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post #11 of 31 Old 09-25-2013, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by GreySorrel View Post
Actually myhorsesonador your wrong. I am a Nevada Native, grew up there and use to go speak to our congressional and government seat as well on behalf of the mustangs.

The horses do less damage than the cattle and sheep that roam on the BLM owned land, a cow will eat the whole plant, shoot, roots and all, while horses are grazers, moving along, their teeth are equip to nip the grass or plant root near the ground but leave the roots. They move around as well, when the grass gets low they move on, a mustang knows each watering hole and how far it is. A horses hoof also does way less damage to the soil than a cloven hoof does, their manure they leave behind also often has seeds that go back into the earth and re-sprout grasses or native plants.

The ranchers would fence off many of the watering holes, ever seen a stallion go through a fence so his mares and herd can get water? I have. Also knew of ranchers who would shoot the mustangs on sight.

I was one of those teenagers in Nevada who use to know when certain herds were going to be taken out, several times a group of us got together and moved a smaller herd, we cut down fencing that prohibited them from their food and/or water supply. Many people who have not lived with these horses truly do not understand nor appreciate them. And the only damage they do are because of the human's, who trying to do a kind thing, throw hay out for them. They don't take it a few miles back into the hills, no, they have to throw it along the highway, many get hit, especially at night. While others thinking it is okay, throw it out near their own horses. Is it wrong for a wild stallion to do what his hormone's tell him to do? Not his fault.

And I have photo's of the damage that round up's do to those horses. I was disgusted and appalled at the herd of stallions being put together, you don't put bachelor and adult males in one big pen and expect them to get a long. Young foals being separated from their dam, elderly horses too exhausted to run any longer, legs being broken from their mad dash to get away from the jeeps, helicopters and/or motorized vehicles they used to corral these animals. You would be surprised at the numbers that don't get adopted out, too old or just not pretty enough so they sit. And where is the justice in that, tell me? If they aren't hurting anyone, leave em alone.
They are not wild, they are Feral. They are not native, they do not belong here. They serve no purpose other than "looking pretty."

The grass they eat, could be used to feed other animals that are native or serve a purpose. Ever wonder why ranchers fence off property?

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post #12 of 31 Old 09-25-2013, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Northernstar View Post
Hmmm - I believe that horses originated from Spain....according to what I've studied, even the BLM in all of their "wisdom" is required to do testing on possible Conquistedor horses, which are the ones who are 'spared', and thus trained for adoption to other homes. As far as the round-ups - I've seen footage that robbed me of sleep for many nights. Foals getting their hooves broken off trying to keep up in the general mayhem and fright from the helicopters for just one example. I'll personally never accept this as something that "Needs to be done". Evil? You bet. Necessary? Never.

So you rather see them starve on the desert because there is no feed and water left?

Right now we are in a serious drought and more so now they need to be gathered and sold not left to starve and die slowly.

I don't think the govt. does a good job of managing the horses but they will never relinquish the control. When it was up to the locals the horse herds were healthy, well bred and used for ranch horses, and they maintained a balance between the cattle, sheep and feral horse herds.
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post #13 of 31 Old 09-25-2013, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by COWCHICK77 View Post
So you rather see them starve on the desert because there is no feed and water left?

Right now we are in a serious drought and more so now they need to be gathered and sold not left to starve and die slowly.

I don't think the govt. does a good job of managing the horses but they will never relinquish the control. When it was up to the locals the horse herds were healthy, well bred and used for ranch horses, and they maintained a balance between the cattle, sheep and feral horse herds.

If there is such a problem with a drought and no water or food, why does the BLM allow the ranchers to utilize the land to graze their cattle and sheep on? I would think if there is nothing for those wild mustangs then there is nothing for their animals either.
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post #14 of 31 Old 09-25-2013, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by GreySorrel View Post
wild mustangs
You keep calling them "Wild" They are Feral there is a big difference.

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post #15 of 31 Old 09-25-2013, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by myhorsesonador View Post
They are not wild, they are Feral. They are not native, they do not belong here. They serve no purpose other than "looking pretty."

The grass they eat, could be used to feed other animals that are native or serve a purpose. Ever wonder why ranchers fence off property?
No I don't because I know, if you had read what I wrote, seeing as I grew up fighting for this very cause, you would see that I already answered your comment about why ranchers fence of property. And this was as of 2012:

A May 14, 2012, press release issued by PEER (Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility) – titled “Livestock’s Heavy Hooves Impair One-Third of BLM Rangelands” – contains numerous erroneous assertions based on a misunderstanding of the footnotes in the BLM’s 2011 Rangeland Inventory, Monitoring, and Evaluation (RIME) report.
What is most important to note is that numbers in the RIME report reflect the number of allotments not meeting land health standards, with the total number of acres in those allotments, not the actual number of acres not meeting land health standards in those allotments. For example, if a portion of a 3,000-acre allotment is determined not to be meeting standards, then the entire 3,000-acre allotment is counted and reported as not meeting standards, even though a significant amount of acreage in that allotment may in reality be meeting standards. The BLM has developed and will soon be implementing a mapping process and database that will document the actual number of acres not meeting land health standards.
Other points worth noting:
  • Twelve percent, not nearly 40 percent (as PEER asserted), of grazing allotments were found not to be meeting land health standards because of livestock grazing management at the time of the assessment.
  • PEER’s claim that the BLM uses “ambiguous” categories – such as the term “making significant progress” – ignores the fact that these categories are identified in BLM regulations (Title 43 Code of Federal Regulations 4180.2).
  • 15,665 grazing allotments – that is, 73 percent of all BLM allotments – had been evaluated for land health at the end of Fiscal Year 2011, and 79 percent of those evaluated were meeting or making significant progress toward meeting all land health standards under current management.
  • The BLM has taken action to correct grazing management on 86 percent of the 1,925 allotments where livestock grazing was determined to be the cause for not meeting land health standards.
The BLM has about 245 million acres of public lands, manages livestock grazing on 155 million acres of those lands, and there is no way that the wild mustangs can't be left alone or the herds watched? Come on...
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post #16 of 31 Old 09-25-2013, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by GreySorrel View Post
If there is such a problem with a drought and no water or food, why does the BLM allow the ranchers to utilize the land to graze their cattle and sheep on? I would think if there is nothing for those wild mustangs then there is nothing for their animals either.
Yes, it is a problem for the sheep and cattle as well. It's been a tough year and if anyone thinks that the BLM just allows a free for all on the grazing permits has never had to deal with it. They tell you when you can graze and when you can't.
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post #17 of 31 Old 09-25-2013, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by GreySorrel View Post
If there is such a problem with a drought and no water or food, why does the BLM allow the ranchers to utilize the land to graze their cattle and sheep on? I would think if there is nothing for those wild mustangs then there is nothing for their animals either.
There IS a drought. It's one of the reasons they're doing the BLM roundups early and trying to move them, because they are all in poor condition and have low body scores. Just not enough to sustain them.

Bureau targets 50 Nevada mustangs as drought bites - News - Horsetalk.co.nz
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post #18 of 31 Old 09-25-2013, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by myhorsesonador View Post
You keep calling them "Wild" They are Feral there is a big difference.
Because, I know the difference. So you know why I call them wild here is the definition:

fe·ral
ˈfi(ə)rəl,ˈferəl/
adjective
adjective: feral
1.
(esp. of an animal) in a wild state, esp. after escape from captivity or domestication.

wild
wīld/
adjective
adjective: wild
1.
(of an animal or plant) living or growing in the natural environment; not domesticated or cultivated.


So to me personally, they are WILD MUSTANGS. That is what we call them in Nevada, that is what my father, who was a Nevada Native, who I am also an Nevada Native, called them. So I shall continue to call them, Wild Mustangs. Enough said. I GREW UP with them.
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post #19 of 31 Old 09-25-2013, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by GreySorrel View Post
Because, I know the difference. So you know why I call them wild here is the definition:

fe·ral
ˈfi(ə)rəl,ˈferəl/
adjective
adjective: feral
1.
(esp. of an animal) in a wild state, esp. after escape from captivity or domestication.

wild
wīld/
adjective
adjective: wild
1.
(of an animal or plant) living or growing in the natural environment; not domesticated or cultivated.


So to me personally, they are WILD MUSTANGS. That is what we call them in Nevada, that is what my father, who was a Nevada Native, who I am also an Nevada Native, called them. So I shall continue to call them, Wild Mustangs. Enough said. I GREW UP with them.

And so have I, they are feral horses and the offspring are just that, spawn of feral horses born on the desert. They need to need managed.

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post #20 of 31 Old 09-25-2013, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreySorrel View Post
fe·ral
ˈfi(ə)rəl,ˈferəl/
adjective
adjective: feral
1.
(esp. of an animal) in a wild state, esp. after escape from captivity or domestication.
They are from escaped or released domesticated animals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreySorrel View Post
wild
wīld/
adjective
adjective: wild
1.
(of an animal or plant) living or growing in the natural environment; not domesticated or cultivated.
Ever try and work with a TRUE wild animal? Not so easy, and the GOV. certainly would not sell them to the highest bidder if they were in fact "Wild."

Ever heard of the Przewalski's horse? That is a true wild horse, it is extremely rare for one to ever be domesticated if one ever actually has been.
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