New Horse Owner Under Unfortunate Circumstaces! - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 45 Old 03-06-2013, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by franknbeans View Post
Saranda-that is what she has the goats for-I am hoping they work. Where this mare is now, what sort of companions does she have?
Right now she is kept with my bil's friends donkey. I am hesitant to get another horse/pony/donkey as I dont want to over graze our pasture. I have considered a pony if the goats dont work out well but we'll wait and see.
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post #22 of 45 Old 03-06-2013, 08:26 AM
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I've heard that goats are able to overgraze a pasture much more quickly than horses, as they eat literally everything and nothing nutritional is left for equines on the same pasture. I haven't kept any goats myself, but maybe it is something to look into just to be completely sure.
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post #23 of 45 Old 03-06-2013, 08:34 AM
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Hello and welcome to the forum! You sound very level-headed, calm and organized. Not only terrific traits for raising children but, also for horse-keeping

1. You can find many good deals on Craigs List but I would advise against Craigs List when looking for a trainer or someone to trim her hooves.

You could end up with some unsavory person that would be detrimental to your horse and perhaps even your family. Not being an experienced horse person, you would have no way of knowing if you fell into "gold" or the person is just shucking n jiving you for your money.

Mr. WTW does business on CL but he NEVER allows them to come to our home; he meets them somewhere there's a lot of traffic, like WalMart, to exchange car parts for money - lollol I hate CraigsList - lol lol lol

1.1 In your conversation to inform Penelope's vet you are now caring for her, I might also ask for recommendations for a trainer AND a farrier or barefoot trimmer. She is not going off your property anytime soon, so barefoot is best at the moment, plus it will save you a lot of money

1.1.1 If you don't have a hoof pick yet, buy one - not plastic, buy metal so it won't break. When the farrier or trimmer arrives, explain the situation and have that person show you the proper way to clean Penelope's hooves with the pic.

They will show you the proper way to stand, so you don't get stepped on or kicked, and also the correct way to clean her hooves so you don't accidentally damage the frog and end up laming her up. The frog is that big fleshy "thing" in the center of the hoof

2. Is Penelope honestly 15.1H and 1,300 pounds? She is waaaay overweight, even for a QH. Assuming she has a big "weight lifter" build, as opposed to a more refined bone structure, she should not weight more than 1,100 pounds; even that could be a stretch.

One of my Tennessee Walkers is 15.3 and weighs about 1,150 lbs. He's lost ~150 pounds because he was obese and ended up with insulin resistance, which is like Type II diabetes in humans. He has to wear a grazing muzzle 9 months of the year, where I live.

2.1 Penelope's weight is another thing to ask the vet about. If she honestly is the weight and height you say, I hope the vet doesn't tell you "not to worry". She does not get near enough exercise to help with that sort of weight issue.

2.1 Do you have pictures of her? lol lol lol This forum asks for pictures if we're only talking about statues

2.2 Penelope does NOT need grain of any sort. She is not working hard enough to merit grain.

A high quality ration balancer is all she needs to get all her vitamins and minerals. Generally one pound daily for non-working horses is sufficient but you can call the 800 number on the bag and ask for a nutritionist. They bend over backward to help us horse owners feed the correct amount for the horse's size and the job it is doing.

What you buy will depend on: a) what's available to you; b) your wallet.

50 lbs will last a very long time, so if you're spring/summers get really humid, you will have to watch the RB doesn't go sour in the barn.

2.2 Buy her a WHITE salt block and place it next to her water. Horses need to freed-feed on salt. Trace mineral blocks are just that and do not provide the necessary minerals that a good Ration Balancer will.

If you notice Penelope is not licking the salt block, buy her loose salt. Some horses don't like to lick from a block but will eat loose salt. I think you can buy loose salt for horses at any feed store, or you can add table salt to her feed pan every day.

I'm not sure how much to add if the horse is totally dependent on loose salt as I don't have much of a "not licking the block" issue.

3. Your children will not like me very well BUT no apples, carrots, or sugary treat for Miss Penelope Jane

Instead, I would buy a bag of quality timothy pellets and let the children use those as treats. Tractor Supply carries Standlees forage products; I use several of their bagged products, including the timothy pellets. Their products are always clean and dust-free.

4. Unless the entire ceiling of your barn is a minimum height of 13 feet (even that is too short), please do not ride Penelope in the barn. Anything could spook her, maybe cause her to rear, and you could end up hurt bad enough to not be able to care for your children for awhile

That is about five dollars worth of "my two cents" and I'm sure I've forgotten something

Bless you and your husband for taking your BIL's mare in. I'm sure that is a huge huge relief to him

Prayers and good thoughts coming to all of you
Gaited07 and egrogan like this.

