How to be respected? - The Horse Forum
 26Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 23 Old 05-12-2019, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 29
• Horses: 0
Hi,

Almost each time I’m going to take the horse in the field for my lessons, he’s always have his ears on his back and try to jump on me. The trick is to move the halters around to scare the horse and make him run a bit until he stop moving for good, but how can I stop that from happening?

I’m trying to be the most gentle possible, but this horse just don’t like me or like to go to the lessons.

Another problem is when putting the saddle, always ears on his back and try to bite me. Same when tightening the strap the slowest possible.

Maybe a trauma from someone before me and my instructor before she owned it? How to reverse this?

Thank you
Nic727 is offline  
post #2 of 23 Old 05-12-2019, 03:24 PM
Foal
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Virginia
Posts: 115
• Horses: 0
Horses use body language as their main form of communication. Ears are a part of the body, and therefore can be used for communication. It's called "body language" - not "ear language". You have to look, listen, and read the entire horse; do not take something out of context. Ears back and ears flatly pinned are two very different things. For most horses, simply having their ears back is not really enough to warrant doing anything. The horse could be listening to something behind them, relaxing, standing in the wind, or in pain.

I do not understand what you mean by "try[ing] to jump on me." Do you mean the horse is moving forward and you just so happen to be in the way or that the horse is literally jumping on top of you, as in attacking? Perhaps you could clarify?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic727 View Post
The trick is to move the halters around to scare the horse
Unless the horse is being extremely aggressive and/or trying to kill you, for most of the time, you should not be trying to purposefully scare the horse as a form of correction. The purpose is to redirect and teach the horse - not scare them; a horse cannot both respect and fear you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic727 View Post
Iím trying to be the most gentle possible
While it's good that you are trying to be gentle, if it's not working, then it's not working. Do not do the same thing over and over again and expect the horse to give you a different result. You either need to change the question, change the way you ask the question, or change the amount of pressure. "If the horse gives you the wrong answer, it means you asked the question wrong, for horses are (usually) a reflection of how they are handled." Set the horse up for success (not failure) and help them find the right answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic727 View Post
this horse just donít like me or like to go to the lessons.
Is this a lesson horse? Many lesson horses tend to be jaded, especially if they are teaching beginners, especially, especially if those said beginners only go out there and work the horse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic727 View Post
Another problem is when putting the saddle, always ears on his back and try to bite me.
This goes back to my previous comment. How is his health? Horses that are in pain, such as from ulcers, can get girthy. How does his tack fit? Ill fitting tack can be uncomfortable, and in more extreme cases or with sensitive horses, cause pain. How do you ride? If you're unbalanced, flopping, and bouncing around or ride like sack of potatoes, that can cause the horse's back to become sore, especially if coupled with ill fitting tack.

Has he had this problem before? If not, then it is likely to have been caused by one (or some) of the above factors or something else. If he has had this problem before, it could be because he never learned to accept that being girthed is okay.

ETA:
What do you do when he tries to bite you? If you flinch and yield, that is basically teaching the horse that biting, or the attempt of, is the right answer. If you do so, the more you do it, the lesson gets reaffirmed every time, and the behavior will be more difficult to adjust later on. If you correct sometimes and yield other times, that confuses the horse about whether or not biting, or the attempt of, is okay or not. Once you set your rules, you have to be consistent.

Do not be quick to blame the horse. Examine the above and get back to us.
loosie, TimmysMom, boots and 5 others like this.

"I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand." - Confucius

Last edited by LoonWatcher; 05-12-2019 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Grammar. Adding.
LoonWatcher is offline  
post #3 of 23 Old 05-12-2019, 07:34 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 46,931
• Horses: 2
Please consider that the OP might not be a native speaker of English. Thi might affect how one interpretes his/her post, and in how you write your response.
tinyliny is offline  
post #4 of 23 Old 05-12-2019, 08:09 PM
Foal
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 241
• Horses: 0
Helloo Nic,

It would help us find you a solution if we can know a little bit more about you and your horse. How old is your horse?? When did you get him?? When you bought him was he green or newly broke or rideable ect??

Ain't no Foal to this.
humanartrebel1020 is offline  
post #5 of 23 Old 05-12-2019, 08:12 PM
Foal
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 174
• Horses: 0
This reminds me of the time I posted about a particular lesson horse and their 'attitudes'. I remember good advice, and not so good advice...something a long the lines of 'give up'. Well don't give up.

