Old fashioned training. - The Horse Forum
 95Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 24 Old 06-24-2019, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
Weanling
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 379
• Horses: 0
Old fashioned training.

I was wondering what your opinion was on “old fashioned”

A local trainer posted a video of him “fixing” a horse. The video was about 5 minutes long, the horse in the video was a Paso mare. Trainer was barefoot, in shorts, riding bareback. The horse was apparently barn sour, and everytime the guy would turn the horse around and kick him the horse would rear and spin back towards the barn. This went on for about 4 minutes until the guy jumps off and kicks, not like a little tap, like a KICK in the horses stomach, and then kicked the back legs. While all of this is happening, his dog was running behind and nipping the horses back legs.

To me this didn’t seem right or effective, just because my trainer was more based around earning the horses trust and baby steps.

The comments on the video were a mixture between “This is so disgusting and unprofessional” and “This is just old fashioned training and it’s effective”

Do you think that the old “being tough” methods are more effective or are you more towards the more modern concepts.

I just ask because to me this seemed off but apparently this was the normal thing to do for some folks and I’m curious as to what everyone else thinks about it?
DreamerR is offline  
post #2 of 24 Old 06-24-2019, 04:39 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 19,462
• Horses: 0
Just because something is 'old fashioned' doesn't make it bad. Just like 'modern' or 'natural' doesn't necessarily mean good. But that doesn't sound like anything but idiot 'training'!

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
loosie is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 06-24-2019, 04:49 PM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Michigan
Posts: 321
• Horses: 0
Gee, all that 'trainer' taught that horse is the way to get him off is to rear and spin, and when he gets off, to be afraid.

"The Man Who Listens to Horses" by Monty Roberts can show the difference between 'old-fashioned' training and 'natural' training. Monty's Father was an 'old-fashioned', impatient, abusive trainer that was definitely set in his ways. His son, Monty, is the famous horse trainer that can take a wild, unhandled horse and have him accept a rider in under 30 minutes, gently. These two trainers are starkly different, but they achieved the same result, a saddle-broke horse. The difference between these two extreme techniques is that one produces a robot of a horse and one produces a horse with its natural spirit maintained.

Toofine - 1998 Half Arabian
Minnie - 2013 Morgan
ClearDonkey is offline  
post #4 of 24 Old 06-24-2019, 04:59 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,263
• Horses: 0
There are trainers and then there are trainers....
Just because you make a video and post it does not make you a trainer.
Simply put....Would you allow someone like this to "train" your horse?
I would not, nor would they get anywhere near one of mine.

Trainers usually have a least the presence of mind to cover their feet not run around a 800 pound animal barefoot, nor do most have the habit of kicking it in the guts...
The dog doesn't deserve a kick to the skull killing it but if any dog nips/bites at my horses feet he's dead!
Archaic method comes to mind...and over time we have learned a kinder training of horses by far gives us better rewards and partnership with our animals.

I would not be watching this local trainer... a waste of time except to learn how not to do.
tinyliny, bsms, Kalraii and 2 others like this.

The worst day is instantly better when shared with my horse.....

Last edited by horselovinguy; 06-24-2019 at 05:02 PM. Reason: typo
horselovinguy is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 06-24-2019, 05:13 PM
Started
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 1,641
• Horses: 0
There are certainly different approaches to training. Some are based on “making” the horse do something, often through the use of intimidation. Other approaches are based more on “educating” the horse. These usually begin by trying to understand the horse, and progress to getting the horse to trust and understand what the trainer wants.

Neither general approach should be considered “old fashion” or “modern”. Both have been employed by a variety of trainers throughout the centuries.

Some more recent trainers such as Monty Roberts claim to have “discovered” gentler methods through their own observations and experimentation. This may be true for them. But a study of historic manuscripts shows that gentler methods are nothing new.
loosie, bsms, waresbear and 8 others like this.

Training riders and horses to work in harmony.
www.quietriding.com
www.quietriding.org
TXhorseman is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 06-24-2019, 05:16 PM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: middle of nowhere
Posts: 3,025
• Horses: 3
This is the type of training that resulted in horses like my Paso Fino being terrified of people and even more terrified of people on his back.... it breaks my heart, because he is such a kind, sweet soul and would have been so amazing if given half a chance in his former life. He's getting better, and I can ride him, but he's still dangerous if you don't know what you're doing, and thus doesn't have a bright future if something were to happen to me.

There's nothing wrong with 'old-fashioned' as long as it isn't cruel. Old-fashioned wasn't necessarily unkind, and abuse is abuse, whether it's now or 100 years in the past.
horselovinguy, Filou, SueC and 4 others like this.
SilverMaple is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 06-24-2019, 05:54 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 46,818
• Horses: 2
It's as wrong to lump all non-'natural horsemanship' trainers into one category and call it "old fashioned' as it is to lump all trainers who don't use coercion under a 'natural horsemanship' (and thus 'new') banner.


There is a LOT that so-called natural horsemanship trainers do that is centuries old. It isn't this black and white world as you might think from watching some videos, or reading a (much debated for authenticity) book.


the situation you are describing sounds like the school of training called "natural born fool" .
loosie, bsms, avjudge and 4 others like this.
tinyliny is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 06-24-2019, 07:23 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: A good place
Posts: 7,103
• Horses: 0
I never heard of training like that. And I'm pretty old. . I also work with people from many parts of the world and haven't seen anything like that.

If I had to define "old fashioned" I'd describe it as getting a horses lightly trained and then doing a job on them. That probably applies more to ranching and trail riding than other disciplines.
loosie, tinyliny, bsms and 3 others like this.
boots is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 06-24-2019, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
Weanling
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 379
• Horses: 0
Old fashioned is just the term they described it in the comments, hence the reason it’s in quotes lol. Although looking back they may have said “old fashioned discipline.” The trainer replied back to the the comments saying that it was ok to kick the horses because that’s how they communicate with each other. The scary thing about this was that I *almost* let him work with Bee on the the pulling back issue a few months ago, but after he said he would do it free of charge and “teach him a lesson” I decided he wasn’t the type of trainer I wanted near my horses.
DreamerR is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 06-25-2019, 01:38 AM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 19,462
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerR View Post
replied back to the the comments saying that it was ok to kick the horses because that’s how they communicate with each other.
The guy clearly has no idea. Yes, horses do boot eachother sometimes. That does not mean it is automatically a good practice for someone to kick a horse.

Even if you do use 'heavy punishment'(sometimes, granted, it may be warranted), horses learn from *instant* consequences. So effectively that 'trainer' was teaching the horse that he will get booted for standing around when the guy gets off his back.

If the horse was not happy being ridden - maybe he's 'barn sour' because he's frightened of being ridden, maybe the saddle hurts him, maybe he's afraid to leave the property... - if the horse 'acts up' and the guy gets off(whether to kick, to walk away, to give a treat, whatever), guess what he just taught the horse??
Blue, JoBlueQuarter and mmshiro like this.

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
loosie is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome