Kill buyers - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 56 Old 02-28-2020, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by carshon View Post
The horse industry is glutted - whether people believe it or not. And the biggest issue I see is lack of training. A well trained horse is usually worth something...
Thank you for pointing this out. As someone mentioned earlier, the Morgan people have a a big FB network, and man, do they get aggressive and downright nasty if anyone questions the role they play in perpetuating the kill pen industry by "bailing" registered Morgans. But so often on these rescue Facebook pages, I see posts offering horses in their teens that are barely halter broke. Not just needing a tuneup, but legitly over a decade old with no training whatsoever. Why? Why would you have a horse and allow that to happen? Why would you breed a horse with no plan to do anything with it? Why would you take a barely halter broken horse and spend years breeding it and then dump it with no skills? That makes me so angry.

@AnitaAnne , this is one area in which my only personal answer has been just to harden my heart and look away from the daily posts pleading for bail money. I am pretty confident three horses is also my limit, and I guess I feel good because my 3rd, Maggie, is a "forever free lease" to help out a recent college grad who was having trouble affording her. I don't think Maggie was in any risk of ending up at an auction, but by giving her a long term home, it definitely made things a little easier for her owner and she is happy as a clam in retirement. If/when at some point one of my two retirees goes on to greener pastures, my hope would be to find another local person who has an oldie who needs a cushy retirement home, to avoid starting that trip to the auction pipeline at all.

That said, it's so hard though to see those sad, sad faces. And, I do know a few people who have ended up with a wonderful riding horse by making a smart "rescue," so the stories don't always end badly. But I guess I come down on the side of the people saying that participating in any way with the kill buyers, rather than intervening a step ahead of them, just perpetuates the system. It sucks no matter how you look at it.
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post #22 of 56 Old 02-28-2020, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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I feel your pain.

I donít know that anyone who loves horses couldnít feel sorrow and frustration when they look at these sites.

I donít think it helps that the cost of euthanasia is really expensive and that leaves people with horses that, for some reason, they canít keep any more, resort to selling them to a dealer.
Dealers will hang on to good ones for a while then put them through an auction if they donít sell. The youngsters and the Ďno hopersí tend to go straight to auction.

You can only do what you can do. You canít save them all.

Donate to a genuine horse rescue when youíve got spare cash maybe?

I can only give you the same advice that Iíve had to give myself - stop looking at those sites.
Iíve had to do the same with dog rescue sites.
You are right. Completely. I guess the difference with dogs is they are humanely PTS, and horses frequently aren't.

Amazingly, when reading the prices at the "boarding barn" that will pick up these horses and hold them until pickup, I saw a cost for euthanasia listed. $115. Wonder what they do with the horses??? My costs, (with burial) here are much higher than that.

May be quite a few that end up never leaving there.


Anytime I hear someone say they can't afford to pts an animal, I say you can't afford to have an animal if you can't afford the medical bills.


Which brings me to the issue that medical costs for 5 equines could get really high.
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post #23 of 56 Old 02-28-2020, 11:11 AM
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Itís not always true that a well trained horse wonít end up with a meat buyer.

Weíve bought some really good horses and ponies from auction in the U.K. over the years that we were only bidding against the meat buyers for. Most of them had little quirks that could put some people off.

My little paint mare was bought by a dealer from a kill pen and then sold to me. I donít know what someone had done to her to upset her attitude to people but in the past sheíd had a good owner whoíd put in all the training. It took a while to get her trust in humans back and many people wouldnít have wanted to even try.

If someone has lost their job and run out of money then the horse is often the first thing to go and when the markets flooded there arenít enough buyers to go round.
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Just winging it is not a plan
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post #24 of 56 Old 02-28-2020, 11:15 AM
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minimum 6 week quarantine IMHO Are the biting flies out in your area - you need 250 yds minimum for quarantine for EIA. Be prepared for strangles, respiratory viruses, worms, ringworm and lice. You may be buying a very large vet bill.



as to why horses end up there in the first place, some are someone's problem either crippled or crazy, some are cull from foal mills, some are a legal issue like divorce, death or back board, some are owners who had no choice - horse had to go now, and some are owners who just got sick and tired of dealing with the tire kickers and fruit bats that shop in the low to mid price range market. I have found some genuine diamonds in the rough at auctions and some lumps of coal.



good luck if you go thru with it
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post #25 of 56 Old 02-28-2020, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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minimum 6 week quarantine IMHO Are the biting flies out in your area - you need 250 yds minimum for quarantine for EIA. Be prepared for strangles, respiratory viruses, worms, ringworm and lice. You may be buying a very large vet bill.



as to why horses end up there in the first place, some are someone's problem either crippled or crazy, some are cull from foal mills, some are a legal issue like divorce, death or back board, some are owners who had no choice - horse had to go now, and some are owners who just got sick and tired of dealing with the tire kickers and fruit bats that shop in the low to mid price range market. I have found some genuine diamonds in the rough at auctions and some lumps of coal.



good luck if you go thru with it
Forgot about EIA. Lyme Ds would be another issue. The other ones I could deal with easily enough, especially if they went to the vet first.

Cannot do 250 yards at my place.
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post #26 of 56 Old 02-28-2020, 11:31 AM
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This is how Daughter ended up with Sally and me, Outback through Sally. She gets to looking at the kill pen groups on FB and then her heart starts to hurt... and while I applaud her compassion, it's led to some really poor decisions in horse buying. A lot of the videos she shows me of some fancy bred AQHA or APHA horses... youngsters and mature horses... have something going on that they're lamed up or badly sickle hocked, something like that. Usually it's the slightest gimp on the back end, one side or the other.

Some are just broodies getting older and at the end of their usefulness as baby makers for a more industrial breeding operation.

Some are retired.

I saw two BLM mustangs at one of the ones here in my state... no one had bothered to gentle them down enough to get the rope and tag off their neck. It was grown into the skin, the manes were matted, they were filthy, bags of bones, hooves grown out so long they were curling. For those two, I contacted the BLM agent that helped us with adopting Whiskey. I never heard what was done about it - sometimes people buy three strike horses and take them right to the auction or kill pen, and the BLM folks will tell you if that's why you're there to adopt or buy a three strike horse, you need to go on down the road, they don't want you there... but I'm sure people lie every day about their intentions. (There's also someone somewhere that I can't say because I'm not going to dox them... but T, my friend got a call to help a neighbor who knew nothing about horses go pick up two 'rescue' horses from an actual 'horse rescue' in N Texas. T gets there... they are BLM MUSTANGS and not even titled, wild wild wild... still dragging lead ropes and wearing halters. Person was trying to sell them as rescues and said no title needed. Uh. YEAH. Yeah you do. They were also reported by us. Something must have been done because the CL ads for the 'rescue' vanished about a week later and never turned up again.)

Back to the Kill Pens - most are fake these days. They have no intention of shipping, and they will cull out the Good Ones with papers, and sell them separately for huge sums of money. The ones they don't want get ran through their 'kill pen' groups on social media, and then they set up bail for them - you pay X amount (usually 60% or so) and then they talk other people into donating the difference by tricking them into believing this horse is about to be shipped to Mexico and endure unspeakable horrors.


Sally came from the real deal. Daughter said they rolled in and there were lots crammed with babies, yearlings, pregnant mares (Can't ship preggo mares though). Arabians, TWH, QH, TB, you name it... I think there were some appys too. Said it was the saddest thing she'd ever seen.

"We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that death will tremble to take us."
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post #27 of 56 Old 02-28-2020, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jaydee View Post
Itís not always true that a well trained horse wonít end up with a meat buyer.
This is very true. For most of these horses, its a case of just getting older. I saw a really nice mare on there first, very well trained, 15 yrs old and 16H. He was only asking $975 for her, and she was shown ridden on the video. Really nice walk and trot, nice swinging tail. He said trained dressage, hunter-jumper, all that stuff. Sound.

The timing was off, as her deadline was Friday and I saw her on a Thursday afternoon. Got a sick feeling in my stomach when her video vanished...that is when they are gone. No video, no horse.

I would have bought her. Pretty chestnut too. Can't understand someone sending a horse like that to auction with no reserve, giving the KB the opportunity to take this horse to slaughter, when she could have been a great learner horse. On that one, I blame the seller for putting her in that situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee View Post
If someone has lost their job and run out of money then the horse is often the first thing to go and when the markets flooded there arenít enough buyers to go round.
The markets are flooded. Very hard to sell even well trained horses, once they get over 15yrs. I just think the supply FAR exceeds the demand.

Not very many young people riding anymore. It is expensive and time consuming, and most parents barely have enough time as it is.


The culture is changing, even here in the country. Farms are being turned into 3-5 acre estate lots with McMansions on them.
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post #28 of 56 Old 02-28-2020, 12:03 PM
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@AnitaAnne - not necessarily true on being shipped just because the vid vanished. I've found locally that's because they were sold separate from the FB group... they WANT you to believe she shipped though.

Personally, if I just wanted a pasture potato to pour money into and give them a soft landing (I have one - AJ), I'd buy one from someone that just wanted the old fart or old heifer out of their pasture, but had a good nature. I'd cut the middle man out. That's the ONLY way to put a hurt on the fake kill buyers, IMO.

BTW, Texas and Louisiana has been shutting the fake ones down. They've taken a strong stance against the fake kill pens because ones that don't sell have been known to be left to starve and die, but also because of the fraud inherent to the fake kill pens.

"We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that death will tremble to take us."
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post #29 of 56 Old 02-28-2020, 12:31 PM
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went to an auction with a friend once. my goal was to talk him out of any horse he wanted to bid on

while there heard 2 ladies talking one was helping her friend and said she's bought some at auction 1 out of 5 turn out to be something decent. most of the "riding" horses were going for 1,000 that means spending 5K on the purchase to get a "decent" horse plus time, vet, feed, and farrier

we only saw 2 in the kill pen come through the ring before we got the heck out of there but at least those 2 you wouldn't even dream of buying to try and rehab
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post #30 of 56 Old 02-28-2020, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AtokaGhosthorse View Post
@AnitaAnne - not necessarily true on being shipped just because the vid vanished. I've found locally that's because they were sold separate from the FB group... they WANT you to believe she shipped though.

Personally, if I just wanted a pasture potato to pour money into and give them a soft landing (I have one - AJ), I'd buy one from someone that just wanted the old fart or old heifer out of their pasture, but had a good nature. I'd cut the middle man out. That's the ONLY way to put a hurt on the fake kill buyers, IMO.

BTW, Texas and Louisiana has been shutting the fake ones down. They've taken a strong stance against the fake kill pens because ones that don't sell have been known to be left to starve and die, but also because of the fraud inherent to the fake kill pens.
This isn't a fake KP, its the real deal. She was sold or shipped. He doesn't keep them longer than the deadline, no exceptions. He only shows ridden the ones that were ridden at the auction.

I dearly hope she was sold instead of sent to slaughter. Her video when down Thursday night, so hopefully she was spared.

We had a local KP here, and I visited his place a few times. He had drivers going out daily to slaughter, and drivers arriving with auction horses. He had a pretty nice set up with a round pen in the center on the main barn, and a separate barn with high dollar horses. Then he had a couple of paddocks with a few of the older horses in them. No over crowding like at some places.

I looked at a very well broke black QH gelding, 12 or 13 at the time he had him priced at $1000 and I was looking for kids horse. We went to try him out and the owner saw he had a bowed tendon. Wouldn't let us ride and that horse was sold to slaughter. The guy had some integrity, in refusing to sell a damaged horse as a riding horse.

Looked at a WB gelding there priced at 25k. Had a snotty nose so I didn't even try him. I couldn't see paying that for a horse from a KB. Now I don't have that kind of money! Divorce and career change will do that to a person...


Point being, some KB do have a sense of honesty, but still they are there to sell the horse, not keep horses. Its a business. They don't care where the horse goes.


This one does not appear to be connected to any rescue group, and lists multiple hauler on his site.
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