People got me depressed... - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 27 Old 08-01-2017, 04:37 PM
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I was looking at Old English Bulldog rescues just for the heck of it on Petfinder one day and I found one poor dog that needed some MAJOR surgery done to fix a cleft palate, nasal passages, and cherry eye in both eyes, plus a multitude of other health problems. I don't know how this guy was even able to see, eat, OR smell. I went to the "rescue" page and they wanted $5000 for this dog because he was a purebred (albeit a poorly bred purebred) and would NOT cover his surgery. These surgeries could run anywhere from $4,000 to upwards of $10,000 if there are complications. They said they did not have the money to cover his surgery costs. So instead of dropping the adoption fee they kept this poor guy for months upon months in this state because most adopters are not looking to spend that kind of money on an adoption fee, let alone having to pay surgery costs on top of that fee. I have no idea what became of that dog. I hope another rescue group stepped in and took him from this so called "rescue" group.

In my own area, we have one privately owned and run humane society (we have no public shelters) but it is open access. They euthanize approx. 75 cats and 45 dogs a month, for a county of about 35,000 people. They received an owner surrender of a blind and deaf (courtesy of the double merle gene) Aussie mix. I contacted a national organization that works with rescue groups and transports all across the nation to locate a home for this dog. We found one within a week AND found transport. They contacted the shelter here...to which our shelter said they do not need to work with outside resources because they are managing just fine. What!? That was almost six months ago. Guess where that dog is? Still sitting in our shelter. It astounds me sometimes that those who work in rescue play the "God Complex" and instead of doing what's right for the animal they would rather keep that dog because she is "good publicity" for the shelter in that they are helping special needs dogs (they won't euthanize her for this reason either). The national organization and every single other shelter/group they work with will no longer support nor endorse our shelter now (and neither will I) due to this incident.

I know we have the 501(c)3 listing and a lot of people assume this means that makes a rescue or group legitimate, but it really doesn't take much to get that designation. Our state does pretty good oversight on the horse rescues and all of ours are pretty decent. It's actually easier to adopt a horse from a rescue group here then it is to adopt a cat or a dog most of the time. The major rescue groups here that receive the most "screen time" and acknowledgement from the community don't have all of the requirements and "mortgage applications" because I think they know they will never get a dog or cat out the door if they do that, which means they won't be able to save as many. The groups that require you to sign over your soul and your firstborn child are the ones that usually end up going under or wind up being charged with animal cruelty or as hoarding cases later on because they keep saving animals and never get them out the door because nobody lives up to their standards.

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post #12 of 27 Old 08-01-2017, 04:44 PM
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This is the kind of thread that makes me want to go ride my horse.

Except for the fact that I just did and now it's too hot to ride, I would go and do just that. Because nothing fixes this stuff. Like the saying goes, the more I see of people the better I like my dog.
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post #13 of 27 Old 08-01-2017, 04:54 PM
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It makes me sad to see the posts on CL for all the pups and young dogs. Just because "I have kids and can't care for them" or "it doesn't fit into my work schedule" Uggghhhh It makes me mad! especially when I see a Border collie that is for free because it's to hyper! Well, if you didn't keep it locked up all day, then it wouldn't be hyper!! The amount of Pit Bulls that are in shelters, for free, or roaming around is sickening!




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Originally Posted by bsms View Post
I tried to adopt a Border Collie from a rescue. I was told he was "too high energy" for me. I probably ruined my chances when I pointed out the expert rescuer kept him in a cage 23 hours a day, and ANY Border Collie who was only free 60 minutes a day would be high energy. But if I hadn't already ruined my chances, they went in the toilet when I mentioned I had kids. A 10 year old.

"Border Collies are dangerous around kids. NO Border Collie should EVER be mixed with kids!"

Yeah...right. My youngest, many years before she took up riding horses.



Same dog, a blue merle BC from a farm in England, with my son:



Anyways, I wasn't allowed to adopt. A little while later, I saw a name of a guy who had Border Collies and an email address. I emailed him, explaining the situation, that the dog above had died a year before, and asked if he could help. To my surprise, he contacted me and gave me a contact for a breeding. He had a dog from the same breeding and said the dog was as good with kids as with sheep.

A few months later, the puppy arrived. A couple of years after that, I saw the guy's name again. He had won two national titles in the sheepdog trials, in the open category! Made me happy because he was super nice to me.

And 9 years later, my son & his family has moved in with us for a while, and the same Border Collie is teaching the 4 & 7 year olds about...dogs. He adores them. They adore him and his young GSD companion. He has problems with thunder ("The Sky Dogs are growling at me!") - so the kids sit by him and promise to protect him. He's given up sleeping by my bed and sleeps next to the kids. They NEED him. He knows. But...Border Collies and kids cannot be mixed!

I also looked at adopting a horse once. My horses live in a dry lot corral. I was told that wasn't good enough. Oh well.

I do get depressed by how many people treat animals. They often seem to care more about their I-Phone than their dogs, horses, cats, kids. I'm bothered more by what I see in the horse world than with dogs, but maybe that is because I don't live near the bad dog owners. Goodness knows, what people do to dogs in the name of shows is enough to depress anyone! How can someone claim to love dogs, but breed dogs who cannot breath, walk, etc? And then there are the people who breed mean dogs in the name of breeding guard dogs...

So when you get right down to it...what people do to animals IS depressing!


I HATE when people say BCs aren't good with kids! Ours get worried if they hear a kid scream and have to go check it out!
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post #14 of 27 Old 08-01-2017, 05:03 PM
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My BC was BRILLIANT with me (and she was BC/Rott so not mixed with anything one would think was particularly great with kids) and I was a really difficult little toerag. She tolerated crazy amounts of my hands in her mouth, in her ears, playing with her paws, pulling her tail... and yes, mum tried to stop me from doing all that, but the dog still needed to be extremely tolerant because what parent is able to watch their child every second of every day?
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post #15 of 27 Old 08-01-2017, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not against people posting on CL. I've gotten a lot of my animals from CL actually, most of which were rehomes. My mother's cat we got as a rehome at ten years old, she is 16 now and doing better than when we got her. I did get one lovebird from a breeder six years ago, and he is still with me and is the most awesome little birdie ever.

What makes me very sad is just the sheer number of people rehoming their animals because they've got young kids (come on, you had the kids BEFORE you got the animal), they don't have time for the animal in their life anymore, etc.

I am very much a 'bird person' in addition to being a horse person. I love birds, especially raptors and parrots. For years and years I have wanted a macaw. Sometimes I look around just to see what's out there. I looked at our local bird rescue, and found the adoption application to be beyond ridiculous. They wanted to know if you were married, what you did for a living, what your spouse did for a living, who lives with you, do they have bird experience, do you own or rent or live with family, how many animals do you have, are you prepared for a multitude of in home visits, etc. It was so overwhelming I didn't even finish reading through it, and I decided that I would rather once again adopt from a private owner via word of mouth or CL than from them! When I went to their 'adopted birds' page... the rescue has been running ten years and has only adopted out six birds. Meanwhile, they have hundreds that they are having to care for and find volunteers to help. I actually don't know how they keep it going.

I also very much dislike the tendency of 'animal advocates' and 'rescues' attacking people who wish to own a specific purebred dog. For myself, I either want a Black Russian Terrier or a Briard (someday). I have very specific reasons for wanting such a dog. And due to the protective nature (especially BRT) of these dogs, I don't want a rescue, I want a pup that I can raise and know it doesn't have a bunch of baggage to mix with its protective instincts, creating a dangerous and volatile dog.

Seems like people don't like you if you sit in the middle. You either have to be a full fledged 'rescuer' and HATE breeders, or you have to be a breeder and hate rescues (just my experience from the past few years).

"You can do something wrong for thirty years and call yourself experienced, you can do something right for a week and experience more than someone who spent thirty years doing the wrong thing." ~WhattaTroublemaker
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post #16 of 27 Old 08-01-2017, 11:18 PM
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@k9kenai That is an excellent point. (Regarding that rescue groups sometimes are too strict with their adoption procedures...)

I once wanted to adopt a Sheltie. I did a LOT of research on the breed, and determined it was the right fit for me. I lived in a rural area surrounded by fields and trees. Dog heaven. I reached out to a local sheltie rescue. They went as far as to doing a home visit and brought their pet sheltie w/ them. My home was absolutely immaculate when they visited and they told me their dog really liked me which was unusual because the dog was usually leery of strangers. That particular dog wasn't up for adoption but they wanted to see how interacted with him... anyway, the visit went about as well as it could have. But I never heard back from them and when I followed up later the only thing that they could determine was that I must have been denied because I didn't have a fenced in yard!

So I bought a Sheltie off Craigslist (from a good breeder). Granted, Shelties in our area are not common and if one ends up in a shelter it will be adopted in less than 24 hours. They are in pretty high demand. Nonetheless, the principle applies.
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post #17 of 27 Old 08-02-2017, 12:53 AM
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Hmm, so many 'rescue' people often have a lot to answer for I feel. They often 'rescue' animals for the ego trip IMO - are very quick to tell how many animals they've rescued & saved from what sort of abuse or neglect. Are often broke & unable to provide more than bare essentials for the animals, but believe that because it's better than they got at the last place, that's good enough. Many have no qualms about taking on more animals than they can even provide basic care for, then begging for money from others. And on top of all of that, they won't let animals go to a new home without passing the 'Spanish Inquisition'. Of course, there are GREAT rescuers out there too, and I do think people should have to pass a small 'inquisition' before being deemed suitable owner material, but...

Border collies... one of my previous dogs was BC/Kelpie. Not the best breed for a family dog. Had also shown some fear aggression of kids in the past. So I thought I really had my work cut out for me when my first baby came along. I definitely took nothing for granted & had to 'referee' some minor matters when the dog thought she had the right to 'discipline' the child, when I wasn't quite careful enough, but she & my daughters were definitely a team & she was a brilliant & patient family dog.

My parents in law told me they were going to adopt a dog, and asked me what type I advised, said they were thinking of 'rescuing' a BC. They were an older couple, they didn't have much knowledge of training or desire to go to classes, they weren't into long hikes or bikerides, and they had told me they didn't feel safe ever letting a dog off lead outside the small yard... So I told them a BC was definitely NOT the sort of dog I'd advise. So they brought home a 2yo BC that had had virtually no training in the past & had lived on a chain in someone's yard. They didn't chain her(except walking on a tight choke chain!), but had to build up their fences to keep her there. They allowed her inside, but only for short times(she wasn't housebroken) & when there were no visitors. They took her out once a day for a short walk on lead. When the young grandkids came over & she cowered from them. They frequently asked my advice(I was training dogs as a job at the time) & I repeatedly told them she needed training, exercise, stimulation & offered to help them. There were always excuses though, that they'd love my help but not right now... I tried to advise about getting her comfortable with kids, but they flat out refused to let the kids anywhere near the dog(which I would of course have been VERY careful about how to introduce too). My MIL was beside herself when the dog still hadn't 'grown up & calmed down' by 4yo.

At one stage, this untrained, unsocialised, understimulated, underexercised dog was about to bolt onto the road as someone left the gate open, I grabbed her and she turned and bit me. Softly actually, & I didn't blame her - she did it in fear & surprise at me grabbing her roughly & suddenly & after all, she'd never been taught not to. My MIL had her put down the next day as a dangerous dog! She wouldn't hear of rehoming her. Called it 'euthanasia' & I said don't dare call it that - euthanasia was not killing something to put it out of *someone else's* misery. I couldn't bring myself to talk to the woman at all for a few months after that. She still goes on about how much she loved the dog & 'rescued' her...
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post #18 of 27 Old 08-02-2017, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k9kenai View Post
I was looking at Old English Bulldog rescues just for the heck of it on Petfinder one day and I found one poor dog that needed some MAJOR surgery done to fix a cleft palate, nasal passages, and cherry eye in both eyes, plus a multitude of other health problems. I don't know how this guy was even able to see, eat, OR smell. I went to the "rescue" page and they wanted $5000 for this dog because he was a purebred (albeit a poorly bred purebred) and would NOT cover his surgery. These surgeries could run anywhere from $4,000 to upwards of $10,000 if there are complications. They said they did not have the money to cover his surgery costs. So instead of dropping the adoption fee they kept this poor guy for months upon months in this state because most adopters are not looking to spend that kind of money on an adoption fee, let alone having to pay surgery costs on top of that fee. I have no idea what became of that dog. I hope another rescue group stepped in and took him from this so called "rescue" group.
English bulldogs are some of the worst bred animals today, imo. There are so many of them around here, maybe because it's a national breed? But their popularity means that not only are they badly bred by show breeders, they suffer from a lot of backyard breeding as well. It really saddens me to see them, snuffling and grunting, finding it hard to breathe just walking around. And the owners think it's perfectly acceptable for a dog to be unable to exercise due to it's anatomy. Just think of all the joys of being a dog they have to miss out on.

I have also seen a rise in the olde English bulldogs here, which are much more like their ancient working ancestors. Less of a deformed face and they can actually breathe, they don't have the skeletomuscular problems that the show standard suffer with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie View Post
Hmm, so many 'rescue' people often have a lot to answer for I feel. They often 'rescue' animals for the ego trip IMO - are very quick to tell how many animals they've rescued & saved from what sort of abuse or neglect. Are often broke & unable to provide more than bare essentials for the animals, but believe that because it's better than they got at the last place, that's good enough. Many have no qualms about taking on more animals than they can even provide basic care for, then begging for money from others. And on top of all of that, they won't let animals go to a new home without passing the 'Spanish Inquisition'. Of course, there are GREAT rescuers out there too, and I do think people should have to pass a small 'inquisition' before being deemed suitable owner material, but...
I totally agree with the ego trip thing! I've known a lot of people working in rescue and many of them use it as a bragging right. I've known people who have had their animals removed by another rescue because they were so wrapped up with the status it gave them over the actual animal's welfare. And jeez, don't try and question their practise... Many of them definitely have this "holier than thou" air about them because they rescue animals.
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post #19 of 27 Old 08-02-2017, 05:50 AM
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I don't even have to go online, just step out of my door. We have so many abandoned dogs on the streets, it's heartbreaking. I cannot help them all. I get very depressed on a daily basis and I can't find a solution other than moving to more civilized country.

At least you guys have rescues. Your breeders don't seem to dump them in sacks into rivers or garbage bins. I'm not kidding, and it's not a once-off - it seems to be top two preferred methods of getting rid of unwanted puppies. Horrible, horrible people.

General population does it too. Spaying and neutering is generally seen as unhealthy and unnecessary so when their bitch is covered by whichever dog passed by, they take new-born puppies and throw them away. if the owner has kids or grandkids, they'll allow the bitch to raise the puppies to about two months old, all the while allowing the children to handle them however roughly they want and then throw them out.

It's a poor country and I do understand that there just isn't enough money to go around even for people, never mind poor abused animals.

Terrible, terrible suffering for the animals. I have no idea how to solve this and it's is having a very big negative influence on my life. I can't even go and volunteer at a rescue - I get overwhelmed at the conditions in rescues and the sheer numbers of dogs in dire condition we had to turn away for lack of space and funds.
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post #20 of 27 Old 08-02-2017, 09:14 AM
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Oh. I don't know what to say to you Horsef - must be awful to have to experience that without help, bad enough to hear about it & see occasional cruelty here... wish there was an answer... They have very recently (supposedly, to some degree at least...) stopped the trade of dogmeat in Vietnam, so if that's successful, anything's possible I suppose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiit View Post
I have also seen a rise in the olde English bulldogs here, which are much more like their ancient working ancestors. Less of a deformed face and they can actually breathe, they don't have the skeletomuscular problems that the show standard suffer with.
That's a nice change! Lets hope. How's how different many of these 'modern' dogs look compared to their breed standards of centuries ago?? They started off as mostly *healthy* working dogs & have gradually been 'refined'... if only the 'showies' placed as much importance on health & soundness.
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