My mare mounts other mares - Page 4 - The Horse Forum
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post #31 of 43 Old 08-14-2010, 07:32 AM
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Sorry, AC, I misunderstood your post.
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post #32 of 43 Old 08-14-2010, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MacabreMikolaj View Post
I firmly believe there is a chemical/genetic incidence occurring here that for whatever reason is messing with the levels of testosterone and estrogen effectively making the animal/human one gender on the outside and different on the inside.
Levels of testosterone and estrogen have nothing to do with sexual orientation in people: I don't see why it would be different for animals.

Most people don't realize that the endocrine system is still not well understood. Scientists are still basically guessing when it comes to explaining the correlation between sex hormones and behavior.

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Well no considering /this is getting inappropriate!/ upper primates (and dolphins) are the only other animals that will have sex for pleasur/masturbate
No, all animals have sex for pleasure. They don't know that it leads to having babies.
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post #33 of 43 Old 08-14-2010, 06:33 PM
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No, all animals have sex for pleasure. They don't know that it leads to having babies.
They don't know it leads to babies, but it's not actually pleasurable for all animals. Cats, for instance. The mating process for cats is very painful. They mate because that's what their instincts guide them to do, not because they like it. The male has to hold down the female to avoid being attacked, which the female would hardly feel the need to do if it were enjoyable. Furthermore, not all animals have sex. Birds, for instance.

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post #34 of 43 Old 08-14-2010, 06:35 PM
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ponyboy,

We had a sweet, beginner safe, broke to death gelding that we used as a teaser. How did we use him as a teaser? We gave him a shot of testosterone and waited 48 hours. After 48 hours he would walk out of his stall on his hind legs bugleing and would work a mare over and court her exactly like a stallion.

I also had a sweet, well behaved beginner pony mare who turned into a stallion (because chemically, she *was* a stallion) bugleing, striking, courting and mounting mares because of a testosterone secreting ovarian tumor.

So while the entire endocrine system may not be understood, the effects of certain hormones are pretty well documented.

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Scientists are still basically guessing when it comes to explaining the correlation between sex hormones and behavior.
I would be interested to know if you have a citation for this. While true for humans, I believe the correlation in animals is fairly well understood.
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post #35 of 43 Old 08-14-2010, 06:58 PM
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My concern with this thread, and the reason I keep posting is this:

A lot of folks have posted opinions, anthropormorphic ideas about horse's behavior and interior psychology, some moderately funny ideas about homosexuality in animals and some pointless speculation.

I do not pretend to have done extensive research into homosexuality in animals. What I do have is extensive experience with horses, period, including a long period of time working with breeding stock. Yes, I've seen geldings mount mares. Yes, I've seen geldings mount other geldings. I've seen a lot of hormonally produced bizarre behavior, too long to describe in this thread.

BUT, THE ONE AND ONLY TIME I saw a mare exhibit stallion-like sexual behavior, she had an ovarian tumor that eventually killed her.

So, can we please hold off on the rest of distracting speculation and opinion until the OP gets this mare checked by a vet? If the mare does not have an endocrine problem; please feel free to resume the entertaining conversation.

But on the very real chance this mare does have an endocrine problem, can we please hold off on tangents and sidebars that might distract the OP from a very real medical problem?
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post #36 of 43 Old 08-14-2010, 10:12 PM
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I knew a mare who was very stallion-like, all the time. Her body produced excess testosterone, but was otherwise very healthy. That being said, I think she was euthanized because she became too dangerous, which, in my opinion, has more to do wth a lack of training than a medical problem.

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post #37 of 43 Old 08-15-2010, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by riccil0ve View Post
They don't know it leads to babies, but it's not actually pleasurable for all animals.
That's true, for some female animals. Obviously mating has to be pleasurable for at least one half of the partnership or it wouldn't get done.

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Originally Posted by maura View Post
So while the entire endocrine system may not be understood, the effects of certain hormones are pretty well documented.
In animals, as you said. My point was that animals don't have a "sexual orientation." Testosterone might make a mare mount other mares, but it does not make her homosexual. That's a human concept.

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Originally Posted by maura
I would be interested to know if you have a citation for this. While true for humans, I believe the correlation in animals is fairly well understood.
I was talking about humans there. MacabreMikolaj said "animal/human." I just get tired of hearing the misconception that hormone levels have anything to do with sexual orientation.

and yes I agree, the OP needs to consult a vet.

Last edited by ponyboy; 08-15-2010 at 07:02 PM.
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post #38 of 43 Old 08-15-2010, 11:12 PM
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Do you just argue for the sake of arguing? They don't KNOW what causes homosexuality, but sex hormone levels HAS been linked in MANY cases. I'm not talking out of my *** here, I'm speaking from scientific studies. It makes the most sense, and while it may not be documented in all cases, it seems a likely x factor in many of them, in particular transgendered people. You can't tell me I'm WRONG just because YOU don't like my theory - all they HAVE are theories, they haven't exclusively ruled any one thing out (genetics, hormones, etc.) or determined any one thing to be the cause.

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Sorry maura, I agree and I'll stop discussing this.

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post #39 of 43 Old 08-16-2010, 02:38 PM
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A few threads up...birds do have sex...it is just not phallic/vaginal, (the sperm doesn't get to the ovum by Federal Express ; ) This is probably because some mate in free-fall, and you want to be able to get that done in a hurry. ; )
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post #40 of 43 Old 08-16-2010, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MacabreMikolaj View Post


Do you just argue for the sake of arguing? They don't KNOW what causes homosexuality, but sex hormone levels HAS been linked in MANY cases. I'm not talking out of my *** here, I'm speaking from scientific studies. It makes the most sense, and while it may not be documented in all cases, it seems a likely x factor in many of them, in particular transgendered people. You can't tell me I'm WRONG just because YOU don't like my theory - all they HAVE are theories, they haven't exclusively ruled any one thing out (genetics, hormones, etc.) or determined any one thing to be the cause.
You can find a study to prove just about anything if you look hard enough. There hasn't been enough research in this area yet to come to any kind of conclusion. Many people also think it "makes sense" that all women who like to work on cars are gay too. Etc. If sex hormones in the womb were the sole cause of homosexuality, there would be no sets of twins with opposing sexual orientations.

I am a transgendered person. I was attracted to women until I started taking testosterone. Since then I have been attracted to men. I'm not the only one either: It's a well-known phenomenon in the female-to-male transsexual community. As far as I know there have been no studies as to the cause, but google "gay FTM" and you will get plenty of links. Which is sufficient proof that it happens often enough. Do a little reading on those pages, and you'll find that many of these people were not attracted to men before they started taking testosterone and were quite surprised by it.

I also know a gay man who was given testosterone to "cure" him and it completely backfired (you can extrapolate as to what exactly that means). He is not the only one either. Do a little research - that kind of "therapy" was halted years ago because it does not work. Many people on both sides of the divide only wish it were that simple.

I have been involved in the queer community for years and know several people who have had their hormone levels checked (usually for other medical reasons) and none of the tests came back abnormal. I myself used to have abnormally high estrogen levels - By your logic, I should have been a very "girly" girl, yet I was anything but. It is just not that simple.
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