(I'm saying this in the assumption that the horse has no health problems that is making him/her act in a certain way. You should ask someone who knows the horse if he or she has any issues first and foremost).

Check for body language before you approach the horse, and when you do approach the horse, assess the situation. Horses will often try things like biting, running, etc because they do not respect you or are not wanting to do what you ask of them. That's any animal. The key is consistency. If you find something that works, keep doing it. As it was said, if you flinch or are acting afraid, you are teaching the horse it is okay to continue its behavior. I dealt with a horse that bit me due to girth issues (no health issues, just jaded..too many beginners). What worked for me was holding a lead rope. If the horse tried to bite, he'd get a little tap with the soft end of the rope and a sharp 'NO' or similar noise to grab his attention. It was such a light tap- but the action of standing my ground like that made him keep his distance. He never tried to do it again.

Now not everything is going to work for every horse, and it is up to you to find out what can work specifically. But I believe standing your ground (no fear) and being clear with your intent. Words mean nothing to animals. Body language and intent is key. Save the sweet talk for a reward.

cantering on, into the familiar and unknown
Finalcanter is offline  
post #6 of 23 Old 05-13-2019, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 29
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoonWatcher View Post
Horses use body language as their main form of communication. Ears are a part of the body, and therefore can be used for communication. It's called "body language" - not "ear language". You have to look, listen, and read the entire horse; do not take something out of context. Ears back and ears flatly pinned are two very different things. For most horses, simply having their ears back is not really enough to warrant doing anything. The horse could be listening to something behind them, relaxing, standing in the wind, or in pain.

I do not understand what you mean by "try[ing] to jump on me." Do you mean the horse is moving forward and you just so happen to be in the way or that the horse is literally jumping on top of you, as in attacking? Perhaps you could clarify?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic727 View Post
The trick is to move the halters around to scare the horse
Unless the horse is being extremely aggressive and/or trying to kill you, for most of the time, you should not be trying to purposefully scare the horse as a form of correction. The purpose is to redirect and teach the horse - not scare them; a horse cannot both respect and fear you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic727 View Post
I’m trying to be the most gentle possible
While it's good that you are trying to be gentle, if it's not working, then it's not working. Do not do the same thing over and over again and expect the horse to give you a different result. You either need to change the question, change the way you ask the question, or change the amount of pressure. "If the horse gives you the wrong answer, it means you asked the question wrong, for horses are (usually) a reflection of how they are handled." Set the horse up for success (not failure) and help them find the right answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic727 View Post
this horse just don’t like me or like to go to the lessons.
Is this a lesson horse? Many lesson horses tend to be jaded, especially if they are teaching beginners, especially, especially if those said beginners only go out there and work the horse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic727 View Post
Another problem is when putting the saddle, always ears on his back and try to bite me.
This goes back to my previous comment. How is his health? Horses that are in pain, such as from ulcers, can get girthy. How does his tack fit? Ill fitting tack can be uncomfortable, and in more extreme cases or with sensitive horses, cause pain. How do you ride? If you're unbalanced, flopping, and bouncing around or ride like sack of potatoes, that can cause the horse's back to become sore, especially if coupled with ill fitting tack.

Has he had this problem before? If not, then it is likely to have been caused by one (or some) of the above factors or something else. If he has had this problem before, it could be because he never learned to accept that being girthed is okay.

ETA:
What do you do when he tries to bite you? If you flinch and yield, that is basically teaching the horse that biting, or the attempt of, is the right answer. If you do so, the more you do it, the lesson gets reaffirmed every time, and the behavior will be more difficult to adjust later on. If you correct sometimes and yield other times, that confuses the horse about whether or not biting, or the attempt of, is okay or not. Once you set your rules, you have to be consistent.

Do not be quick to blame the horse. Examine the above and get back to us.
The horse has the ears like this image
https://s.equimed.com/images/arch/2/2z/2zm.jpg

By trying to jump on me, I mean that like always, he is eating in the field with his friends. I’m approaching slowly and talk to the horse in a gentle way and try to be fun, but when I’m around 3-4 meters from the horses, he put his ears backward.

Here is where it’s complicated, because I need this horse for the lessons. If I start approaching to put halters on the horse, he run away or try to rush on me.

The horse, I don’t think it’s a stallion, but he seems very dominant, like if he runs away, all other horses start following him (or her).

