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The real cost of kill pen rescues

24K views 228 replies 29 participants last post by  AtokaGhosthorse 
#1 · (Edited)
I found an interesting article on Facebook, titled 'Kill pen rescues, are you really saving alife'\

Since Facebook links are not allowed, I googled the topic. Basically, it goes into the kill pen scam, where some horses are bought by those meat buyers, never intended to fill their meat quota, but a way to make money, to help buy horses that will go to slaughter, never offered to be rescued
These horses are sold above meat price.

https://equineassist.org/kill-pen-rescues-the-real-cost/


https://www.pressreader.com/usa/equus/20170201/282029031931436
 
#83 ·
Look, we are way, way, way off topic, going into whether you can bury a horse or not, how you deal with your own faithful horse when the time comes
I certainly never want a horse of mine to wind up on anyone's dinner plate, nor see a horse of mine face his end at a slaughter plant. They are put down, grieved over and buried. However, what I do with my own horses, or any other horse owner out there that loves their horse(s) does, has no impact on the huge pool pf un wanted horses out there, who, if not given the slaughter option, instead become neglected, starved, facing a far worse long drawn out and painful death


THOSE HoRSES, owned by people who love them, are nOT the horses that wind up in slaughter!!!!
 
#85 · (Edited)
In Alabama the state law only requires that the animal (once deceased) must be burned or buried within 24hrs (if not intended for food) and the body must be below a minimum of 2 feet of soil if buried. There can be restrictions depending on county or city laws - if you are in an area where the water table is high, you are in a watershed, you are within a residential area (depending on zoning laws), within so many feet of a well or residence it may well be against the law. It would also be common sense if not against the law. So for those in the region I live burial is not always an option and I know those that have burned, buried and donated to the zoo or alligator farms.

Our vets (specific to my location) offer to have your animal hauled off and burned for a fee (or hauled for burial if you have a location available) if PTS on their site. They don't have the space if they have land or for a couple that only operate mobile service the land to even consider the option of burying their clients horses on their property (clinic or personal).

You must be much further north in more rural areas.
 
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#95 ·
Not sure where you are located, but I am definitely in a rural area, or at least the vets are, lol.

Don't personally know of any vets that burn the horses, but that doesn't mean they don't exist around here. You are not referring to cremation though are you? Burning as in bonfire type? That could definitely be an option for all those "unwanted" horses that would not be as expensive as cremation.

I am still thinking of that cow-pile someone mentioned where they just pile up the dead cattle. Going to do some asking around to find out what folks around here do with theirs. It could be a sensitive subject for some folks, so may take me some time to find out what is the generally accepted method of disposal.
 
#87 ·
Perhaps a new thread, as to putting down your own horse, and various laws, considerations, depending on where you are located.

However, the point discussed here, is, what to do with all the surplus un wanted horses, with slaughter being part of that topic
That topic has also been beaten to death, on other threads.
Thus to try and make my stance clear as possible, in as a condensed form as possible, in relationship to those un wnated horses,here goes.

First, I believe any horse that has served you faithfully, deserves that final gift, when the time comes, of having him put down by a vet, in his familiar surroundings and with that special person in that horse's life, being there
What is done with the body afterwards, is a personal choice, and based on laws where you live

NOw,on to the solution of unwanted horses.When slaughter was banned in the USA, that did those horses no good service in the end. Many of those horses were then shipped to mexico, where there are no slaughter or transport regulations.
When the economy got tough, many other horses were simply abandoned. People were locking their trailers, not because they might be stollen, but because they were liable to find an extra horse, similar to un wanted cats and dogs,dumped in the country, thinking some kind person is going to take them in
Others were simply neglected, no vet care, often not enough food.
Meanwhile, no regulations on supply and demand, far as horse breeding.
Thus, slaughter became a better option for those horses, versus neglect, shipping to mexico, ect, etc
 
#88 ·
The other day my farrier mentioned that he had heard that they had passed a bill to allow the slaughter houses to take in horses again. I asked him if that included money for the federal inspectors to do the inspections because otherwise it's no different than what's been done several times over the last few years. They say, "It's ok to use the slaughter houses to process horses." but when you look deeper there's still no money to fund the inspectors and due to conflict of interest, the slaughter plants can't pay an inspector on their own. So in essence, still no horse slaughter though now they can say it's legal. I haven't seen the latest bill, hadn't even heard of it until my farrier mentioned it, so I don't know what it contains. I suspect it still does not contain anything about funding for the inspectors or PETA and the like would have set up a serious howl. So, as politicians tend to do, they're trying to appease one side without making the other one mad. And the horses lose again.
 
#90 ·
@SilverMaple thank you for answering my implied question. I do not know any rodeo stock providers, so was unsure about their fate. I had heard they were mostly well cared for during their careers, but no solid information. It is wonderful to know that at least one breeder takes care of his stock throughout their lifetime. This is what I would like to see happen to other horses.

It can and ethically/morally should be a requirement.

Family pets, horses that are loved, do wind up in the auctions.

We have a very well known kill dealer in the area. He has truckloads of horse coming in 2-3 times a week.

He also has a large barn with a big pen in the middle where his staff try out horses. Anything ride able especially papered stock, is tried out. His barn is divided into three sections, then there are many paddocks in back. In the biggest stalls are the TB's and any other high dollar horses. Have seen horses he is asking 20K for in that section.

Went to try a "kid broke" horse he had out in back in one of the bargain pens years ago. Discovered before I got on that the horse had a bowed tendon. The dealer said he wouldn't sell him to me, as he wasn't sound.

I knew what the fate of that horse would be :icon_frown:

Decided I couldn't ethically support his business by purchasing a horse from him, even though I really wanted to "save" at least one of them.

I had a very hard time even looking at any of the horses, and there were so many there it was heartbreaking. This was before the slaughter of horses ended in this country. I was thrilled when the slaughter stopped. I will never support such an inhumane system.

My grandfather (and my father after him) owned a coal yard. In my grandfather's day, the coal trucks were pulled by horses. My grandfather made sure none of the drivers mistreated those horses. If he caught them not providing feed & water to the horses and not giving them breaks throughout the workday, he would fire them on the spot. Everyone knew if you wanted a job with my family, you better take care of the horses!

He also insisted that the drivers offer the horses a cigarette when they stopped for a smoke. He claimed horses enjoyed cigarettes too(unlit, lol)

When his horses retired, they were moved to a farm he owned in a neighboring state. (we lived in town) He never sold his horses. When my grandfather passed on, my dad inherited the business, and my uncle inherited the horse farm.

My grandfather taught me to take care of all the creatures God entrusted to us. Horses give us so much, and ask so little in return.
 
#97 ·
Yes @Hondo I do agree, need to prepare for unintended consequences.

IMO once slaughter and transport to slaughter was abolished, those with excess horses would most likely just shoot them. If they couldn't make a few bucks off the poor creatures, they wouldn't keep them and might become more responsible breeding.

A bullet to the head is much less trauma to the horse than the slaughterhouse and the ride to the slaughterhouse. Horse auctions may become obsolete; not necessarily a bad thing.

Also agree, the humane society and other associated rescue organizations need to humanely pts those unwanted animals. Have always wondered why rescue organizations always seem to have an abundance of animals with health issues. Their resources would be better spent on pts the crippled and unhealthy to make room for healthy ones.

Our county shelter does have horses that have been seized from time to time, and those animals are adopted out to approved homes. They have a large pasture and a smaller paddock for sick animals or those needing more frequent care.

The other unintentional consequence; less foreign countries obtaining less horsemeat and maybe, just maybe, eating them would end :grin:
 
#101 ·
AnitaAnne, noble as your basic support of the ban of horse slaughter might be, your stance is not in the best interest of the horse, in the long run, not as long as horses are bred beyond demand, with many becoming un wanted
At least in the USA and Canada , there are laws and regulations towards humane slaughter.There are none in Mexico, where many of those surplus horses went, after the slaughter plants in the States were closed to horses.
Watch some videos of horses being stabbed, sometime hung up on hooks, still alive , slaughtered in Mexico. I doubt those poor animals would have thanked those that closed the option to a more humane slaughter in the States!
What about un wanted dogs and cats? Many are put down all the time, being un wanted. Where is the hue and cry there, just because the meat is not eaten in North America ?
You keep talking about how you treat your horses, how your family treats their horses, how other responsible horse owners that also happen to love horses treat them, but tell me, without reporting someone to the SPCA, when conditions get bad enough, so they take action, how are you going to regulate what the many people who happen to own/use horses, seeing them only as an asset or liability, do with them?
It does not matter as to what responsible caring hrose people do with their horses, as there are still many, many, many un wanted horses. Go to any all breed auction mart, and you will see them going through that ring
You have to live with reality, then work on solutions within that reality, and not some utopia that does not exist.
When the slaughter plants were closed, The bottom selling price of those hroses going through those auctions, was less at times then the commission , so that people were abandoning horses in those auction marts after hours
I reported aherd of starving horses one year, tot he sPCA
I happened across them, walking a back pasture and woods, on some property my friend was thinking of buying. It was January, and 30 below C
Mares still had foals on them, and were back in foal, with one mare ready to foal anytime, in those conditions. Two studs were running with those mares.
All had back bones showing, even under winter hair. Where they had pawed for food, was bare frozen dirt. ONly some buried poplar leaves were under the snow, at the base of some trees.
No hay, no water.
The woman who owned the horses, said she bought them to save them from slaughter! Horses were seized,but what really got me, having inside info, as my son's ex was working in Horse Industry, thus knew the sPCA officers, was the fact that this woman had been convicted before, and now had horses again.
She is not alone in this,thus, if you wish to really do some good, get laws changed to that those that have starved animals, never are allowed to own them again.
 
#105 ·
IMO, the AAEP left out an all important word in the following sentence which I have inserted the word.

AAEP: "However, if a horse owner is not able or willing to provide humane care, the AAEP believes that Humane euthanasia at a processing facility is a humane alternative to a life of suffering, inadequate care and possibly abandonment."

And Humane Euthanasia needs to be clearly defined with penalties for not following those definitions. And the humane euthanasia needs to recognize the volatility of the panic stricken horse as compared to other farm animals.

In my previous comments about animals suffering from severly inadequate care, I was focusing mainly on individual horse owners. The AAEP article relates to those situations in a similar way, indicating that making shipping out of state for slaughter would increase the number of suffering horses. But I've done a rethink this morning.

Where does the backup actually come from? Mostly?

I personally know of several area ranches that have one or two new colts each year just to see what turns up. Even though they may only use two or three horses that they ride for twenty or so years. They keep the colts until they are a few years old just to see how they turn out. Most are sold to auction.

The large ranch in Texas that I mentioned a while back breeds around 300 per year, keeping the best for show, some for use on the ranch, with the rest being sold at auction. Some for use but surely some to kill pens.

It's real handy. The cost for breeding a few extra on a large ranch is close to nothing and for certain is covered by the sale. Real handy. Breed a bunch and keep the best. But if they were faced with the possibility of needing to euthanize some of the extra themselves, they just might cut down on the breeding.

And people buying a cheap horse would face the possibility of needing to pay for euthanization if the horse did not work out.

So before I could make a decision of support about making export for slaughter illegal, I'd need some hard evidence on the major source of backup of unwanted horses.

I've only mentioned ranching, but my understanding is that the race industry is a major provider of unwanted horses as well. But more factual evidence is needed.

Some countries and societies eat dogs. I do not criticize them nor oppose them. We're all different. The cow is sacred in India. Most people here eat them.

As far as some believing a horse is livestock, I understand that. But that said, there is a huge difference between farm livestock and a horse in terms of mentality and social construction as it relates to humans. For me, the horse has moved away from livestock and into the realm of the dog. My horse is not a dog, but he is clearly a companion animal for me.

I could not relate to my horse as I do and eat horse meat at the same time. Just as I could not relate to my dog and eat dog meat at the same time. Just as I could not eat humane meat.

We're all different and so are societies. And what is ok in a democratic society is eventually determined by the voice of the public.

And so we all add our voices and hope for our voice to win out. That's the battle in the democratic society and as it should be.

And to reiterate, some study or similar really needs to be done to gather factual information on the source of unwanted horses deemed to a slaughter auction in order to make the best decision for the horse.
 
#106 · (Edited)
@Smilie I do not appreciate how you repeatedly post that I am not facing reality. Can you please stop with the personal attacks? I get that you are on the opposite side of this issue, but that doesn't mean that your stance is the only reality. No one else is making these personal attacks, why are you?

The inhumane slaughter process is exactly why I am against it! Of course there are irresponsible and uncaring people in the world; that is exactly why responsible people need to protect those innocents that need it.

I took in therapeutic foster children for years; you would not believe the horrors these poor kids suffered often from their own parents. I understand the reality of cruel, sadistic people. I do not live in some sort of utopia nor to I believe we will ever reach it. But I was brought up to understand that it was my responsibility, and the responsibility of every person, to help the weaker among us, and that includes all Gods creatures.

Put a bullet to those horses heads or euthanize; much more humane IMO than any slaughterhouse. The racing industry, for example, would have no difficulty funding a crematory for their unwanted horses.

Folks will stop breeding those excess horses or will put them down, or abandon them. There will be no financial gain to someone to buy or breed excess horses. If they are abandoned or abused or neglected then the Humane societies need to step in and euthanize the surplus. Eventually, the supply and demand would equalize and there would be much less excess horses.

Why would many of you be opposed to just euthanizing these horses? Why so adamant that the only option is more slaughterhouses and more slaughter?

Here's a little reality, do you want that slaughterhouse located next to you? Do you want to see those thousands of horses daily, hear their screams? Smell the odor of constant death? Have those trucks constantly passing your home?

I think that those that so adamantly want these slaughterhouses need to offer to have them on their land, with no personal financial gain, IF they start back slaughter which I pray to God doesn't ever happen.
 
#115 ·
When I was in 4-H, they offered an equine vet science project for the senior level horse program kids. One of the things we did was visit a slaughterhouse. We went because it was a place where you can see glaringly obvious unsoundnesses in quantity. Spavins and windbroken horses and navicular horses and just everything. Plenty of old skinny horses too -- this was before the advances which now can keep horses happy into their thirties; in those days twenty years was approaching the limit. At a certain point, you just couldn't keep weight on them. So off they would go.

We didn't go inside, because that wasn't why we were there, but there no screams. No smell of constant death. No trucks even, that I remember. Nor were there thousands of horses. It was a local place. It used to be that there were such businesses were in every rural county. It was quiet. Just a couple hundred or so sad-looking horses standing patiently in paddocks. On the other side of the factory they had facilities for cattle.

There is such a thing as humane slaughter. Read Temple Grandin on the subject. She has done a great deal to reform slaughter facilities for cattle in the US. In my opinion, what this country needs is many more humane slaughterhouses and mobile abatoirs. Smaller scale, local, inspected, regulated.

A reason to move away from euthanizing is that it injects toxic chemicals into the animal which render it unfit for consumption -- by humans, dogs, cats, anything. There's a lot of protein going to waste, and a huge body that has to be disposed of. Doesn't make sense to me at all.

I love my horses but I am not going to turn my face away from death and all its ramifications. Death is part of the cycle of life; it is not intrinsically a horror nightmare of cruelty.

Anyone who has lived and worked on a farm knows this. Animals are born, and they die. We eat some of them, because we're omnivores, that is in our design. You can rail against these facts but that won't change them.
 
#107 ·
Smilie's just got an an abrasive way of saying things sometimes. Ya just gotta learn to shrug it off. I don't agree with everything she says, but she really does know a lot and has a bunch of experience. And really does care about horses, IMO.

She just sometimes seems to take offense at anything she doesn't agree with as a personal attack on her which cause her to perhaps sometimes be a little too aggressive in some of her statements.
 
#109 ·
Until there is an outlet for the horses nobody wants, slaughter needs to be an option. I don't see many of the people saying 'no slaughter' stepping up and filling their properties with unbroke, lame, skinny, or unwanted horses. Many that do keep them in worse conditions than the kill pens and slaughter houses under the guise of 'rescues' begging endlessly for funds while horses stand around in dirty, trashy pens with untrimmed hooves, no vet care, and open sores. Those doing the most good are, ironically, the ones that pull the worst of the worst, take them home, and shoot them to ensure a quick death.