A Good Horseman Doesn't Have To Tell Anyone; The Horse Already Knows.

I CAN'T ride 'em n slide 'em. I HAVE to lead 'em n feed 'em Thnx cowchick77.
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post #24 of 45 Old 03-06-2013, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkinthewalk View Post
Hello and welcome to the forum! You sound very level-headed, calm and organized. Not only terrific traits for raising children but, also for horse-keeping

1. You can find many good deals on Craigs List but I would advise against Craigs List when looking for a trainer or someone to trim her hooves.

You could end up with some unsavory person that would be detrimental to your horse and perhaps even your family. Not being an experienced horse person, you would have no way of knowing if you fell into "gold" or the person is just shucking n jiving you for your money.

Mr. WTW does business on CL but he NEVER allows them to come to our home; he meets them somewhere there's a lot of traffic, like WalMart, to exchange car parts for money - lollol I hate CraigsList - lol lol lol

1.1 In your conversation to inform Penelope's vet you are now caring for her, I might also ask for recommendations for a trainer AND a farrier or barefoot trimmer. She is not going off your property anytime soon, so barefoot is best at the moment, plus it will save you a lot of money

1.1.1 If you don't have a hoof pick yet, buy one - not plastic, buy metal so it won't break. When the farrier or trimmer arrives, explain the situation and have that person show you the proper way to clean Penelope's hooves with the pic.

They will show you the proper way to stand, so you don't get stepped on or kicked, and also the correct way to clean her hooves so you don't accidentally damage the frog and end up laming her up. The frog is that big fleshy "thing" in the center of the hoof

2. Is Penelope honestly 15.1H and 1,300 pounds? She is waaaay overweight, even for a QH. Assuming she has a big "weight lifter" build, as opposed to a more refined bone structure, she should not weight more than 1,100 pounds; even that could be a stretch.

One of my Tennessee Walkers is 15.3 and weighs about 1,150 lbs. He's lost ~150 pounds because he was obese and ended up with insulin resistance, which is like Type II diabetes in humans. He has to wear a grazing muzzle 9 months of the year, where I live.

2.1 Penelope's weight is another thing to ask the vet about. If she honestly is the weight and height you say, I hope the vet doesn't tell you "not to worry". She does not get near enough exercise to help with that sort of weight issue.

2.1 Do you have pictures of her? lol lol lol This forum asks for pictures if we're only talking about statues

2.2 Penelope does NOT need grain of any sort. She is not working hard enough to merit grain.

A high quality ration balancer is all she needs to get all her vitamins and minerals. Generally one pound daily for non-working horses is sufficient but you can call the 800 number on the bag and ask for a nutritionist. They bend over backward to help us horse owners feed the correct amount for the horse's size and the job it is doing.

What you buy will depend on: a) what's available to you; b) your wallet.

50 lbs will last a very long time, so if you're spring/summers get really humid, you will have to watch the RB doesn't go sour in the barn.

2.2 Buy her a WHITE salt block and place it next to her water. Horses need to freed-feed on salt. Trace mineral blocks are just that and do not provide the necessary minerals that a good Ration Balancer will.

If you notice Penelope is not licking the salt block, buy her loose salt. Some horses don't like to lick from a block but will eat loose salt. I think you can buy loose salt for horses at any feed store, or you can add table salt to her feed pan every day.

I'm not sure how much to add if the horse is totally dependent on loose salt as I don't have much of a "not licking the block" issue.

3. Your children will not like me very well BUT no apples, carrots, or sugary treat for Miss Penelope Jane

Instead, I would buy a bag of quality timothy pellets and let the children use those as treats. Tractor Supply carries Standlees forage products; I use several of their bagged products, including the timothy pellets. Their products are always clean and dust-free.

4. Unless the entire ceiling of your barn is a minimum height of 13 feet (even that is too short), please do not ride Penelope in the barn. Anything could spook her, maybe cause her to rear, and you could end up hurt bad enough to not be able to care for your children for awhile

That is about five dollars worth of "my two cents" and I'm sure I've forgotten something

Bless you and your husband for taking your BIL's mare in. I'm sure that is a huge huge relief to him