So I’m running after the horse. Other horses seem to circle around saying like ę*stop that and go to work*Ľ and kind of protect me. When he tries to rush on me or show his ***, I’m moving the leash to scare the horse until he finally stop moving and that I can take him to the barn.

For the saddle part, the horse only see the saddle that he try has his ears backward and try to bite, but his head is attached to each side. When he try to buy me, I’m pushing his head away. When tightening the strap for the saddle, it start again.

Maybe it’s a very sensitive horse or a student in the past did something wrong with a past instructor, so the owner does lot know?

Other that those moments, the horse is calm and really good, but I want to find a way to make the horse have more confidence into humans and me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny View Post
Please consider that the OP might not be a native speaker of English. Thi might affect how one interpretes his/her post, and in how you write your response.
Thank you. I don’t know all technical terms in English and when I wrote that, I didn’t have time to use a dictionary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by humanartrebel1020 View Post
Helloo Nic,

It would help us find you a solution if we can know a little bit more about you and your horse. How old is your horse?? When did you get him?? When you bought him was he green or newly broke or rideable ect??
It’s not my horse, it’s the horse of the owner of the place. As I know it’s an almost 15yo Quarter Horse which is good for lessons. I don’t really know the background but that one time the horse became more agressive. Maybe a student wasn’t good with the horse? The owner also don’t know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finalcanter View Post
This reminds me of the time I posted about a particular lesson horse and their 'attitudes'. I remember good advice, and not so good advice...something a long the lines of 'give up'. Well don't give up.

(I'm saying this in the assumption that the horse has no health problems that is making him/her act in a certain way. You should ask someone who knows the horse if he or she has any issues first and foremost).

Check for body language before you approach the horse, and when you do approach the horse, assess the situation. Horses will often try things like biting, running, etc because they do not respect you or are not wanting to do what you ask of them. That's any animal. The key is consistency. If you find something that works, keep doing it. As it was said, if you flinch or are acting afraid, you are teaching the horse it is okay to continue its behavior. I dealt with a horse that bit me due to girth issues (no health issues, just jaded..too many beginners). What worked for me was holding a lead rope. If the horse tried to bite, he'd get a little tap with the soft end of the rope and a sharp 'NO' or similar noise to grab his attention. It was such a light tap- but the action of standing my ground like that made him keep his distance. He never tried to do it again.

Now not everything is going to work for every horse, and it is up to you to find out what can work specifically. But I believe standing your ground (no fear) and being clear with your intent. Words mean nothing to animals. Body language and intent is key. Save the sweet talk for a reward.
Thank you will keep these advices in mind.
Nic727 is offline  
post #7 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 08:06 AM
Started
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: NW Connecticut
Posts: 2,403
• Horses: 1
There are many ways to make "friends" with a horse, all of which require unfettered access. They all involve spending time with the horse doing what the horse likes doing: grazing, brushing, just hanging out. I realize that you don't have that opportunity.

To me, this is a lesson-sour horse. The image of another beginner students arriving and the thought of another beginner lesson makes him (or her - your words) recoil. This is not your fault.

The only thing you can try is to come early and leave late, to give that horse some pamper time. As indicated above, you need to stand your ground, but don't take the horse to the lesson as reward for complying, give it a genuine reward. If you take the horse to its pasture after the lesson, spend some time. Take a brush with you, maybe some carrots, and give it some loving, so that's the last thing the horse experiences in any encounter with you.

Pinning ears and moving away sounds like a thoroughly defensive move, but defensive aggression is a fact. From what I gathered from the narrative, this horse's lesson program needs to be severely downsized, because he's had it.
bsms, JoBlueQuarter and Bugbegone like this.
mmshiro is online now  
post #8 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 09:41 AM
Foal
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Northern,Colorado
Posts: 46
• Horses: 2
Quote:
The horse has the ears like this image
https://s.equimed.com/images/arch/2/2z/2zm.jpg

By trying to jump on me, I mean that like always, he is eating in the field with his friends. I’m approaching slowly and talk to the horse in a gentle way and try to be fun, but when I’m around 3-4 meters from the horses, he put his ears backward.
Those are those ears are trying to tell you something, And usually, there are many other things with there body language that will communicate with you that they are trying to say. This is not a good thing for a lesson horse to be doing.

Quote:
So I’m running after the horse. Other horses seem to circle around saying like ę*stop that and go to work*Ľ and kind of protect me. When he tries to rush on me or show his ***, I’m moving the leash to scare the horse until he finally stop moving and that I can take him to the barn.
Running after a horse, Especially one that does not know you is not a good idea. If you run after a horse you are scaring them as that movement will cause them to see you as a predator. It sounds to me from many of your responses that you were turned out to go get this horse on your own too soon. Without enough knowledge of this horse and how to approach him/her. You know have taught this horse to fear you. By running after it and swinging halters and ropes around it. You should be asking the owner/ Lesson instructor whichever it may be, to go out with you and teach you how to properly catch and handle a horse/ This horse. So that you can gain its trust.


Quote:
For the saddle part, the horse only see the saddle that he try has his ears backward and try to bite, but his head is attached to each side. When he try to buy me, I’m pushing his head away. When tightening the strap for the saddle, it start again.
This horse could be in pain. when tightening the strap ( Cinch ) some horses get what they call cinchy do to ulcers or having the cinch over tightened which causes discomfort. So they anticipate that discomfort and can give you signs of upset letting you know they don't like that. The owner/ trainer should be able to look into this problem.

Quote:
Maybe it’s a very sensitive horse or a student in the past did something wrong with a past instructor, so the owner does lot know?
This stament concerns me as the owner/ instructor should know about there own horse and if they don't they should not be allowing a beginner on said horse.

Quote:
Other that those moments, the horse is calm and really good, but I want to find a way to make the horse have more confidence into humans and me.
It is wonderful that you want to work on giving this horse more confidence with you.. As said above first step for you to do would be change the way you approach this horse. Don't chase the horse when it runs from you. Slow your pace, Pay attintion to how you are feeling. ( When you go into the pen are you feeling Stressed, scared, Rushed etc...) Horses can tell when we are anything but calm and will react to the invisible signs we give off about how we are feeling inside. Maybe if you can have the owner/ instructor get the horse for you with you following and observing. (If this horse is doing these things for the owner as well then there is something more going on.) They need to be showing you how to approach and catch a horse without creating stress and fear in them.


Quote:
It’s not my horse, it’s the horse of the owner of the place. As I know it’s an almost 15yo Quarter Horse which is good for lessons. I don’t really know the background but that one time the horse became more agressive. Maybe a student wasn’t good with the horse? The owner also don’t know.
How did you find this Horse and instructor? Is the ower your teacher? Is this person that is teaching you actually an instructor? This is odd to me that the person you have chosen to teach you does not know about there own horse that they are entrusting to teach beginners. How long has this person had said lesson horse? If the owner cannot give you good answers I personally would stop lessons with this person and horse and look for someone else to teach you that has a good reputation in your area.

Thank you will keep these advices in mind.[/QUOTE]


I wish you luck on your equine journey. I hope that you can get the proper instruction that you need. Be safe and if what you are doing now with this horse is not working, there needs to be a change in what you're doing.
JoBlueQuarter likes this.
Countrylovingmamma is offline  
post #9 of 23 Old 05-16-2019, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 29
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmshiro View Post
There are many ways to make "friends" with a horse, all of which require unfettered access. They all involve spending time with the horse doing what the horse likes doing: grazing, brushing, just hanging out. I realize that you don't have that opportunity.

To me, this is a lesson-sour horse. The image of another beginner students arriving and the thought of another beginner lesson makes him (or her - your words) recoil. This is not your fault.

The only thing you can try is to come early and leave late, to give that horse some pamper time. As indicated above, you need to stand your ground, but don't take the horse to the lesson as reward for complying, give it a genuine reward. If you take the horse to its pasture after the lesson, spend some time. Take a brush with you, maybe some carrots, and give it some loving, so that's the last thing the horse experiences in any encounter with you.

Pinning ears and moving away sounds like a thoroughly defensive move, but defensive aggression is a fact. From what I gathered from the narrative, this horse's lesson program needs to be severely downsized, because he's had it.
Yeah I will try to be here early and get some time with the horse before my lessons. Will try to keep the halter and leash on the fence when entering for the horse to see me without them. I don't know if he will still try to run away. I'm not stressed when going in the pasture. I'm just going quietly and talking, but well... I'm also not the only person taking this horse. I think there is one or two more persons the day before and I don't know for the other days.


For the lesson program, we are just walking in circle, trotting and canter while practicing some patterns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Countrylovingmamma View Post
Those are those ears are trying to tell you something, And usually, there are many other things with there body language that will communicate with you that they are trying to say. This is not a good thing for a lesson horse to be doing.

