I really need some help please =[ sad post. - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 12-17-2010, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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I really need some help please =[ sad post.

Sorry for the emotional post, I'm so upset, sat here crying my eyes out.

Got kicked by a horse today. Now, it hurt like billyo, but thats not why I'm sad.

This horse belongs to my OH's mum (known as G from here on in). She's a thoroughbred x from great breeding, bred to be an eventer but never got big enough (shes 15.2). Pretty horse, gorgeous face. However, she's just horrid.

After alot of bad behaviour (ending in her rearing up and over and landing on G), we discovered that she had kissing spines, and gastric ulcers. Both have been treated (she had the ks op), and the gastric ulcers were intenstively treated and now shes on a supplement. However, she's still HORRID.

She pulls faces. She bites. She goes to bite EVERY time you go near her - when you do a rug, feel underneath a rug, brush her, tack her up, give her a feed. When you put a haynet up, her ears are always flat back at you. She totally ignores you when you ask her to move, until you smack her or force her to move, then she bites. She's also recently started waving a leg when you're behind her and annoying her. We've been ignoring it as we never believed she'd kick out. Tonight, I was stood behind her scooping up poo, she waved a leg, I asked her to move her bum and she kicked out. Properly kicked out, thankfully catching much more of the scoop than of me, but painful nonetheless. I screamed at her and you could see from her body language she'd done wrong, but that didn't stop her pulling a face at me again 2 secs later.

I should add that shes not my horse, I just do all the work. G works away during the week, and is barely around on the weekends when she is home. She's too nervous to do much, and is so shy around Dotty that she never struggles with her because she just avoids the teeth and lets madam do whatever she wants.

The horse is better with my OH too, he's very experienced.

I guess I'm just looking for some advice. I am calm around her but I do insist she does what I ask. I don't move away when she goes to bite, and if she does actually connect she gets a smack but not a huge fuss. I struggle to believe that shes just a horrid horse, particularly as she's SO bad with me but less awful to others.

If anyone has any advice, exercises I can do with her, work in the school in hand, work in the box, anything. Please. xxxx
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post #2 of 31 Old 12-17-2010, 01:46 PM
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Where do you "smack" her when she bites. I would avoid the face if you aren't already, I would work on getting her to move her feet, and turn towards you instead of away from you. Put a line on her, take her into a round pen if you have one, or a safe place to work her if you don't, and make her move her feet. Start by twirling a rope towards her back end, and make her move away from that pressure, as soon as she moves a step or two, praise her, then ask again. Praise again when she does what you ask. Then switch sides, and repeat on the opposite side. I highly recommend that you read Richard Maxwell's books, he's got one for dealing with problem horses, just can't remember the title. How much experience do you have working with horses? Is there a way you could get help from a trainer, someone who's NOT afraid of her already that can help you out? Unless you have a lot of experience, I would hesitate to try and do a whole bunch with her on your own, just make sure that you are safer on the ground around her to begin with. I agree that it definitely hurts to get kicked. My Arabian kicked me a couple of times in the year I've had her because she's had so little handling that she tends to forget she has to listen to the human, and all I did was make her spin her butt away from me, make her move her feet, remind her that I'm the leader, and she hasn't done it since those first two times. I would look at getting some sort of outside help if you can before she really hurts someone.
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post #3 of 31 Old 12-17-2010, 01:49 PM
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Fuss! I'd go BANANAS if either of my mares decide to be mean and kick out or bite. One kick and the broom will go right on the butt accompanied by yell, no fuss. Bite - and they'll meet my elbow right in nose. I don't care what they think, but when I take care of them all the time such behavior is unacceptable! Sounds like you just let her get away with it...



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post #4 of 31 Old 12-17-2010, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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She only ever gets smacked on the shoulder or bum (depending on where I am), never EVER on the face, I absolutely would never hit her on the face.