Prayers and good thoughts coming to all of you
My brother in law is the one who told me her size and weight so I was just going from what he said. He did tell me she was over weight though. Thank you so much for the feed input...I am very unsure of what to feed her but I think I have a better understanding now. So I assume that if I go into my local feed store and ask what type of ration balancers they offer that he will know what I mean??? My barn is acutally about 25 feet high so I think I should be ok with that just not sure that I have enough floor space penned off for riding in there. My husband unfortunatly wont let me have anymore of the barn, lol. He doubles this as his garage so I dont want to invade his man space to much, lol. I did buy a salt block but I'll keep an eye on it to see if she is actually licking it or not. I'll see if I can get a picture to load. I have gone back to the stoneages with internet in an attempt to save money, lol. I was paying $50 dollars a month for Hughes Net and now only pay $9,lol. So anyways if my horrible internet will let a picture load I'll sure post one! Thanks for all the helpful info I appreciate it more than you know. I had second thoughts at one point whether or not me as a NEWB to horses should even be treading here but I must admit this is kind of a dream come true!
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post #25 of 45 Old 03-06-2013, 08:51 AM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Central Illinois
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Pictures of Penelope

Here are two pictures of her. This is not at my house. She will be delivered next Saturday to my place so I hope she likes it!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Penelope.jpg (54.8 KB, 75 views)
File Type: jpg Penelope1.jpg (46.6 KB, 76 views)
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post #26 of 45 Old 03-06-2013, 09:03 AM
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Try www.newhorse.com to help find a trainer. It will be nice to have someone to go to with questions. (Not that coming here isn't helpful, but it's nice to have someone physically there if need be).

Also, be prepared to keep an eye on those goats. They are master escape artists.

Try to get into the habit of checking your fence line once a week. Check for nails, screws, staples, weak spots, or breakage of fence or eletric line.

Also, keep an equine first aid kit handy at all times in your barn. There are A LOT of products out there and we all use something different, but you'll want some type of antimicrobial/bacterial scrub, triple antibiotic cream (something like neosporin), guaze (a lot of guaze), vet wrap, vaseline, a thermometer, also ask your vet to keep a supply of antibiotics on hand.
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post #27 of 45 Old 03-06-2013, 10:25 AM
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I don't know how you got those pictures posted on $9/month but huge Kudos to you!

The bad news is that I see a cresty neck and Penelope is in a dry lot. Mercy your BIL must be feeding her an obnoxious amount of feed that includes grain.

Looking at the pics, I can see the need to lose a good 100 pounds. If your BIL used a tape to measure her weight, the tape could have been off.

If he took her to a weigh scale and she came in at 1,300 pounds, that Sweet Face needs to get at least 200 pounds off. That is more than 12 months of dieting. The weight loss, like humans, needs to be steady and done in a healthy way.

The cresty neck means she is a candidate for insulin issues, if she doesn't have them already. That can mean laminitis ouchy hooves when walking or an unwillingness to walk too much, or outright founder.

Founder is when the coffin bone inside the hoof (actually looks like a Mini-Me hoof within the hoof), starts to rotate due south. The more rotation the more danger and pain for the horse.

I hope hope hope your vet is up-to-speed on metabolic issues so he can help in the weight loss process.

1. No legume hays such as alfalfa. Weed-free grass/mix hay and the mix should NOT include any sort of clovers or legumes.

She can have bermuda hay but a lot of folks don't like feeding all bermuda because it is so fine and can cause impaction colic in some horses - not all horses as I have four that can eat Coastal Bermuda, a/k/a The Fluffies, very well.

2. I hate to say this but if you can't dry lot her during the day and let her out to pasture at night, a grazing muzzle is in order for the dollface.

2.1 Also a slow feeder hay net for the times she is in lockdown. Horses digestive juices never stop producing; if they have nothing to digest, colic can happen.

Sometimes horses with insulin issues will gobble an entire night's supply of hay in a few hours, thus the reason for the slow-feeder nets.

I order those things from Chicks Saddlery because they sell a muzzle that has huge nostril holes so the horse can breath better.

Grazing muzzles do not stay on 24/7. On in the daylight hours, off at night. I wash mine every night with Dawn Dish Soap and hot water.

The slow feed net is on the same page. Product SF1802 for $7.95.
Saddles Tack Horse Supplies - ChickSaddlery.com Tough-1 Easy Breathe Grazing Muzzle <>

3. Her hooves need done as soon as you can afford to get them done. Hopefully you can get by with getting her trimmed every 5 - 6 weeks. Hooves on diabetic horses are like toes on diabetic humans - they need constant care and maintenance

3.1 If she hasn't had any hoof issues yet, hopefully you can catch her in time to prevent them because, like human diabetes, equine meabolic issues are never reversible -- only controllable with a strict diet and hoof maintenance program.

The disease does not render a horse unridable - to the contrary they need exercise as long as the Owner doesn't want to send them over Oxers, team pen, rope, or do endurance, etc. with them - the stamina just isn't there due to the disease.

