Rant warning! Years do not equate experience/horsemanship - Page 4 - The Horse Forum
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post #31 of 53 Old 02-23-2017, 11:36 PM
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I will admit that I was one of those people who thought they knew it all after riding for approx. 5 years on school horses in an indoor arena for an hour each week. I thought I was ready for a green horse when I turned 20 and went and bought a three turning four year old running bred paint gelding. A few nasty falls later and a few trips to the hospital to make sure I didn't break my hip AND at one point dislocating my hip (needing chiropractic work to fix it over a span of four weeks because I left it thinking I was just sore). I realized that he wasn't the right horse for me. Now in the time I had him I did learn a lot from the people I kept him at (Where I still have horses at), and realized I didn't know it all.

And with the help of my BO (I think that stands for barn owner :/), Over the past four years I've learned a lot and I'm still learning. I even successfully got Wyatt down the trails from buying him as a started 4 year old last year. I just had to learn the hard way. Thankfully Apollo has a home with someone who loves him.
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post #32 of 53 Old 02-23-2017, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mkat View Post
I soooo feel you. Several times I have personally delt with this kind of stupid. I got berated by a former boarder because she was 'oh so exsperianced and I didn't know what I was talking about. She used to run a bigger boarding/Training operation" when I suggest her not taking her underweight (I had just started managing the facility) poorly trained 2.5 year old who had been acting collicy out on a 12 mile trail ride. Long story short the colt went down on the trail she dumped him back in the pasture without saying anything untill much much later when she yelled at me for cauing him to go down because "I had clearly given him to much oil in his morning mush" that he hadn't even touched. Clearly her years of exsperiance made her right. She did not remain a boarder with me long after that.
Another time I was working for a "stable" right out of high school. Looking back I can see it for what it really was a back yard breeding operation. Towards the end of my time working there several mares where in foal I had asked the owner when she wanted to pull them off the fescue. She told me that she wasn't going to she was sure it would be fine she was raised on horses and never had an issue. I should have quit right then and there, but being young and nieve I stayed on. She refused to ever let me call a vet 2 ofthe mares redbaged after being a month overdue and they blamed becaused I "stressed them" by moving them to a pasture where I could monitor them.
Your rant caused me to rant.
Please don't insult good experienced hrose people with backyard horse collectors
That is like calling someone who has driven drunk for years, an experienced driver
It does show though, that many here ranting away, have not the experience in the horse industry, to be able to tell the good experienced horsemen, whether they be breeders,trainers,farriers, from the bad, Unfortunately that takes experience/time in the horse community and often by learning through the school of hard knocks!
What years do, is help you sort out those that truly are experienced, and who not just put in time, making the same mistakes over and over again
That applies to nay profession, and you only need to look at the long time vet or family doctor, who never attends any seminars,to those that continuing learning latest research, and not just stay content to practice what they learned some 20 odd years ago or more. Take the latter example, and then yes, years do make a difference

Last edited by Smilie; 02-23-2017 at 11:55 PM.
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post #33 of 53 Old 02-23-2017, 11:54 PM
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FYI, anyone who doles out unsolicited advice, beware. The ones who can teach you something worthwhile, will charge you for it.

I am not here to promote anythingNo, that's not true, I am here to promote everything equestrian and everyone enjoying horses!
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post #34 of 53 Old 02-24-2017, 12:52 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
Please don't insult good experienced hrose people with backyard horse collectors
That is like calling someone who has driven drunk for years, an experienced driver
It does show though, that many here ranting away, have not the experience in the horse industry, to be able to tell the good experienced horsemen, whether they be breeders,trainers,farriers, from the bad, Unfortunately that takes experience/time in the horse community and often by learning through the school of hard knocks!
What years do, is help you sort out those that truly are experienced, and who not just put in time, making the same mistakes over and over again
That applies to nay profession, and you only need to look at the long time vet or family doctor, who never attends any seminars,to those that continuing learning latest research, and not just stay content to practice what they learned some 20 odd years ago or more. Take the latter example, and then yes, years do make a difference
Well said Smilie, it's important to be able to tell the good from the bad. As someone else said, a good horse person doesn't need to talk themselves up. Good horsemanship speaks for itself.

Just IMO, those who post with an immature tone lose respect in my eyes. I endeavor to be polite and courteous with all whom I speak with, and not sound like a gossiping high school girl. For those people who apply to my first post, I follow a 'smile and nod' routine, until their words or actions cause harm or hurt to an animal or person.
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"You can do something wrong for thirty years and call yourself experienced, you can do something right for a week and experience more than someone who spent thirty years doing the wrong thing." ~WhattaTroublemaker
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post #35 of 53 Old 02-24-2017, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
It does show though, that many here ranting away, have not the experience in the horse industry, to be able to tell the good experienced horsemen, whether they be breeders,trainers,farriers, from the bad, Unfortunately that takes experience/time in the horse community and often by learning through the school of hard knocks!
That's exactly it for beginners and novice people like me. It's like me trying to figure out which nuclear scientist is talking rubbish and which one knows his stuff.

If a person is coming into contact with horses for the first time there is no way to distinguish good from bad advice. I learned the hard way, but it left me with a lot of distrust of all advice given.
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post #36 of 53 Old 02-24-2017, 04:29 AM
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I have never heard of the deep bedding as being manure. Here it would be a layer of straw and then shavings or just a deep bed of either . Manure is not meant to be stood in, that poor horse . I have also seen people make puddles in the manure to stand a horse in to soften it hooves. You make puddles in dirt or sand .

I know some well respected horse trainers, and they will give people a little advice, but are very cautious about doing so, because of liability issues.

I also know people who have ridden for years, and trained personal horses, ridden horses out for other people and just let their advice go in one ear and out the other.

There are also the people that make sense . Last but not least are the people that fill you with wonders and awes, like it makes me wonder how you can walk and not fall down . I smile and nod at those, and laugh at home.
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post #37 of 53 Old 02-24-2017, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horseluvr2524 View Post
Personally, I just think there are better ways to keep a horse warm than deep bedding. I believe I read that deep bedding causes respiratory problems, but can't remember where.

I mean, there's blankets, free choice hay, keeping them in with other horses (they definitely keep each other warm!), etc.
None of them are mutually exclusive. But I'll tell you, deep bedding is an ancient, proven, method of keeping livestock warm in cold-winter climes. I even have read that under British animal husbandry laws, deep bedding is *required* in some circumstances.
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post #38 of 53 Old 02-24-2017, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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@Avna

Which brings us back to one of my main points in this thread, haha; that there are billions of right, good, and correct ways to take care of a horse around the world!

I just wouldn't be able to leave manure in my horse's stall, even under clean bedding. But to each his own.

"You can do something wrong for thirty years and call yourself experienced, you can do something right for a week and experience more than someone who spent thirty years doing the wrong thing." ~WhattaTroublemaker
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post #39 of 53 Old 02-24-2017, 03:45 PM
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And if you(general ) are one that leaves manure then you (again general) have to compensate for that with extra bedding. The bed shouldn't start as manure. Horse people (most) are picky. Pun intended. They remove the manure that is piled on top because the idea of manure in the bedding is repugnant. Either way can be done and with no issue if you understand what you are trying to accomplish and have a basic knowledge of the process. All manure is a nitrogen source, all manure contains bacteria. Treat it right and it works for you not against you.
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post #40 of 53 Old 02-24-2017, 04:45 PM
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I think it really depends.

The most inexperienced people often talk the loudest and spout their opinions left and right as if they're fact. They're the people who call themselves "trainers" and WAY WAY blow their experience out of proportion and think because they can talk the talk, they can walk the walk when in reality they have no business teaching and don't know nearly enough to even realize how little they actually know. I'm VERY VERY weary of trainers who don't continue their education with accomplished trainers/riders. Because in a given discipline if a trainer isn't relatively accomplished I won't train with them, though I've also seen trainers who have competed FEI and are really not good riders or I wouldn't let on my horse because they lack any kind of feel or tact. It gives capable people a bad name. You get it in every discipline.

In general I stick to myself and "lay low." I have quite a bit of experience but people stress me out. I keep away from drama, socialization and people in general and just enjoy my horses, my education and developing a good relationship with my horses and the horse's I develop. I love my trainers, I love going to clinics and learning because I enjoy the journey. I don't think anyone's education is ever "complete" I think there is just more of being a student. I'll help where asked because it helps me think about better ways to explain something or see it as an opportunity to help someone but I've never felt compelled to go up to someone and talk about my "accomplishments." And when people do that or start imposing points of view with blind arrogance and no openness to discussion or conversation, I just nod my head politely and let them talk because there is no point in trying to reason with them and I wont waste my time or energy trying to convince someone to listen to reason.

I've had people say a lot of rude things to me. I ride a lot of babies and I've had some difficult horses and Ill often hear the greatest amount of arrogance from riders who don't have anywhere near the amount of experience they think they do. I know a few girls who've only ever ridden schoolmasters or old enough horses that they're not babies who will offer incredibly inaccurate "advice" or "ideas" on how they'd ride my youngsters and I just nod politely and laugh in my mind because they'd get thrown into a wall and would be stunned when they couldn't steer and realize the babies don't understand the aids of an adult and dont tolerate the same mistakes. It also makes me laugh because when you have all youngster, people seem to think you can't do the "upper level stuff" when riding ability isn't really determined by what level you show at or what you have going. Or at least in dressage you see a very wide variety of methods, skill level and ways to develop a horse. Not all are good ways but a lot of times people judge a person's ability off of the level they show at when there is a huge range of skill/knowledge/ability at every level. I've seen training level riders with more complete riding ability than FEI trainers. It just makes me laugh because Ive gone to shows and thought some novice riders had their horses going better than their trainers. Then some people seem to think if someone is "stuck" developing babies its because someone is capable enough to ride a schooled horse but really it's because someone is accomplished enough that they're asked to develop babies. It's a HUGE responsibility and takes a lot of skill and it's unfortunate it's a skill that isn't appreciated. I feel a HUGE difference between a well developed youngster and one with someone who doesn't really know what they're doing but thinks they do. But people always have to validate themselves, regardless of what is true or reasonable.

Or I'll also hear people write off rider ability because of horse "quality" which I don't get because a lot of times those higher quality horses take a lot more skill to ride well and to make them appear that "nice." Talented horses are often very athletic, highly intelligent, sensitive and have their own mind. It takes a good deal of tact and sensitivity to earn their partnership, as well as sometimes they have such large-powerful gaits it takes a lot of skill to organize it.

Basically what this ramble is about is there are a very wide variety of horse people with varying experience levels. A lot of passionate, opinionated people, a lot of condescending, snobby rude people and in general every discipline, every area of the horse world comes with a variety of different people. If people are rude/condescending and blindly arrogant, I'll interrupt and contradict them with experience but in general I just let them stew in their own. If their head is that far up their butt, they can live up there as long as there horse is ok. We're all learning, we're all growing (or should be) and should be supportive of each other. The only reason I see people tear down others or be intentionally condescending/rude, etc is because they're insecure or too inexperienced to realize they're inexperienced. And you can't reason with them, in general I just avoid them and keep living my life, enjoy my riding, continue in my education and love my horses.
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Last edited by DanteDressageNerd; 02-24-2017 at 04:58 PM.
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