Running after a horse, Especially one that does not know you is not a good idea. If you run after a horse you are scaring them as that movement will cause them to see you as a predator. It sounds to me from many of your responses that you were turned out to go get this horse on your own too soon. Without enough knowledge of this horse and how to approach him/her. You know have taught this horse to fear you. By running after it and swinging halters and ropes around it. You should be asking the owner/ Lesson instructor whichever it may be, to go out with you and teach you how to properly catch and handle a horse/ This horse. So that you can gain its trust.

This horse could be in pain. when tightening the strap ( Cinch ) some horses get what they call cinchy do to ulcers or having the cinch over tightened which causes discomfort. So they anticipate that discomfort and can give you signs of upset letting you know they don't like that. The owner/ trainer should be able to look into this problem.

This stament concerns me as the owner/ instructor should know about there own horse and if they don't they should not be allowing a beginner on said horse.

It is wonderful that you want to work on giving this horse more confidence with you.. As said above first step for you to do would be change the way you approach this horse. Don't chase the horse when it runs from you. Slow your pace, Pay attintion to how you are feeling. ( When you go into the pen are you feeling Stressed, scared, Rushed etc...) Horses can tell when we are anything but calm and will react to the invisible signs we give off about how we are feeling inside. Maybe if you can have the owner/ instructor get the horse for you with you following and observing. (If this horse is doing these things for the owner as well then there is something more going on.) They need to be showing you how to approach and catch a horse without creating stress and fear in them.

How did you find this Horse and instructor? Is the ower your teacher? Is this person that is teaching you actually an instructor? This is odd to me that the person you have chosen to teach you does not know about there own horse that they are entrusting to teach beginners. How long has this person had said lesson horse? If the owner cannot give you good answers I personally would stop lessons with this person and horse and look for someone else to teach you that has a good reputation in your area.


I wish you luck on your equine journey. I hope that you can get the proper instruction that you need. Be safe and if what you are doing now with this horse is not working, there needs to be a change in what you're doing.

Hahaha. I think by running you are seeing me running after the horse like crazy, but in fact I'm just following him or walking to him. But how should I do for the horse to not see me as a predator?


My instructor said me that the horse should not win and should have a consequence by not being gentle, but you need to do it calmly and not attack the horse. I think she is kinda right about it. The horse need to understand that I'm coming gently, taking him to the barn and that he will return in the field after some exercice. My instructor is the owner of the place and she knows what to do with horses. She have some horses in pension and she already has to get rid of some horses owners who were not taking care of their horses correctly. She is a good instructor too and she has been doing that for years now. For the horse in particular, she said that it was fine before, but for a couple of months or 2-3 years from now, the horse started doing that and she is giving the horse some drugs for the pain and some rests most of the days.


I actually think than an old student just did something wrong one time and nobody was here to see that and since then, the horse is scare of humans.


Well... That being said, I will take it more slowly this time.
Nic727 is offline  
post #10 of 23 Old 05-16-2019, 05:03 PM
Foal
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Virginia
Posts: 115
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic727 View Post
But how should I do for the horse to not see me as a predator?
Don't act like one.

Respect is a two way street. Show some respect to the horse and the horse will show some respect to you.

Be conscious of the way you approach the horse. Predators tend to focus, streamline, and move directly to and into their target's face. Horses don't talk that way unless they are challenging.

If you have the time:
Walk casually and gently (with purpose but not focusing and targeting) toward the horse's shoulder or flank (or hip). If the horse walks away, walk with him; do not move faster than an walk. If he stops and/or looks at you, stop, back up, and face somewhere else (do not directly stare at the horse). Teach him that stopping and/or looking is the correct answer by taking off your pressure. Wait a few seconds before starting to try again. Rinse and repeat. You go to him whenever he walks and/or looks away.
When you get near him, do something he likes, such at being pet, swat flies, or giving him a treat, then walk away. Rinse and repeat a few times. Once he gets used to that, try rubbing him (on the neck and/or shoulder) with the halter and walk away. Rinse and repeat a few times. Teach him that every time you go to him, you aren't going to catch him. Once he get used to that, halter him, walk him a few steps, unhalter him. and walk away. Teach him that every time you halter him, he isn't going to go far and work.

For now, stay out of the horse's face as much as possible; only go to his face to put on his halter.
loosie and JoBlueQuarter like this.

"I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand." - Confucius
LoonWatcher is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bucking horses are respected athletes too... smrobs Horse Talk 8 08-29-2013 12:01 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome