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post #101 of 108 Old 07-18-2019, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ApuetsoT View Post
went from pleasant to scary fast. HATED turning him out. Putting his blankets on was a nightmare. He bit me once so I punched him so hard he broke his halter (turned out last for a reason...). Took every tool to get him to walk quietly when he finally got outdoor turnout again.
Oh the poor horse! As horrible as it is to think of those who NEVER get turned out, imagine, to be imprisoned in solitary confinement, after experiencing what life is about!!
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post #102 of 108 Old 07-18-2019, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mmshiro View Post
I really thought I cleared that up. Abuse comes in when the definition of success becomes skewed towards trophies, rather than partnership with the horse. When beginner and intermediate riders only see that recognition comes with trophies, trophies is what they'll go after. If they saw that recognition comes with ethical training, the mindset would shift.

I did not say lower-level riders emulate bad practices they observe. I said that lower-level riders slip into bad practices because their definition of being a "winner" does not include good practices, but only being the fastest, the most high-stepping, etc. Applying ethical practices in keeping and training of horses has to become part of the definition of success in equestrian sports, so even people who are not intrinsically motivated to do right by the horse will be induced to apply them. But only people who are already successful by current standards can guide such a shift, because they're the ones who are being emulated, admired, and listened to.
Fair enough, I see what you're trying to say.

I guess it's hard for me to paint the whole horse show world with a broad brush. That it is all about the buckles, ribbons and checks. I find it disheartening some people have that attitude towards horse shows and come to find out they have never been or tried.

Don't get me wrong, I love to win! But I am not going to sacrifice my horse to do so and I know more people in my boat than not.
The people I try to associate myself are the ones you ask, "how'd you do at the show/rodeo?"
"Didn't draw a check but my horse worked good."
And I am happy for that person, that's winning too.
It is about goal setting and achieving for me. It is an awesome feeling when my horses and I are working together well and then anyone has shown knows keeping together while in town showcasing it is a bonus!
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post #103 of 108 Old 07-18-2019, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jaydee View Post
I also havenít seen anyone on this thread wanting to abolish all competition, I donít believe that I even hinted at it.
My point is, from small acorns great oak trees grow and when anyone starts to knock a sport because a few people behave badly in it things have a nasty habit of snowballing.
Iím not seeing where whataboutism comes into it at all.
Endurance is getting a lot of flack right now because of the bad practices that are going on in it.
I could say I hate Endurance because of that but I donít because most of those involved treat their horses really well
Joe Public, who have never even sat on a horse donít know that though. They only hear the negatives and they have the power to make a lot of noise.
I would like to see more done by the governing bodies but I donít feel that alienating the people who compete and do everything they can to take good care of their horses is the right way to go about it
Endurance itself is not getting a lot of flack right now. What is getting a lot of flack is the clearly abusive practice in international FEI Endurance competition perpetrated by one specific area, Group Seven, the Middle East, where running drugged horses to death has been proven at the highest levels. The AERC (US Endurance association) has withdrawn in protest from the FEI because of its ineffectual response to these events which have been ongoing for years. The AERC has topflight standards for horse care and enforces them.

If you want to see more done by governing bodies, what exactly would you suggest that wouldn't alienate the people who compete? I ask because this question is extremely difficult to answer. Look at horse racing in the US -- has 'self-policing' worked real great? Would mandating drug testing by government-paid veterinarians of every horse just before entering the starting gate risk 'alienating the competitors'? What I think is going to happen to US TB racing is more horses will die and die and die until the outrage of Joe Public outlaws racing entirely. Because the insiders have too much invested and are too insular to do anything but resist change. The same is happening with Big Lick. They refused to change, just doubled down, flouted or evaded all the laws meant to control the abuse, and now they are a dwindling dying sport, a tiny remnant of its glory days.

Unless there are rational rules with teeth in them, there will be no change other than people voting with their feet.
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post #104 of 108 Old 07-18-2019, 07:59 PM
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I think some people think different about horses than I do, or anyone on here does. Some people donít really see who a horse is. They donít know a horse has feelings and opinions. (Oh, please donít accuse me of anthropomorphism. I know. I do. I donít care who doesnít like it.)

So, born with a competitive spirit, if you didnít empathize with a horse you wouldnít care how you won if you won.

Now, we cannot change how people look at the world. I donít think those people are usually successful. They lack a connection and understanding that would take them to the top.

I do understand what you are saying @mmshiro , that some people will blindly follow others to feel good about themselves. Trainers who are doing the best in a sport arenít teaching others. However, being a good horseman and a good human teacher are two totally differing things.

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post #105 of 108 Old 07-18-2019, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mmshiro View Post
I don't think that is true. Motorcycles are toys just like horses. Some people drive them on the track to win a medal, more people drive them to Starbucks or into the country, and polish the chrome on the weekends. I think the number of people who enjoy the activity for its own sake, or to also compete, by far outweighs the number of people who are only in it to compete.
You picked a good comparison, my son is motorcycle mechanic. If motorcycles were only ridden at home and out of view, way less people would think of getting one. I know this for a fact, seen a lady i know at a gas station while we were leathered up and riding, she said that looks fun. Year later, she & her hubby have a Harley and she is wearing leathers similar to mine, lol.
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post #106 of 108 Old 07-19-2019, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Avna View Post

Those things I mentioned may or may not be "perfectly normal"

Please go back and read your own post. YOU SAID those things ARE perfectly normal in the sport of barrel racing. Not "may or may not". And that is specifically what bothered me.

So which is it? Are you changing your statement?

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post #107 of 108 Old 07-19-2019, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beau159 View Post
Please go back and read your own post. YOU SAID those things ARE perfectly normal in the sport of barrel racing. Not "may or may not". And that is specifically what bothered me.

So which is it? Are you changing your statement?
I would change my statement but I can't talk about it any more.
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post #108 of 108 Old 07-21-2019, 10:28 AM
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Thread has run its course so is being closed

Just winging it is not a plan
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