Possible welfare case/concerned about horses - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 07-04-2019, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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Possible welfare case/concerned about horses

Hi everyone, there’s something that’s really been playing on my mind recently about a riding school I have been going to for a while. Basically, it’s a hacking stables where you can loan out their horses in the week, but the horses are ridden at the weekend. They offer lessons too for jumping and flat. At the weekend the stable opens at 10:00 and then closes at 3:30, and each ride is 1.00hr to 1.30hr long, with the horses getting a 30 minute break. The problems are that the yard is run by girls under the ages of 15, but the owner is present onsite (owner is around 45) and even though these girls know next to nothing about horses, they still tack them up and everything in the morning and also do care throughout the day, but don’t really look after the horses.

This yard does not worm, vaccinate, Medicate, get the farrier out, call the vet out, never gets the dentist out, and no tack fits the horses. The saddles cause the horses to react in pain when they are placed on their backs, and some horses get angry because it hurts them. No saddles fit the horses and I have seen a lot of nerve damadge and extreme tenderness, soreness and twitching due to this.

A lot of the horses are over 20, only 2 are under the age of 20. One horse is actually 32 and is still ridden from 10:00 until 3:30. A lot of young girls that go there do not know that the horses are suffering. For example, my favourite horse (23) has arthritis in 3 joints on his legs, can’t even trot, constant trips and is now clicking when he walks, but a lot of the girls force him to canter with whips and the yard owner has been made aware but just states “oh he was fine earlier he’ll be okay”.

Another horse actually nearly died as he had massive muscle wastage, and nearly collapsed. He looked deathly but was still being used in the school & welfare had to get involved to push the owner to cure the horse and get a vet out. If welfare were not involved she would have let her die.

Most of the horses there are probably arthritic and being worked for 5 hours, hard, with no water or little water is just cruel, especially for over 20 year old horses.

I keep an eye on things and have rectified a couple of issues but now I am starting a loan elsewhere I won’t be there to look out for the poor 23 year old and I have an opportunity to help him, but then I would be profiting the yard owner? I’m worried if I don’t look after this horse some other girl will run him into the ground and kill him.
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post #2 of 15 Old 07-04-2019, 01:06 PM
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When you say you have an opportunity t help the 23-year-old, what do you mean? That you could buy him and move him to a new place where he would be taken care of? If so, then I would say to do it, even if it profits the yard owner. Don't let him suffer because you want her to suffer, too.

If things are really as bad as you say, could you call out animal welfare again? You're in the UK and I'm in Texas, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but it sounds like our animal welfare protection is better than yours? Or maybe it's just a matter of laws not being enforced? Our laws would allow for the removal of horses in conditions like you describe.
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post #3 of 15 Old 07-04-2019, 01:07 PM
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Sadly, if you don't own, unless you want to make a official report to the authorities with a signature and proof of who you say you are....nothing happens.
Nothing may happen even if you did make a complaint.
I know you say...but if you are not their every day, every hour of business and before/after hours you don't know the full facts.
I don't doubt what you say, but...
Somehow kids running a business doesn't exactly seem realistic nor profitable to the gentleman owner.
Kids...who go to school...who "runs" the business when they are in school, takes care of daily chores...
Right now school is on holiday but the care of said animals never goes on vacation so someone is doing that care when you are not around...


Make sure your facts are really facts and not perceived actions if you are going to make a charge.
But unless you own said animal, it is not yours to make determinations nor changes for the animal.
Even knowing what you know....you yourself ride the horse don't you?
Perception...you need facts and proof and then maybe, maybe something might happen.
...
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post #4 of 15 Old 07-04-2019, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horselovinguy View Post
Sadly, if you don't own, unless you want to make a official report to the authorities with a signature and proof of who you say you are....nothing happens.
Nothing may happen even if you did make a complaint.
I know you say...but if you are not their every day, every hour of business and before/after hours you don't know the full facts.
I don't doubt what you say, but...
Somehow kids running a business doesn't exactly seem realistic nor profitable to the gentleman owner.
Kids...who go to school...who "runs" the business when they are in school, takes care of daily chores...
Right now school is on holiday but the care of said animals never goes on vacation so someone is doing that care when you are not around...


Make sure your facts are really facts and not perceived actions if you are going to make a charge.
But unless you own said animal, it is not yours to make determinations nor changes for the animal.
Even knowing what you know....you yourself ride the horse don't you?
Perception...you need facts and proof and then maybe, maybe something might happen.
<img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://www.horseforum.com/images/smilies/runninghorse2.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Runninghorse2" class="inlineimg" />...
I have know this stables for many years but have not always been aware of these issues. Kids running the yard is bad, they do not know basic tack or how to tack up a horse properly, let alone how to pick hooves properly. They bomb around on the horses and I know this because I have a a few more mature friends that have livery from the owner, witness it myself, and also have a friend that loans from the owner. The owner does not care for the horses and I know this for a fact and have a source. The appearance and symptoms these horses show make it clear the “business” is exactly as I see it.
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post #5 of 15 Old 07-04-2019, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACinATX View Post
When you say you have an opportunity t help the 23-year-old, what do you mean? That you could buy him and move him to a new place where he would be taken care of? If so, then I would say to do it, even if it profits the yard owner. Don't let him suffer because you want her to suffer, too.

If things are really as bad as you say, could you call out animal welfare again? You're in the UK and I'm in Texas, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but it sounds like our animal welfare protection is better than yours? Or maybe it's just a matter of laws not being enforced? Our laws would allow for the removal of horses in conditions like you describe.
I have an opportunity to loan him which means I can get him supplements, fitted tack, a vet check, injections, and to make his life enjoyable again, by like I said, the money that I give to her to loan the horse is just profiting her. And animal welfare has already been to inspect one horse, in which they said that they will close the business is the horse is not properly cared for and medicated, and so she complied that one time. I would love to contact the RSPCA or WOrld horse welfare, but seeing as they already saw one horse and let her continue, I feel they wouldn’t do anything which is so upsetting because the horses are clearly in pain and overworked 7 days a week.
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post #6 of 15 Old 07-04-2019, 01:55 PM
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If you loan him out and take care of him, what's to stop the barn owner or the kids who are running the place from letting others ride him when you're not there? If barn owner is like what you desrcibed, it seems like she'd be like, "Oh, hey, this horse is doing so much better now, let me just let more people ride him now."
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post #7 of 15 Old 07-04-2019, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyPony16 View Post
I have know this stables for many years but have not always been aware of these issues. Kids running the yard is bad, they do not know basic tack or how to tack up a horse properly, let alone how to pick hooves properly. They bomb around on the horses and I know this because I have a a few more mature friends that have livery from the owner, witness it myself, and also have a friend that loans from the owner. The owner does not care for the horses and I know this for a fact and have a source. The appearance and symptoms these horses show make it clear the “business” is exactly as I see it.
It may indeed be true what you comment on...
Horses tack may not be used correctly but it is correct enough that the horses are ridden and revenue made from them hacking out.
Feet are maintained enough, or not and in the wild excess breaks off or wears down...same on this hack line.
Feet not picked, well if the horses are out walking across varied terrain often much of the packed in yuck is coming out.
Some business owners are in business to make money, apparently this is a lucrative business to support animals and business owner.
The "needs" of the horses though are being met.
Hay, water and a place to rest/shelter may not be to your liking but it is provided and when that happens, bad as it sounds the authorities can do nothing.
Basics of care are met, period.
If these animals are walking skeletons then you have proof the authorities need to know about.
You still can not positively say a horse is not wormed or vet care for a serious occurrence when what you determine to be serious and what another evaluates a situations severity is going to be very different.
What I can do is far more than many and would not need vet intervention, but...again, you don't own you have no right to condemn.
I'm sorry but you do not.