Any good feed store knows what Ration Balancers are.

It would be fantastic if you have Triple Crown feeds available because they list their ingredients, where many others do not.

Tractor Supply carries Purina and Nutrena (please leave their own DuMor feed right where it sits in the store:.

FEED Possibilities, depending on availability:

Triple Crown Lite is grain-free and also has a Probiotic in it. http://www.southernstates.com/docs/s...s/55314011.pdf

Triple Crown Low Starch is also grain-free with a probiotic. http://www.evergreenmills.com/docs/t...nLowStarch.pdf

Triple Crown also sells "Ontario Dehy", Equine Nutrition: Triple Crown Equine Nutrition For Low Carbohydrate Horse Diets

My friend has seven acres of rocks and very little grass. She feeds this along with grass hay. She has already laid one horse to rest from insulin resistance (IR) AND Cushings.

Purina has Enrich 32, WellSolve L/S and WellSolve W/C.

Nutrena offers Empower and the SafeChoice line.

If you're confused, you're right up there with the rest of us.

Tractor Supply sells Purina and Nutrena products. Unless you get lucky and one of the sales staff is an experienced horse person, they will not be of much help. Most likely your feed store sales staff won't be, either

I think if an RB poll were taken on this forum, just of these three brands, Triple Crown would win, hands down.

You may have other brands of Ration Balancers available, specific to your area. Sales staff had better at least know the difference between a ration balancer and a bag of feed containing grain.

Not all pelleted feeds are grain-free by the way

I know this is an awful lot for you to digest, but don't get overwhelmed. There is lots of help and encouragement on this forum

Just know that Penelope needs to lose weight for her own good. That means:

No grains whatsover

No alfalfa

No sugary treats (sorry children:)

Either limitied time on grass with a grazing muzzle or dry lot her with hay in a slow feed hay net during the day, and turn her out to grass AFTER the sun goes down and stops producing sugar.

Just an FYI, the shorter the grass, the more sugar and drought grass is worse for containing large amounts of sugar than Spring or Fall grass.

That is because the root system is forcing sugar up to the shoots at Mach 80 to help the grass survive without rain.

A Good Horseman Doesn't Have To Tell Anyone; The Horse Already Knows.

I CAN'T ride 'em n slide 'em. I HAVE to lead 'em n feed 'em Thnx cowchick77.

Last edited by walkinthewalk; 03-06-2013 at 10:29 AM.
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post #28 of 45 Old 03-06-2013, 10:43 AM
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In addition to looking into having a trainer come out to the house, stock up on books and DVDs on horses -- as many as you can get your hot little hands on. ^_^ I love perusing used book stores for any books on horses and have amassed quite a little "horse library" which is amazingly helpful for everything from facility management to riding and training.
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post #29 of 45 Old 03-06-2013, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkinthewalk View Post
I don't know how you got those pictures posted on $9/month but huge Kudos to you!

The bad news is that I see a cresty neck and Penelope is in a dry lot. Mercy your BIL must be feeding her an obnoxious amount of feed that includes grain.

Looking at the pics, I can see the need to lose a good 100 pounds. If your BIL used a tape to measure her weight, the tape could have been off.

If he took her to a weigh scale and she came in at 1,300 pounds, that Sweet Face needs to get at least 200 pounds off. That is more than 12 months of dieting. The weight loss, like humans, needs to be steady and done in a healthy way.

The cresty neck means she is a candidate for insulin issues, if she doesn't have them already. That can mean laminitis ouchy hooves when walking or an unwillingness to walk too much, or outright founder.

Founder is when the coffin bone inside the hoof (actually looks like a Mini-Me hoof within the hoof), starts to rotate due south. The more rotation the more danger and pain for the horse.

I hope hope hope your vet is up-to-speed on metabolic issues so he can help in the weight loss process.

1. No legume hays such as alfalfa. Weed-free grass/mix hay and the mix should NOT include any sort of clovers or legumes.

She can have bermuda hay but a lot of folks don't like feeding all bermuda because it is so fine and can cause impaction colic in some horses - not all horses as I have four that can eat Coastal Bermuda, a/k/a The Fluffies, very well.

2. I hate to say this but if you can't dry lot her during the day and let her out to pasture at night, a grazing muzzle is in order for the dollface.

2.1 Also a slow feeder hay net for the times she is in lockdown. Horses digestive juices never stop producing; if they have nothing to digest, colic can happen.

Sometimes horses with insulin issues will gobble an entire night's supply of hay in a few hours, thus the reason for the slow-feeder nets.

I order those things from Chicks Saddlery because they sell a muzzle that has huge nostril holes so the horse can breath better.

Grazing muzzles do not stay on 24/7. On in the daylight hours, off at night. I wash mine every night with Dawn Dish Soap and hot water.

The slow feed net is on the same page. Product SF1802 for $7.95.
Saddles Tack Horse Supplies - ChickSaddlery.com Tough-1 Easy Breathe Grazing Muzzle <>

3. Her hooves need done as soon as you can afford to get them done. Hopefully you can get by with getting her trimmed every 5 - 6 weeks. Hooves on diabetic horses are like toes on diabetic humans - they need constant care and maintenance

3.1 If she hasn't had any hoof issues yet, hopefully you can catch her in time to prevent them because, like human diabetes, equine meabolic issues are never reversible -- only controllable with a strict diet and hoof maintenance program.

The disease does not render a horse unridable - to the contrary they need exercise as long as the Owner doesn't want to send them over Oxers, team pen, rope, or do endurance, etc. with them - the stamina just isn't there due to the disease.

Any good feed store knows what Ration Balancers are.

It would be fantastic if you have Triple Crown feeds available because they list their ingredients, where many others do not.

Tractor Supply carries Purina and Nutrena (please leave their own DuMor feed right where it sits in the store:.

FEED Possibilities, depending on availability:

Triple Crown Lite is grain-free and also has a Probiotic in it. http://www.southernstates.com/docs/salessheets/55314011.pdf
Quote:
Excellent choice ^

Triple Crown Low Starch is also grain-free with a probiotic. http://www.evergreenmills.com/docs/t...nLowStarch.pdf
Quote:
Do NOT recommend because of the rice bran and beet pulp.
Triple Crown also sells "Ontario Dehy", Equine Nutrition: Triple Crown Equine Nutrition For Low Carbohydrate Horse Diets

My friend has seven acres of rocks and very little grass. She feeds this along with grass hay. She has already laid one horse to rest from insulin resistance (IR) AND Cushings.

Purina has Enrich 32, WellSolve L/S and WellSolve W/C.

Nutrena offers Empower and the SafeChoice line.

If you're confused, you're right up there with the rest of us.

Tractor Supply sells Purina and Nutrena products. Unless you get lucky and one of the sales staff is an experienced horse person, they will not be of much help. Most likely your feed store sales staff won't be, either

I think if an RB poll were taken on this forum, just of these three brands, Triple Crown would win, hands down.

You may have other brands of Ration Balancers available, specific to your area. Sales staff had better at least know the difference between a ration balancer and a bag of feed containing grain.

Not all pelleted feeds are grain-free by the way

I know this is an awful lot for you to digest, but don't get overwhelmed. There is lots of help and encouragement on this forum

Just know that Penelope needs to lose weight for her own good. That means:

No grains whatsover

No alfalfa

No sugary treats (sorry children:)

Either limitied time on grass with a grazing muzzle or dry lot her with hay in a slow feed hay net during the day, and turn her out to grass AFTER the sun goes down and stops producing sugar.

Just an FYI, the shorter the grass, the more sugar and drought grass is worse for containing large amounts of sugar than Spring or Fall grass.

That is because the root system is forcing sugar up to the shoots at Mach 80 to help the grass survive without rain.

I agree with everything except some of the feeds such as low starch. Do some homework on the ingredients. The Triple crown Lite is a good choice IMO
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post #30 of 45 Old 03-06-2013, 11:33 AM
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^^^^ yes the rice bran and beet pulp are weight additives - something Penelope does not need - my apologies

If you think you're a great label reader now, wait until you have to start reading bags of horse feed and supplement - lollol

I also wanted to add, regarding your children:

By all means keep all your children involved Penelope’s care and keeping under your strict supervision.
I was raised on a dairy farm and had my first serious-don’t-mess-this-up-job at age five. I had to gather eggs, wash, candle, and grade them. When I got good at that, I got “promoted” to packing them in the correctly marked boxes.
My son was ten when he started mowing the lawn with the lawn tractor.
Even your 4-yr olds are able to do some little thing.
The unexpected rewards of that will be jaw-dropping, not to mention the glowing satisfaction they will all get from helping Penelope adjust to her new environment but to help her stay healthyJ
There may come a time in the grocery store when one of them remarks “I feel bad Penny can’t have an apple but it’s too much sugar for her”. You will be amazed at the things they are all capable of comprehending.
If ever there was a family project that allows for everyone to be involved, it's a horse -- especially their uncle's horse
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A Good Horseman Doesn't Have To Tell Anyone; The Horse Already Knows.

I CAN'T ride 'em n slide 'em. I HAVE to lead 'em n feed 'em Thnx cowchick77.
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