I think you're right about needing control of her feet. My problem is that she just bites. I do have a trainer that is willing to spend some time with me and her, but even he is nervous of having chunks ripped out of him again, and again, and again. Biting HURTS =[

Kitten_val, I have come back at her full force when she's bitten once or twice. The first time she looked shocked at cowered at the back of her box. The second time, she span and double barrelled me in the hip/bum. She will FIGHT you, she's extremely dominant.
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post #5 of 31 Old 12-17-2010, 03:57 PM
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Is this normal behavior? I mean, was she well behaved and then turned "evil" or has she always been witchy? If this is a turn of events then I would have the vet out again to make sure all of her issues are handled and she is not in pain. Pain can make a horse really grouchy.

I disagree with the "never in the face" mode of thinking on this specific case. Generally I would say no to hitting the face but not in this case. She sounds like she's getting dangerous. My suggestion is the moment she bits, smack her. I don't mean beat the crap out of her, I mean, within 3 seconds, smack her. Muzzle or cheek. She needs to associated a smack with the bite. It will cause her to get a little head shy but the head shyness will go away when the smacking go's away, which will go away when the biting go's away.

I did it with my own horse and it worked. As for the kicking, figure out if it's bad behavior or if there is a pain issue.....

Good luck.

"Be a best friend, tell the truth, and overuse I love you
Go to work, do your best, don't outsmart your common sense
Never let your prayin knees get lazy
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post #6 of 31 Old 12-17-2010, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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She's always been a horrid cow, but was worse with pain - is now definitely back to previous hideous levels before the pain started.

I would actually fear for my fingers if I smacked her anywhere near her teeth!
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post #7 of 31 Old 12-17-2010, 04:10 PM
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I had a mare that bit and I actually bit her back. I can't beleive I did that but she got me right on my hip and it hurt so bad it brought tears to my eyes so I grabbed her face and bit her nose. Hard. She never bit me again!

Have they tried mare magic or something like that on her yet?

"Be a best friend, tell the truth, and overuse I love you
Go to work, do your best, don't outsmart your common sense
Never let your prayin knees get lazy
And love like crazy"
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post #8 of 31 Old 12-17-2010, 04:15 PM
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Thats why you smack her on the cheek. And after getting a little more information, honestly when I was boarding my Thoroughbred, a new neighbor got put next to her, on the gate side of her pen, so I had to walk my horse right next to her neighbor to get her out of her stall, (pipe corrals not barn), and he would lunge at her, even with hot wire up, so I got to carrying a dressage whip with me, because nothing else was working, and one day, he decided to go after her, and smacked him as hard as I could on his chest, (I was outside the stall though so he couldn't get me in retaliation), and he tried one more time a couple days later, met with the same reaction, and never tried it again. At least not when I was around. I much prefer being nice and working with a horse, but I have to agree with Farmpony and kitten, make sure that it is absolutely not a pain issue, and then safely really get after her, because she will only get more dangerous the longer she's allowed by anyone to be that way. I use the least amount of force or pressure necessary to get the horse to do what I want, but if the small stuff doesn't work, then I'm not afraid to get bigger and meaner, because I can't afford to get hurt, nor can I afford to have a horse that would hurt others just trying to do their job. It may take standing outside the stall or pasture or whatever, and getting after her to begin with so she can't hurt you, til she realizes that trying to go after you is getting her nothing but a smack, and an inability to get back at you afterwards. Hopefully others who have maybe experienced similar stuff can give you better ideas.
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post #9 of 31 Old 12-17-2010, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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Not as far as I'm aware although shes just a horrid horse ALL the time, its got no relation to her seasons at all (we've charted it previously).
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post #10 of 31 Old 12-17-2010, 04:26 PM
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If she were my horse I would give her a one way trip to Canada. It's too dangerous to have a horse like that around.

There's nothing like the Rockies in the springtime... Nothing like the freedom in the air... And there ain't nothing better than draggin calves to the fire and there's nothing like the smell of burning hair. -Brenn Hill
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