Buy the horse and take it from this place if you object so much...
Do not invest one cent in any care items for the horse. If she improves one bit she will work harder and anything you bring and leave for this horse will be gone and used on other animals or thrown away and be wasted.
I can't stress enough, the horse is not yours.
Even if you provide proper tack you are not present when the horses are tacked every day they work to put it on "correctly" and can guarantee that anything you give for this horses use is going to either get wrecked, disappear or be broken.
Don't, just don't use your money to benefit the owner of the hack line of horses...
If you are accurate in your comments what you do is not going to improve the animals life but make it worse when it is now worked harder...do you see.
Sometimes doing nothing is better for the animal.
If you can buy and remove the animal to a different barn, do it...otherwise do nothing much as it hurts.
If you are a minor, then you must have your parents/guardian make the complaint as to my knowledge a minor, a teen/minor can not make such a charge against anyone.
...
jmo..
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post #8 of 15 Old 07-04-2019, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACinATX View Post
If you loan him out and take care of him, what's to stop the barn owner or the kids who are running the place from letting others ride him when you're not there? If barn owner is like what you desrcibed, it seems like she'd be like, "Oh, hey, this horse is doing so much better now, let me just let more people ride him now."
The thing is, even though he isn’t well, they push him just as hard as when he was so there’s extra punishment for him. She is decent in the way that she will not allow anyone else to loan or ride/look after him now that he is under my care.
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post #9 of 15 Old 07-04-2019, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horselovinguy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyPony16 View Post
I have know this stables for many years but have not always been aware of these issues. Kids running the yard is bad, they do not know basic tack or how to tack up a horse properly, let alone how to pick hooves properly. They bomb around on the horses and I know this because I have a a few more mature friends that have livery from the owner, witness it myself, and also have a friend that loans from the owner. The owner does not care for the horses and I know this for a fact and have a source. The appearance and symptoms these horses show make it clear the “business” is exactly as I see it.
It may indeed be true what you comment on...
Horses tack may not be used correctly but it is correct enough that the horses are ridden and revenue made from them hacking out.
Feet are maintained enough, or not and in the wild excess breaks off or wears down...same on this hack line.
Feet not picked, well if the horses are out walking across varied terrain often much of the packed in yuck is coming out.
Some business owners are in business to make money, apparently this is a lucrative business to support animals and business owner.
The "needs" of the horses though are being met.
Hay, water and a place to rest/shelter may not be to your liking but it is provided and when that happens, bad as it sounds the authorities can do nothing.
Basics of care are met, period.
If these animals are walking skeletons then you have proof the authorities need to know about.
You still can not positively say a horse is not wormed or vet care for a serious occurrence when what you determine to be serious and what another evaluates a situations severity is going to be very different.
What I can do is far more than many and would not need vet intervention, but...again, you don't own you have no right to condemn.
I'm sorry but you do not.


Buy the horse and take it from this place if you object so much...
Do not invest one cent in any care items for the horse. If she improves one bit she will work harder and anything you bring and leave for this horse will be gone and used on other animals or thrown away and be wasted.
I can't stress enough, the horse is not yours.
Even if you provide proper tack you are not present when the horses are tacked every day they work to put it on "correctly" and can guarantee that anything you give for this horses use is going to either get wrecked, disappear or be broken.
Don't, just don't use your money to benefit the owner of the hack line of horses...
If you are accurate in your comments what you do is not going to improve the animals life but make it worse when it is now worked harder...do you see.
Sometimes doing nothing is better for the animal.
If you can buy and remove the animal to a different barn, do it...otherwise do nothing much as it hurts.
If you are a minor, then you must have your parents/guardian make the complaint as to my knowledge a minor, a teen/minor can not make such a charge against anyone.
<img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://www.horseforum.com/images/smilies/runninghorse2.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Runninghorse2" class="inlineimg" />...
jmo..
Ecactly, this is why I feel the rescues and overall means for removal are poor and welfare should improve. If she keeps getting horses that have to be inspected because they are nearly dying then yes, she will be closed, and I hope for the horses that they have no more ill health but at the same time, just want them to be retired to go companion homes and to be medically treated...):
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post #10 of 15 Old 07-04-2019, 05:23 PM
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Even though this riding school isn’t very likely to be BHS approved it still has to be licensed by the local council of wherever it is.
To get that license the horses have to be fit and healthy and suitable for the job they’re doing. They have to be checked by an inspector to verify that and can be spot checked at any time
If the girls under 16 are always supervised by an adult there’s nothing that can be done about that

If you’re worried then call the council offices and put in a complaint.

Just winging it is not a plan
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