Potential Buy APHA Colt / APHA Look Up - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 19 Old 06-23-2013, 10:18 PM
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He's not worth enough money for her to test him nor geld him for you. For that price, it's up to you to do those things. When you are paying more for a horse, it is expected that they are tested. But for less than a $1000, it's hardly worth a vet check in my opinion.


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post #12 of 19 Old 06-23-2013, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians View Post
Tell her, "His not being tested and your unwillingness to test is a deal killer for me. I won't be out to see him. Thank you for your time.". And go find another horse. The test for HERDA alone is only $35. There is no excuse for her not to test him. From a quick look at his pedigree, it looks like the worst he could be is a carrier, but I would want WRITTEN documentation that that was indeed the case.
Oh, its only $35? I'll tell her that. I think she doesn't want to test him because she thinks its going to be expensive, but she's already having the vet out to do his shots so no farm charge. Do you know how long I'd have to wait to find out the results?

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post #13 of 19 Old 06-23-2013, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by oh vair oh View Post
He's not worth enough money for her to test him nor geld him for you. For that price, it's up to you to do those things. When you are paying more for a horse, it is expected that they are tested. But for less than a $1000, it's hardly worth a vet check in my opinion.
If she were to geld him she is asking $1,000 but in my opinion I think gelding at that age isn't right, like spaying/neutering an eight week old cat or dog.

So you're saying I should buy a horse that might possibly have a disorder that could cause me to have to put him down in the near future? I don't know much about HERDA, because I just found out about it but from what I understand HERDA impairs healing, creates lesions all over the body, and makes it easier for them to get a bad cut because of the fibers connecting the skin to the body are weakened.. am I wrong?

Also, isn't illegal to sell a sick/unsound horse? Or is that only if you can prove that the seller knew that the horse was ill?

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post #14 of 19 Old 06-23-2013, 11:59 PM
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Testing for HERDA has nothing to do with a vet. The owner pulls out tail or mane hair and sends it to the lab (with the paperwork & fee). The lab then obtains DNA from the skin that is on the roots of the hair.

Results take 5-10 business days from the day the lab receives the hair, and they can be viewed online.

Personally, I only saw one trace back to poco bueno on the sire's side. I doubt this colt is even a carrier, and I would put the $35 into gelding him soon.. His pedigree is nothing stellar for the first few generations, and the only reason she *may* get more than $500 for him is because he is grullo.

He will make a great gelding, and if you like him, he will be a pretty riding horse. I don't think I would use the HERDA testing as a bargaining chip. Accoring to the APHA website, she didn't register him until 4-1-13 which means she paid extra since he was over 12 months. Thus, she may be less likely to dicker over price.

Don't give a reason for your offer. There is no need to point out faults of the horse, or defects in the seller's breeding/sale program. By looking/making an offer, you have already implied your interest and willingness to live with any imperfections. If you want to make an offer, you just say, "I'll give you $X in cash for him with original papers, a signed transfer, and a bill of sale." If she is interested, she may counter-offer. Then you can decide if you want to continue to haggle.
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post #15 of 19 Old 06-24-2013, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SRCM16 View Post
If she were to geld him she is asking $1,000 but in my opinion I think gelding at that age isn't right, like spaying/neutering an eight week old cat or dog.

So you're saying I should buy a horse that might possibly have a disorder that could cause me to have to put him down in the near future? I don't know much about HERDA, because I just found out about it but from what I understand HERDA impairs healing, creates lesions all over the body, and makes it easier for them to get a bad cut because of the fibers connecting the skin to the body are weakened.. am I wrong?

Also, isn't illegal to sell a sick/unsound horse? Or is that only if you can prove that the seller knew that the horse was ill?
It's totally Buyer Beware when buying a horse. She doesn't have to disclose anything she doesn't know about and by not testing, she can honestly say she doesn't know if he's a carrier or not.

She doesn't need the vet to do the testing, she can pull tail hairs and send them to the lab at this link: HERDA - Hereditary Equine Regional Dermal Asthenia. She could have the results back in about a week to 10 days, or that's been my experience with this lab.

HERDA doesn't do anything if the horse is only a carrier. It's a recessive which means father and mother both have to contribute the gene for it to be a problem for him. I'm not familiar enough with the horses in his dam line to say for sure, but it looks like he only has 1 line to Poco Bueno in his sire line. That's why I said it APPEARS the worst he can be is a carrier. If that's true, as a gelding it won't matter, he won't pass it on. I'm a real stickler for genetic testing and won't touch a horse that has a possibility of carrying something unless I have the test results in hand. I feel you can live with a lot if you can make a truly informed decision. If she won't do the test, I'd walk away.

As an old breeder, I recommend gelding as early as possible. I just gelded a solid paint colt at 2 1/2 months. There are benefits to gelding early, including increased size. I won't allow a colt I don't consider breeding quality off this property until it's gelded. PERIOD. For one, I don't want someone breeding substandard quality foals because I didn't geld when I should have and two, it's a liability issue. If I sell a colt and don't geld, if the buyer hits hard times and can't afford to geld and the stallion gets unruly or the buyer doesn't have the knowledge to handle a stallion, legally it may not be my fault but I'll always feel like it was if someone gets hurt.

Where I am, gelding costs me approx $115. There's no excuse to send off a gelding quality colt intact.


Last edited by Dreamcatcher Arabians; 06-24-2013 at 12:05 AM.
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post #16 of 19 Old 06-24-2013, 12:10 AM
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Gelding him now will not hurt him in any way. There is loads of evidence based medicine and research on that, so I won't link anything in particular. Most of the "wait until he's fully grown" crowd is supported merely by personal opinions. But, it doesn't bother me what other people do with their property.


She has no legal requirement to test him, and no responsibility because he doesn't come from known carriers. It is not illegal because no one can say that she knows/or should have known he was defective. There is no criminal or civil negligence. (and I do have a law degree)

Also, by now it should be pretty obvious if he were H/H for HERDA. You could just give his skin a once over, or pay the vet to do it.
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post #17 of 19 Old 06-24-2013, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CCH View Post
Testing for HERDA has nothing to do with a vet. The owner pulls out tail or mane hair and sends it to the lab (with the paperwork & fee). The lab then obtains DNA from the skin that is on the roots of the hair.

Results take 5-10 business days from the day the lab receives the hair, and they can be viewed online.

Personally, I only saw one trace back to poco bueno on the sire's side. I doubt this colt is even a carrier, and I would put the $35 into gelding him soon.. His pedigree is nothing stellar for the first few generations, and the only reason she *may* get more than $500 for him is because he is grullo.

He will make a great gelding, and if you like him, he will be a pretty riding horse. I don't think I would use the HERDA testing as a bargaining chip. Accoring to the APHA website, she didn't register him until 4-1-13 which means she paid extra since he was over 12 months. Thus, she may be less likely to dicker over price.

Don't give a reason for your offer. There is no need to point out faults of the horse, or defects in the seller's breeding/sale program. By looking/making an offer, you have already implied your interest and willingness to live with any imperfections. If you want to make an offer, you just say, "I'll give you $X in cash for him with original papers, a signed transfer, and a bill of sale." If she is interested, she may counter-offer. Then you can decide if you want to continue to haggle.
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I didn't know how they got tested, and just started doing some research on it yesterday. Thanks for explaining how to get him tested it will help when I'm talking to her tomorrow.

The only reason why I was concerned is because it said that the colt's grand sire was a carrier, but after doing some more research tonight I feel a little better about purchasing him.

I don't plan on using an excuse, just pretty much saying what you said. Lol.

It's something you need almost like air or water. ♥
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post #18 of 19 Old 06-24-2013, 09:42 AM
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If you like him get him!

Have her sign papers that states that she'll buy him back if he tests positive. Done deal, it's only $35, small price for you to pay.

He looks cute and I can't wait for more photos!
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Last edited by FlyGap; 06-24-2013 at 09:46 AM.
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post #19 of 19 Old 06-24-2013, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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Well, he's mine. (: The woman was very nice, and has done a great job with him so far. Great little colt, very gentle and respectful.

Only got one "conformation" picture because it was really buggy out today and he kept kicking out at them (why he's standing funny), and the ground wasn't level at all so no point in trying so he's actually pretty level compared to some yearlings I've seen.












It's something you need almost like air or water. ♥
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