Looking at a Paint gelding! - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 10-31-2013, 06:46 AM Thread Starter
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Looking at a Paint gelding!

Soo...I would like you guys' opinion on this horse.
He's a 14yo reg'd Paint gelding from Montana (in PA now). Horse use to run barrels and then this guy bought him and...he got FAT. He also turned into a complete bronc from what we were told.

So, my friend Drew (pictured) and I went out to look at him and the other two ponies this guy has. I swear..these ponies just need shot and buried. I honestly can't imagine what would help them. They're 3 years old, look like what Endiku's Kenzie looked like with some weight (malnourished/stunted), were dead lame, foundered on all four hooves multiple times, AND I think they probably have Cushings.
Cowboy on the other hand is FAT. When I say fat, I'm talking an easy 500# overweight. All the weight has shifted his front legs, which are now bowed out and toed in. Was told he has arthritis, but he walks/trots sound (without a flexion).

But, onto the good. His personality is to DIE for. He's such a baby and his groundmanners are impeccable. At some point, he must've been trained up to the eyeballs. While he would NOT lunge at all, someone trained him to ALWAYS face his handler.
And one thing that I actually loved about him was his spook. The tree falling scared me more than him, which in turn scared him. I was standing in front of him talking to the owner and my friend (half and half on the horse if we decide to get him) and I about jumped out of my skin, he went to jumo forward away from the tree but respected that I was there and went sideways around me and spun to look at where the tree fell from behind me. Would've been better had he not spooked at all, but he didn't have a bit of attention on anything but me while the lead was in my hand, both his ears were always on me.

But anywho..
He's a good 500# overweight.
14 years old, going on 15
Unbroke, needs restarted.
Great ground manners.
Supposedly great with kids.
Has wonky front legs because of weight.

Now, we're looking for either a gaming project or a trail/kids/4h horse. I think he has great potential as the latter, the prospect...well, not so much, lol.

What would you do? What woukd you be willing to pay? We're located in Western PA near Pittsburgh.

And pictures..lol. Not great confo shots, but we were mainly focusing on everything else, and these are only screenshots.


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post #2 of 13 Old 10-31-2013, 07:33 AM
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Well...he isn't a bronc if you were sitting on him with only a lead shank and halter and he is standing quietly in those pictures...

As for being 500 over...he is overweight yes, not sure how much.
He by your description has fat deposits, aka...cellulite...
His legs are bowed out towed in... bone structure doesn't change because of fat. Look at a fat, truly fat person...the legs are straight, the fat just protrudes everywhere surrounding the bones in the leg.

If this horse is truly bowed out and towed in...you need a vet and PPE done to see what damage there is to the skeletal structure of the horse. You also need a wellness exam as to why this horse is so "fat"... there are so many things you could be getting into you are not being clued into.
The weather has recently changed and COPD horses are breathing better, he could also have metabolic issues. His nostrils are flaring an awful lot in both pictures and it is hard to see his barrel but almost can see the muscle line shape of a COPD/heaves horse even through the fat...it could just be a shadow too, but IDK...
They say he is arthritic... with a twisted leg and joints I would suspect he aches too...but may not be lame, yet!

I find it strange that the guy bought a proved barrel horse from Montana, brought it home to Pa. and then just tossed it into a field to get in this condition...
Good barrel horses, especially one needing to be transported across much of the nation would be worth some $$$$.... maybe there are other reasons he is standing in a field doing nothing...

Go with your eyes open wide to this horses faults... he has many seen by you already. Remember that there will be 2 of you trying to ride him and make him into something again. Can the horse withstand that? Can you withstand the bills if he goes or stays "sour/bronc", goes lame due to his conformation or underlying "fat" issues....

The fact the guy has 2 ponies/horses, {ponies are notorious easy keepers}, usually out with him and they are "skinny", only 2 years of age raises a red flag to me....something isn't right!

Don't get suckered in....
On top of that... you say this is a gaming prospect or for a child/4H/trail horse...
Do you seriously want a "bronc" with your kids aboard????


... I would be doing some serious thinking on the subject.
In my opinion, if the legs are truly as you say, the horse is a "bronc"...
I would walk away and leave him in that pasture...
I also think you need to think about if you buy with the intention of re-selling, those bent legs and toeing in...big issues with many...as in very tough to sell.
sorry...


jmo...
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post #3 of 13 Old 10-31-2013, 07:44 AM
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I cannot stress enough on what the above poster said. I can tell you really like this horse, but don't get suckered in because you feel bad and you like his personality. I've been on this boat. You'll likely end up with a horse that has massive problems and you will end up unhappy. There are plenty of great horses out there. What is your price range if you don't mind me asking?
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post #4 of 13 Old 10-31-2013, 08:02 AM Thread Starter
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Noo, the ponies aren't skinny, they're relatively fat as well, but the way they grew, they look as though they were stunted.

The picture with Drew on him was after he spun about 20 circles after he jumped on. But that's also to say, we were TOLD he was a bronc, though he didn't buck while we were there. I guess the last three people on him (years ago) got thrown and he has since sat in the field with no attention. He apparently bought Cowboy because he was good with kids and his daughters wanted one. This man honestly doesn't know much about horses, he just has too much money. Six years ago his kids lost interest and both the ponies and Cowboy have sat with nothing done but vet/farrier work.

I see what you're saying about the fat not changing bone structure, but in person, you can literally see the fat pushing out his elbows and turning his leg in.

And the ponies I actually think SHOULD be horses that were stunted, they don't have the general build I would expect to see on any pony-type. They look like minis, but about 13hh.

This horse is not a gaming prospect, he is a kids/4h horse prospect. We're looking for one or the other.

He's asking $500 for him, but he wants all three of them gone because his kids have no interest anymore, and he's not really a horse person. He ssid if we could get rid of/take the ponies, we can have him for free. He wants them to go to a good home, but he doesn't want to put up a free ad for fear of them going to the meat truck.

And with his weight, I figure if we can take him for free, we can always give him away too if no one will buy, or put him down if he's too lame. That's only the cost of renting a backhoe to bury him.
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post #5 of 13 Old 10-31-2013, 08:24 AM
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He is not 500 pounds overweight. He is a thick horse...maybe 100-175 pounds overweight. Not 500.

And fat wouldn't change bone. Its soft and not physically strong enough to do anything.

Those legs are what they are. Not likely to change...nor were they changed in the first place.

Pass. He is too much for a child to handle...
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post #6 of 13 Old 10-31-2013, 08:30 AM
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I would either get a vet to look at all as it now sounds like they all have some sort of issue.

2 year olds... not much saddle time so that is a time issue and training issue for you to deal with or you take them to the sale and dispose of them I guess instead of him...hopefully they would get bought by someone other than the meat man. If you keep them, there are no guarantees with them either for $$ returned versus what you put out.
The paint horse...no way without a vet look-see.
He spun with your friend on, has dumped numerous riders in his past.
He has a learned trick and one that is not nice and can rear the ugly head again and again.
Maybe he has a true pain issue with his fat causing his body to re-conform... it just makes no sense.

What makes me scratch my head.... for a horse who is basically tossed in a field... he is mane pulled, appears clipped and sleek coated from the pictures... all things that don't quite make sense. For someone who knows "little to nothing".... IDK.

Oh, your thought about a backhoe.... On LI, euthanizing a horse and disposal of the carcass in the landfill will cost you well over a $1000.00.
Besides the money to "buy" him, if he doesn't work out you need to get rid of him and only count on putting $$ out of your pocket in this economy...no one needs or wants a horse that is unusable...lawn ornaments of his size still cost to keep them pretty lawn ornaments.
Just be prepared if you do this for it to cost you more than you realize and you still not have a horse for the kids to ride.
Or, you take him to the sale...he will be on the meat truck. Meat buyers love fat horses especially...they make the weight loads easier met.

If you though put that $500 and say the $1000 together, for $1500.00, you would have a real nice riding horse safe for the kids who could do 4H, games, trails... and even you could hop on and enjoy. You also wouldn't be saddled with finding homes for 2 stunted looking animals
just another way to look at it...

The more I think about it and read your first post and response...
I would not walk but run away from all of these. You would do better to ask the local farrier or vet for a recommendation of what horses are available in your area that meet your needs and pocketbook.
I would not put or trust my children on a horse with this guys reputation...look how he was with a experienced rider and adult with greater strength and ability...sorry, think not. This is not a childrens trusted horse!

Good luck in your decision process and Happy Horse Hunting.
jmo...
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post #7 of 13 Old 10-31-2013, 03:48 PM
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To me buying a 14 year old, with possible lameness issues and behavioural ones that needs retraining all for the purpose of turning him into a kids mount... well I just don't see why you'd want to buy. At that age you can pick up pretty affordable, reliable trail horses some which are already good with kids. Even if he is free there is still all the time you're putting in, and upkeep. Plus even if he is sound and you work out his under saddle issues, just because he is nice on the ground doesn't mean he will be suitable as a child's mount.
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post #8 of 13 Old 10-31-2013, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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I just wanna say, I have absolutely no interest in the 3 yesr olds, none at all. Neither does my friend.

We're looking for a cheap project. We do not want a horse that's already broke and proven as SOMETHING, even a trail horse.

His mane isn't pulled and he sure as heck isn't clipped. Yes, he spun because his head was being flexed as Drew jumped on, he may very well have stood like he did when I was standing near the next time I wasn't recording when he mounted again.

We're also allowed to bury our horses both at my boarding and his personal barn, so there is no landfill cost. And a bullet sure doesn't cost $1k.

Personally, there's no way we're going to pay $500 for him, that is just what the man said he wanted out of him. We're also not looking to spend more than a few hundred on a horse (total, NOT individually). We can both train, we're not looking for another horse we can just hop on. He has two of them and I have one.

Honestly, the way this horse acted, I honestly think the people that have been on this horse rode harshly and that's probably why he threw them. He wanted to please, he just didn't know exactly what was being asked with some things.

Sure, he may not make a kids horse, and that's okay. It'd be okay if he was just a trail horse for an advanced beginner or something similar, if we can get him cheaper than $500, which very well may happen if we decide to get him.

We're looking to putting time into a horse, we have until next August until we'd even be trying to sell.

Which, I am listening, but I'm also trying to clear certain things up. You're assuming I want the 3 year olds and we're assuming what we were told is completely true without any exaggeration...Which, after seeing him, I honestly believe it's exaggerated.

But yes, we would be getting a vet check done, and the owner might be willing to pay for it himself (like said, he has too much money).
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post #9 of 13 Old 10-31-2013, 07:03 PM
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Don't mean to post again so soon, but I will anyway. You're going to be hard pressed selling a 15 year old with poor leg conformation, if you're looking at him as a resale. Even as a quiet trail horse. It can be hard selling a horse that age even with good leg conformation. Most people I know (me included) wouldn't look at buying a horse over the age of 12. Just poor resale values later down the track.

If you're going to be putting hours of work in and retraining with the possible intention of resale I'd look at getting something younger than that.
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post #10 of 13 Old 10-31-2013, 10:22 PM
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Well, Youve been given alot of great advice. But it seems like you have your mind already made up and have on rose-colored glasses for this horse.

Good luck with your decision, but with a horse like this, Your re-sale value is not worth the training and food, vet bills, farrier work your going to be putting into him. You'll lose money on him.

Pass and find something better for the same price. Cheap horses are a dime a dozen right now.
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