old 07-26-2019, 02:34 AM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 20,126
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bombproof View Post
Exactly, but the point is that the dog decides whether or not to apply pressure. It's a control device, not a punishment tool.
Technically it is absolutely a punishment tool. Just that when used properly the dog punishes himself with it.

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
loosie is offline  
post #9 of 9 Old 07-26-2019, 07:05 PM
Foal
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 123
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie View Post
Technically it is absolutely a punishment tool. Just that when used properly the dog punishes himself with it.
LOL! Okay, but that's semantics. I don't typically think of something as punishment when you do it to yourself. Regardless, the point is that the dog/horse gets to decide what happens.
loosie and horselovinguy like this.
Bombproof is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome