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new horse-abused and terrified

9K views 89 replies 31 participants last post by  TaMMa89 
#1 ·
I've started sharing a horse called Mika from a woman at my yard. Shes had her about a year I think and this is what she told me:
-she's 3
-she's unbroken
-she's hard to catch
-she was abused
-shes terrified of everything
-she has no trust in humans

I saw her in the field and I just felt some weird connection to her... I knew I had to have her!

Ive had her since last Tuesday and since then we've made remarkable progress! Yesterday it took me 20 minutes to 'catch' her. She runs away when you get a certain distance so when I was at the edge of her comfort zone I wandered backwards and forwards, gradually getting nearer, singing as I did:). Soon I just put my hand out onto her nose and she didn't even flinch
Question: if she plants her feet when I'm leading her in, how can I persaude her without force?

The first time I brought her in I tied her up and started by stepping towards her and away from her, getting nearer when she looked more relaxed and eventually her nose was on my tummy when I stepped forwards. Since then I've stroked her neck until she looks comfortable and then stroking her 3 times putting my hand down and doing it again, lessening the time between the strokes and hand down until I could put my hand up and down quickly. If she ever looks uncomfortable I go back to stepping.

I then led her around a bit ( we have a space between the 8 stables and the fence to their field) on the end of the leadrope, stopped when I stopped and walking and turning when I did. She did it lovely. She even backed up when I walked backwards!

The next few times I let her off her leadrope (it's completely safe) and allowed her to wander round while I sat down, she had a look at a few stuff and then followed me round like a lamb. Yesterday I did the same and for half an hour we walked stopped turned and even trotted without a leadrope. She did wander off to have a look a things sometimes but came straight back to me:)
Question: why was she following me like that?

Anyway, so then all the horses in the field where galloping around and her best friend came right up to the fence and she went up to the fence to say hi... then he started galloping on the other side of the fence and she started galloping on our side of the fence, crashed into a 1.3m fence, jumped over it, stumbled and galloped away... she's fine, her knee is slightly swollen though.

So anyway, thats whats happened so far:)
Does anyone have any ideas of things I can do to gain her trust? Im 13 if anyone was going to ask.
Anyone want to see her? She's a real beauty!
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#47 ·
My oh my.

Alright, pasture jumping incident aside, OP you have been given some great advice to your original questions about training with this mare- you have chosen not to heed that advice and trying to further explain your situation is not going to make others on this forum change their ultimate answer: you need help from a more experienced trainer than yourself. Someone that can show you how to handle this mare in action in the moment.

Your own opinions and beliefs on horses needs is your own thing. As most of us already know, we humans usually have to learn things the hard way. The most we can say over the Internet has been said, take it or leave it.
 
#48 ·
No, horses aren't slaves, BUT...

You pay for their medical expenses.
You pay for their food.
You put shoes on them.
You make sure their tack is comfortable.
You pay for supplements.

It's really isn't a lot to ask that they behave while we work around them. I think that is MORE then fair. Expecting good behavior and riding time isn't treating your horse like a slave. The way your thinking right now YOU are the slave to your horse.
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#49 ·
This is incredibly rude. She is a HORSE with her own mind. You can't control them. They are not yours to have. If she wanted to jump that fence then what am I meant to do? I have no buissness pulling her around by her head and keeping her away from her freedom. She was fine with me like that and a lot more happy than a horse tied up with his nose to the wall.
A foolish thing to do is think that your in control of the horse.
Your not.
Oh, boy. OP, all I can hope is that you don't really get injured badly by this horse. I don't have much more to say here other than you are putting yourself in a dangerous situation... but I guess that's your choice. Remember that.
 
#50 ·
I think some members need to cool down and take a step back
There is nothing wrong with giving fairly blunt advice out of concern for someone's welfare but I'm not seeing a lot of caring mixed in with it.
The horse may well have been abused - not our place to question that because we don't know its history - the OP knows I assume from the owner
She is working with the owner and the risks posed to the horse are hers to take and so is any decision to get a trainer involved - that is not something this OP can do because it's not her horse
I do have concerns for the OP's safety but lecturing her is not going to help - from my own experiences as a child doing risky things around horses it usually as the opposite effect
There is a Level 6 Stable Management test - there are 10 Levels plus a separate Lunge Unit in the Stable Management section
I'm going to close the thread now so we can review it
 
#51 ·
I've started sharing a horse called Mika from a woman at my yard. Shes had her about a year I think and this is what she told me:
-she's 3
-she's unbroken
-she's hard to catch
-she was abused
-shes terrified of everything
-she has no trust in humans


so, folks the OWNER said this, not the OP. the OWNER has set the idea that the horse is abused.
I saw her in the field and I just felt some weird connection to her... I knew I had to have her!

this happens. such a "connection" has been felt by most of us. it isn't always in our or the horse's best interest, but we know what that's like.

Ive had her since last Tuesday and since then we've made remarkable progress! Yesterday it took me 20 minutes to 'catch' her. She runs away when you get a certain distance so when I was at the edge of her comfort zone I wandered backwards and forwards, gradually getting nearer, singing as I did:). Soon I just put my hand out onto her nose and she didn't even flinch

not such an odd way to deal with catching a hrose that is fearful of being caught. not at all.
Question: if she plants her feet when I'm leading her in, how can I persaude her without force?

you can often get a horse to walk forward if they are resistant to the lead by pulling off to the side, at a good 90 degree angle. this planting her feet might mean that she isn't really trained to lead, does not know well how to give to pressure and this will be one of your first challenges. and , something that an EXPERIENCED trainer could help you with. this is very fundamental to any horse's training, and if not trained in WELL from the beginning will result in many "holes" further down the road, such as pullling back when tied, bolting away from a handler and trouble loading into a trailer/float.

The first time I brought her in I tied her up
I would not tie up any horse that i did not know for sure would tie well. and started by stepping towards her and away from her, getting nearer when she looked more relaxed and eventually her nose was on my tummy when I stepped forwards.
again, if horse is fearful, tied up and you do not know that she will give to pressure from teh leadline, the last thing you want to do is approach her and possibly cause her to pull back and panic. this approach and reatreat should be done with the horse on a long leadline, IMO. Since then I've stroked her neck until she looks comfortable and then stroking her 3 times putting my hand down and doing it again, lessening the time between the strokes and hand down until I could put my hand up and down quickly. If she ever looks uncomfortable I go back to stepping.
Ok. not so odd. reasonable enough to me.
I then led her around a bit ( we have a space between the 8 stables and the fence to their field) on the end of the leadrope, stopped when I stopped and walking and turning when I did. She did it lovely. She even backed up when I walked backwards!
that's nice. this is a start. I'd do it in an arena or round pen at first, so that if she got away from you she could not take off. and this is only a start, and just having her follow well, a bit, is not indicative that she is ready to be trusted in an open area, as you did.

The next few times I let her off her leadrope (it's completely safe) and allowed her to wander round while I sat down, she had a look at a few stuff and then followed me round like a lamb. Yesterday I did the same and for half an hour we walked stopped turned and even trotted without a leadrope. She did wander off to have a look a things sometimes but came straight back to me:)
Question: why was she following me like that?

this is what horse's do. she will look for somehting to "latch" onto. if you are there, she may choose you, but, as you have seen, it's only beacue nothing more compelling is in the vicinity, so it's really only her wanting to be with yuou when it's convenient for her. not to be relied upon, becuase when the herd heads out, THAT will be much more important to her. your job would be to become VERY important to her.
this is where it takes a lot of experience actually training horses to know how to do this, and where young folks who think that the horse following them is a "sign" that there is a bond and now everything will be ok. it's not enough. but, if you are interested in learning how to make this enough, then seek out assistance from a more experienced trainer. really. having experience with riding horses does not make you experience with training. some times, it jsut takes the guidance of a good mentor, and years. it's almost impossible to have that level of experience at 13. you just don't have the time on earth yet to do that.
Anyway, so then all the horses in the field where galloping around and her best friend came right up to the fence and she went up to the fence to say hi... then he started galloping on the other side of the fence and she started galloping on our side of the fence, crashed into a 1.3m fence, jumped over it, stumbled and galloped away... she's fine, her knee is slightly swollen though.
this is totally not a surprise. that horse was probably pretty stressed and anxious, being away from the group and only with you, and though you thought she was relaxed and trusting, it was only on the surface, only in the absence of something more important.
So anyway, thats whats happened so far:)
Does anyone have any ideas of things I can do to gain her trust? Im 13 if anyone was going to ask.
in a few words, learn to make yourself really important to a hrose. that is by learning how to purposefully move their feet and get them thinking ON you, in easy times and hard. how to do that? work with a pro. really.
Anyone want to see her? She's a real beauty!
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my comments in red.
 
#52 ·
some posts have been removed and or editted .

please keep in mind this forum is not a courtroom. we are here to give support, feedback, advice and companionship in our shared passion; horses. the other member can choose to accept it or not, and we'll have to live with that, and do it gracefully. We are not here to pin another member down and either forcefeed them advice or grill them relentlessly on their experience level.
 
#53 ·
OP-sorry, but your lack of experience almost hit me in the head hen you said the first thing you did was tie this horse. Probably NOT the best thing to do with a horse you have been told is scared. All you need is the horse to struggle and get hurt, or get even worse.

Please get some help from someone with more experience than you.
 
#54 ·
Please will members note that this is not the OP's horse, it is not her place to get someone to help her with it - that is for the owner to do
The OP has several choices -
To walk away from the horse altogether
To tell to the owner that it needs a more experienced person to work with it if the owner can't do it herself
That she (the OP) will only work with it when the owner is there to supervise or some other experienced adult
If she takes the latter option it would be nice if she had some good useful ideas from HF members that she could suggest they try
 
#60 ·
I know you asked this earlier and I haven't read through everything but I just want to answer your question. You asked how do you get experience if everyone is telling you not to do this?

You get experience by working with an experienced person. Training a horse isn't really like riding a bike where you go by feel since even if it does feel right it might not be.. It's more like.. Being a teacher. There's a reason why teachers go to school to get degrees for teaching. There is a lot more going on behind the scenes than what you see when you're in the students perspective looking at the teacher. That teacher has to know everything about the subject they are teaching, every specific minute detail, (everything! because if they are wrong the student will be wrong too), and not only that but they have to know how to teach it and what to do if a student is having trouble, acts up, ect.

Teachers learn from other teachers. And that is exactly what you should look into doing. (Before you teach anything or anyone yourself.) If you really want to be a horse trainer then you should look in your area to see who the trainers are. Then you have some options you can: find out if they are looking for help, if you could sit in with them while they are training, if you could stop by and talk to them and you can ask what they would suggest to get your foot in the door. You can also call stables that give lessons and see about working or helping out there, make connections and see if the coach will let you sit in while giving lessons or training horses.
 
#62 ·
You are not an experienced rider or handler. You might think you are but in all reality you are not by your age and what little you have done, although this maybe a little more than some.

At your age I was representing the PC in Horse Trials and Show Jumping, not because my parents were wealthy, I never had my own pony nor leased one, I did it over several years on riding school ponies and, got to the championships more than once.

I had probably ridden over 100 ponies and horses, many of them problematic, destined for the knackers.

I have been a professional with horses for fifty years and have yet to meet an 'experienced' thirteen year old.

I will tell you why you are inexperienced.

Firstly you would not have tied a horse that is nervous up.
Secondly you would not have let her loose, you say it was safe but it wasn't because she jumped out damaging her knee.
Thirdly because any experienced person knows that still have a lot to learn and will listen to older, wiser and more experienced people.

You ask how you can gain experience if you are not hands on. That is a fair question, my answer is that you watch, ask questions and have an experienced person present to advise when you are handling a nervous unhandled horse.

Experience and wisdom come with age and learning the correct way to do things.

One thing I have learned is that regardless of what has happened to a horse prior, you forget it and get on with the job. They live in the moment.

Many horses regardless of breed are of a nervy disposition. It is just their make up. I had one family line that the foals were all wary of people or anything new. If you approached them or tried to handle them they would be 'on guard' and it would be easy for someone to conclude that had been abused but they never had. I could do anything with them, so could anyone else once they had proved to the horse they were trustworthy.

People on here think of it as a community, they get concerned when the potential for an accident to ether the horse or handler is stated. Their replies show this and if you respond in a "I know it all" way then they will get more forceful.

At thirteen you might be experienced for your age but, you are inexperienced in the horse world because of your age.
 
#65 ·
I read through the link provided. I don't feel even if you had passed level 10 that you are experienced to handle this situation. From what you have provided as your experience with horses I think the owner is taking advantage and not overly concerned about either you are the horse just from the way you are presenting information. That said I've known and do use a younger person that when I started paying for his services was your age for backing and training. There is a world of difference in the way he was brought up and the experience you claim. His father is a horse trader and he was expected from a very young age to be able to handle a variety of horses, horse temperaments and situations. With appropriate supervision and training he was expected to take any horse put in his care and achieve the goals set for that horse - from basic training and groundwork to starting a horse or correcting problems. He isn't the first child that I have know raised this way but your experience is not his. I would still never have allowed him to work my animals or start them without knowing his background, having references, seeing him both ride and handle horses, his father's permission and my supervision.
 
#66 ·
From everything I read in the first post I saw no hint of this horse being dangerous - just nervous and the initial progress sounded positive
Yes she made a mistake in letting the horse loose in what was probably a contained area when it decided to jump back in with the other horses - but that could happen to anyone regardless of their experience who looses a horse in a round pen for the first time
Unless its passport allows it to go for slaughter its not going to end up there.
Is it really so hard to be polite when offering advice to young people? It's no point us complaining about teenagers with bad attitudes when adults can't set a good example.
There is being honest to be helpful and there is being rude. There is a difference.
 
#68 ·
Thankyouu...

Seeing as though someone sounds as though somebody is actually interested and understands the situation I'll tell you, and anyone else who cares, what happened today..

So I caught her in the field using my technique and surprise surprise I caught her no problem, led her in, tied her up and began stroking her. I groomed her for the first time and guess what? She was fine with it. I felt down her legs and oh god forbid it... she was fine.

She's scared of leadropes because she was beaten with them. Actual physical ABUSE which we know actually happened. I did the same as I did with stroking her. And oh lord don't tell me. She let me throw it gently over her neck without reacting.

Oh yeah and then I got her used the stable rubber opened up on her back and GUESS WHAT? she was fine with it.

The whole time neither of us did anything dangerous and it looks like my approach to horses works better than you all expected. I don't care if you don't agree with me, I know other methods but I went for this one and it works for me.
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#67 ·
The kid comes here: polite, respectful, articulate, with decent horse experiences for her age, asking thoughtful questions because she *wants to learn* and is reaching out to a variety of resources.

She deserves nothing but a gentle warning to be careful and have her questions answered. Nothing but kindness, and maybe a little bit more consideration and patience than one would give another adult.

Even if you are in a crappy mood, resist the temptation to gang up on a kid. Seriously.
 
#70 ·
Yes she made a mistake in letting the horse loose in what was probably a contained area when it decided to jump back in with the other horses - but that could happen to anyone regardless of their experience who looses a horse in a round pen for the first time
I'm not able to speak for others, but I had a problem, not with a simple mistake(all of us make those) but with the OP's response, which came across as showing a very unrealistic and potentially dangerous 'Disney' sort of view point.

She deserves nothing but a gentle warning to be careful and have her questions answered. Nothing but kindness, and maybe a little bit more consideration and patience than one would give another adult.
to me, this situation comes across as dangerous to the op and the horse. I'm not sure why the only appropriate response is a "gentle warning". It would suck if a 13 year old got seriously injured. That happened here a few years back. kid with Disney stories in her head, grew up riding, figured she could start a horse because she'd been riding since she was a toddler. She was thrown. they airlifted her to the nearest large hospital, but she died in transit.

So when a 13 year old starts talking about getting themselves in a potentially dangerous situation, I say something.
 
#71 ·
I'm not able to speak for others, but I had a problem, not with a simple mistake(all of us make those) but with the OP's response, which came across as showing a very unrealistic and potentially dangerous 'Disney' sort of view point.



to me, this situation comes across as dangerous to the op and the horse. I'm not sure why the only appropriate response is a "gentle warning". It would suck if a 13 year old got seriously injured. That happened here a few years back. kid with Disney stories in her head, grew up riding, figured she could start a horse because she'd been riding since she was a toddler. She was thrown. they airlifted her to the nearest large hospital, but she died in transit.

So when a 13 year old starts talking about getting themselves in a potentially dangerous situation, I say something.
My 'disney' view is my way of seeing a horse, I don't agree with the way SOME people treat their horses, like they owe them something and I don't agree with this. This is my OPINION and imo I don't think its patronised because of it. It is not yours to comment on.


If your going to bite my head off, don't.
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#74 ·
Why is every one so rude? I am 15. I was doing this exact thing with my horse before I personally broke her in at 12, yes I was under supervision but my parents had no clue about horses so I had no help from them. I was using the liberty technique with Chance and not we are inseperable, we go on walks without head collars, ride tackless- 100% liberty, he is not pushy or dominant. We have a mutual respect for each other. There is no need to force your horse to do something if they really don't want to. E.g Mika clearly was more nervius in the stable that was probably why Dommycob didn't want to keep her in the stable. If she's can't tie her horse up, keep her in the stable or let her loose, what else can she do? Bar things happn- jumping the fence was a bad thing, of course safety is important, but she is taking precautions with Mika.
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#75 · (Edited by Moderator)
My advice is to get a trainer to teach you, like I said. You cannot, let me repeat this a few times, cannot cAnNoT CANNOT learn how to train baby or unhandled horses from a book, or a forum, or a movie. You need someone there to coach you. Someone to say "When he does that, do this" or who can step in and show you what you are doing wrong.

I have been training baby horses for longer than you have been alive, and I STILL like to have my parents there(mostly for the ego stroking praise telling me how awesome I am now) but also to help me when I get in a bind.

You need a trainer for YOU.
You need a mentor for YOU.
You need hands on help for YOU.

You may be good, you may have talent, you may ONE DAY be better than every person on this forum. Right now, you are inexperienced AT HANDLING UNHANDLED HORSES. Keep in mind I did not say you are inexperienced completely. You do not know what you are doing.

In this situation, you are going to get hurt and RUIN the horse. You need a trainer to show you what you need to be doing.


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#76 · (Edited by Moderator)
The OP lost me when she asked in the first post how to unstick a balking horse in the field. To me, anyone with a little experience understands how to fix that.

And then all the stuff about freedom, and slaves.......I'm sorry, but I can't take her seriously. Freedom. Really? Horses aren't free; you take that away every time you but a halter on, put them in a stall, have them behind a fence in a pasture, and feed them on a schedule. Is any of that freedom?

Slave? Really? When I tell my children to take out the garbage, mow the lawn, or take the leaves, are they my slaves? I'm a slave to them! I work hard to put food on their table, shoes on their feet, an education (college) and a car and insurance while they are in college. They at this point buy heir own clothes and phone plans.

Same with a horse. I buy it everything it needs, and some things it really doesn't. When I want to have a daily ride, the darn beast better be ready, willing, and able to provide that. Since I keep him 'locked' up in a five acre pasture, his 'freedom' is a nice four or five hour trail ride.

Personally, I have no patience with this type of nonsense.

But the thread has been enjoyable nonetheless.

I apologize for stepping on the soap box. But the rainbows, butterflies, and horses that fart sprinkles just wear on me.......*sighs*
 
#78 ·
I feel so bad for this poor girl. She came here asking for help and she got crapped on.

ADULTS: There is a nice way and a not nice way to talk to kids. You can say the same thing without being rude. Why not take a little extra time to figure out the kinder way to approach things? You might actually find the person who sought your advice willing to listen if you did. And what's the point of talking if no one is listening? There isn't any point, so you might as well not bother.

This forum can be really amazing when people make that little extra effort to be kind and considerate. I have learned so much from many of you. But it can be a real hell hole when people don't make that effort. When threads like this happen it drives people away, people who NEED the help. That kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

This young woman needs your experienced help. She doesn't need your attacks. And yes, many of you have attacked her. It's pretty disgusting, and I'm reading the censored posts. She has legit questions that could use some legit answers (as given by tinyliny and jaydee). And she has raised some areas of concern. HELP HER don't make her feel like a turd for asking or trying. We all have to start somewhere.

And yes, I do realize her safety is chief concern, and she is at risk. So tell her. Tell her nicely. Share your experiences. Don't attack.

/rantover
 
#80 ·
She lost most of us with the freedom/slave thing.

When told hands on help was needed, she poo-pooed that.

The help she needs can NOT be obtained with a few typed words spewed on a computer screen.

Now here is a rant:

Personally, sometimes children (and us adults) need a strong dose of reality.

Is her future boss gonna give a dern if he has to correct her, or tell her how to do something and she doesn't agree so she gets mouthy and he then fires her?

What is it with kids today (and their parents) that you can't tell a kid how it is? This 'everyone wins a ribbon' mentality is not doing society any favors. Kids are not porcelain dolls.

When did it become correct, or ok for kids to become mouthy?

The way some kids act today, they think they know it all since exiting the womb. BS. We are learning stuff until the day our brain cells die. You can be open to learning, or not.

In the 60's, if I had talked like the OP to any number of the older horsemen/women in barns I hung out at, I would have had a pointed toe boot upside my head. And I would have been escorted off the property. Then my mom would have kicked my tushie to boot, because I was being snotty, bratty, mouthy, and a spoiled little know it all.

I didn't win any ribbons either (that was back before everyone won a ribbon to build self esteem and all that crap).......but, I did learn to listen, and be real quiet. Amazing what a young girl can learn when she is quietly sitting backing listening to everything......*grins*
 
#86 ·
OP I am glad that todays lesson went well. That said, I would consider no longer working with this horse. The first reason is liability and risk of injury. As I am sure you know horses are powerful animals and can injure you. Are you willing to risk your skin and health for a horse you are not being paid to work with? Are you able to cover the cost of the horse getting hurt? I ask this because when I was 15 we went out of town and had a girl horse sit for us. She was a C level pony club member had been riding her entire life and wanted to go to vet school. I have no clue what happened while we were away but when we came home the horse was "a little lame" as her letter indicated. Which turned out to be three legged lame due to a fracture and the horse had to be euthanized. Which is why obvious injuries to the legs without a vet call tick me off. Do you want to be responsible for this horse seriously injuring itself? That is why the fact that the horse jumped the fence and you did not call the vet worries me. This horse has shown it is willing to disregard its safety (it was clearly injured during the jump). You have shown a willingness to disregard the health and safety of someone else's property.

I know it is really flattering to be young and have someone want to break or train your horse. That said, doesn't it bother you that they don't value your life or skills enough to pay you? Isn't this service you are providing worth getting paid for and if not than should you get it up to par enough to be worth a fee? I have always turned down anyone who wanted me to train them or their horse. This is because I don't want that liability (financially or ethically). I don't have the facility and some of those horses have been flat out dangerous. You are in the toddler years of your life (relatively speaking) it is much more beneficial to you and your skills to ask to shadow an experienced, reputable trainer as they bring this horse along.

If you insist on continuing to train what do you plan to train this horse to do? What is your area of expertise? When will you start to ground drive? When do you plan to teach her to lunge? How do you plan to address her buddy sour behavior?
 
#87 ·
Well said. I tend to be blunt to the point it comes off rude although I never intend to be rude. OP I genuinely want to hear your answers as well and not to judge you but so we can understand you better. Right now we only have your post to judge by. Please provide more information to make this thread helpful for you. These questions will help a lot.
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