Justify - postive drug test - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 28 Old 09-16-2019, 11:38 AM
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Glad to see you post Aubie. Missing the action in General. It's just not the same.
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post #12 of 28 Old 09-16-2019, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aubie View Post
The Santa Anita Derby was 4 weeks before so even if this hay weed had helped, it wasn't helping then.
I have no issue with Justify. He ran clean in all the Triple Crown races per those drug tests. However, my issue is the seeming cover-up that made the issue after the SA Derby disappear. He should have been DQ'd due to the positive drug test, at least from my understanding of how positive tests work. But instead the whole thing was quietly not mentioned. And then the rules are suddenly changed in a closed-door session, after the fact. If nobody is doing anything underhanded, why was all of that not made public?



If the weed is such an issue and horses are always coming up positive, why did a change not happen before as a result of all the other positives? Just seems very coincidental to me. Again, nothing to do with the merits of the horse, but the rules.
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post #13 of 28 Old 09-16-2019, 01:57 PM
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I am not being a smarty pants Phantom- I have always enjoyed your posts. But to me if it really where a cover up we would have never heard a peep. Was it sloppy? Unprofessional? A bad Look? Absolutely. Because of this they finally got around to changing the wording/rules.

It's lazy at best. But not totally unexpected. All the little fiefdoms in racing run their kingdoms like it's their home. This time company saw the dirty dishes.

But they need to be more aware. They need to get their head in the game. It won't happen but we need someone to unite the kingdoms and not only put up a defense, but go on the offensive.

I am not naive about racing. There are real problems and yes real drug use. And not just the old argument about Lasix. And there are things about Baffert I don't care for.
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post #14 of 28 Old 09-16-2019, 04:21 PM
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Justify is a monster. I giggled at everyone saying he was done after the Preakness and that without the mud he wouldn't have won. I told my husband 'I think he won the Derby and Preakness on class and he doesn't like the off track; if he gets a fast track in the Belmont, nobody will even touch him and he'll win cruising in a hand ride. And he did. I don't think we'll see his likes again for a very long time, if ever. I wish they'd have raced him at four as he really matured and grew and he's a picture of a horse-- all balance and power and I think he would have proved his naysayers wrong. Given a different time period, Justify would be a legend alongside Citation and Secretariat and War Admiral.

I'm not a huge fan of Baffert or either horse's connections, but you can't deny that American Pharoah and Justify weren't beautifully conditioned and presented at peak form for their TC bids. Baffert's also not dumb enough to drug his TC horses. There's pretty strong evidence that some Triple Crown winners in the distant past WERE run 'hopped up' (Sir Barton, for one) but I don't think Justify was. Tests have improved. Every test result shows that the scopolamine was from hay-- that's why the initial urine test was followed by a blood test which showed it as a non-story.

Last edited by SilverMaple; 09-16-2019 at 04:35 PM.
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post #15 of 28 Old 09-16-2019, 04:35 PM
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I know we won't see anything top him. He broke Apollos curse so that is out. A horse would have to be undefeated, take them all the way around all three races and break Secretariats times. That is just never going to happen. Oh and set the fastest opening fractions by a winner in the history of the Kentucky Derby. Nope.

I was saddened somewhat to see him retired. But I understood it. I know people said it was about the money, but I really don't believe it. Racing needs a good Scat Daddy in the shed. And I think he will turn out very similar to Medaglia d'Oro. Produce special horses with great speed, in both males and females, and produce runners on dirt and turf. I hope for a Winx paring.
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post #16 of 28 Old 09-16-2019, 04:39 PM
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I agree. I understand why he was retired-- just too big of a risk to run him anymore given the pedigree he carries, but man, I think he would have been something very, very special given another season at the track. I'm glad to see American Pharoah's babies seem to be turning out nicely with good looks and stellar temperaments that will net them good homes even if they don't turn out to be speedsters on the track, and I hope the same for Justify. Given the blue-blooded mares parading into their breeding sheds, I would expect nothing less. My money is on AP being a superstar as a broodmare sire.

One does have to give credit to Baffert for winning the Triple Crown with two very different horses with very different builds, temperaments, and running styles. That's a training feat that takes talent, whether you like the guy or not. AP is very much the classic Thoroughbred, beautifully poised and balanced and runs like he's on a rail with a sweeping, efficient stride all in a very sweet, gentle, calm demeanor with a tendency to take care of himself and do what is asked. Justify is all power and gobbles up ground for lunch, but he's hot-tempered and aggressive and all of that size and muscle and speed on a still-growing body with a teenage attitude has a lot of potential to end badly. AP broke the Triple Crown drought, but I think the training job for Justify was by far harder to get right.


One of my friends' grandfather is 101. He watched Justify's Belmont, turned to my friend, and said "You never saw Man O' War, but that big red colt is as close as they've come since, and that includes Secretariat. I never thought I'd see another one like Man O' War, but I just did." Not a bad accolade by a gentleman who worked on the tracks for 50 years and trained horses his whole life.

Last edited by SilverMaple; 09-16-2019 at 04:49 PM.
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post #17 of 28 Old 09-16-2019, 05:11 PM
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I missed his maiden but caught his second race , an Allowance. My eyes popped out. :22 :44 in the slop and down the backstretch Mike never asked, just as easy as could be.

I am also looking forward to some others. Arrogate for one. And RunHappy. Curious if he was just a freak or if he can pass it on. The commercial on NYRA coverage of Seth Hancock saying we put him in stall #1 for a reason while cutting to a short of the stall door with all those name plates. Sends chills.
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post #18 of 28 Old 09-16-2019, 05:16 PM
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This isn't the exact commercial but includes the shot of the door. It's a little older. His offspring are being sold. For an average of $400,000. For a $25,000 fee, not bad at all

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post #19 of 28 Old 09-16-2019, 06:09 PM
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A local family with an interest in horses and money to burn sends a handful of mares to Kentucky every year to be put in foal. If the babies make it to the track, great. If not, they are nice hunters/jumpers/eventers. She sent two mares to Runhappy this past spring and is really excited about those foals. She passed over some much more highly-touted stallions after seeing him. We shall see.
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post #20 of 28 Old 09-16-2019, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aubie View Post
It's lazy at best. But not totally unexpected. All the little fiefdoms in racing run their kingdoms like it's their home. This time company saw the dirty dishes.

But they need to be more aware. They need to get their head in the game. It won't happen but we need someone to unite the kingdoms and not only put up a defense, but go on the offensive.

I am not naive about racing. There are real problems and yes real drug use. And not just the old argument about Lasix.
The bolded part is my biggest issue with the whole thing. If the people in charge can't get their heads out of their butts and figure out how to not look like idiots (at best, conspirators at worst), how is racing going to survive?

The argument about Lasix is like barefoot vs shoes - endless because nobody is going to change their opinion. But at least that is an up-front issue. Personally I find drug testing somewhat laughable, as only the behind-the-times people are using stuff that will test. The unscrupulous are already on to the next thing that officials don't even know to test for yet. Sadly, I don't know how you fix that as even a zero-tolerance drug policy won't deter cheaters. But the fact there is testing at least shows the industry is trying.

But when non-horsey friends ask me how come there is so much corruption in racing, how come people don't care about the horses, etc I am more and more at a loss how to answer. Because it sure doesn't look very good to the general public..
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