There's no financial gain to breeding excess horses in most cases. You still have to feed and care for those horses, and that adds up to well over the few hundred dollars one might get at auction very quickly. Removing the option of slaughter will not stop people breeding more horses than they need, or needing to dispose of horses they already have. Things happen. Families that thought their horse would have a home for life have a health emergency and suddenly everything is sold because they're facing bankruptcy for medical bills, or horse care simply is too much. Kids grow up and the kids' horse has navicular and now nobody wants him and your other option is keeping him for 15 more years until he dies. Rural properties are swallowed up by development and homeowners are forced to sell horses. A horse thought to be broke and usable develops a dangerous habit or bows a tendon and the family doesn't want a horse they can't ride for 20 more years. Someone buys a mare and finds out after purchase that mare is due to foal in a few months-- should they be forced to keep that foal they never wanted and don't have the facilities or knowledge to train? Remember that foal has no papers and may have some conformational issues affecting his saleability. Ideally, these folks would euth the unwanted horses rather than taking them to auction, but that's also expensive, and you'd still have public outcry that 'at least at auction the horse has a chance.' You should see the kerfluffle when someone shoots a horse because he has a health issue or a dangerous habit and they don't want him to end up in Mexico or hurt someone. Or God forbid a person dies and her wishes include that her 15 y.o. diabetic cat be euthed so she knows he won't suffer....

Americans have a problem with death that many other cultures do not. There are worse fates than death. There are simply too many horses NOBODY wants to take the option off the table. Do I like the idea of horses going to slaughter? Heck no. Nobody does. But a death with regulations is far better than one without.
 
#110 ·
Americans have a problem with death that many other cultures do not.
This is one reason I'm glad I live in this country.

Why slaughter rather than humane euthanasia?

Large ranches can and do overbreed horses with very little if any cost which is more than recovered by a kill pen sale.

It's the sources of unwanted horses that needs to be determined, scrutinized, and reduced.

There are certainly horses that become unwanted due to the the situations you mention, but at what % of the total is a complete unknown at this time I'm thinking.

The thing is, if the kill pen were taken off the table, it just might become a known that if you buy a horse and decide you don't want it, you just may have to euthanize it yourself if it was not a saleable horse. When that concept got around it might make people think a bit more before getting a horse and further reduce the outlet for the over breeders.

I'm just thinking out loud. My mind is fluid at this point.
 
#111 ·
I'd just like to add a note of my own. Before craigslist, there were 2 local auctions. They did a lot of business. Now, one is gone, and the other only has about 30 head running through once a month. There is another monthly auction up in the high desert that is still going. Here in So Cal, I do not see a glut of horses. The ones going through the auction are mostly horses that did not sell on CL along with a few that just slip through the cracks. A broke horse that seems sound finds a home. I don't know if they stay there, sometimes I see the horse back at the auction next month. But if the horse seems in good shape, there are plenty of bidders.

I believe that when the housing market crashed here it weeded things out a bit. There are plenty of people in search of a bombproof horse. If the horse is well broke, there is a home.
 
#112 · (Edited)
Lots of points made. Won't go into all of them. But I have seen racing and the industry mentioned. Even that an endless number of horse from racing are sent to slaughter. Wanted to look at that.

In 2016 20,850 foals were born eligible for racing and that been about the number for a few years now. I have seen numbers of anywhere from 120,00 -170,000 horses are sent to slaughter each year from the United States. So will go with the aforementioned 150, 000. Some rough quick math tells us that even if every single one of race horses born were sent, it would make up only 15 percent of the total. We all know that does not happen. Half would be around 7 percent. That's not true either. The fact of the matter is racing does not keep the slaughter houses doors open. Numbers wise, racing doesn't make a dent one way or the other to their business.

That's not to say I am ok with any race horse being sent to slaughter. Racing is doing a better job,but much more needs to be done. Tracks can ban the kill trucks. But the truth is those looking to do that will find a way. But that is no different than any other horse segment. But I am not ok with racing always being seen as a pipeline to the slaughter house.
 
#113 ·
Lots of points made. Won't go into all of them. But I have seen racing and the industry mentioned. Even that an endless number of horse from racing are sent to slaughter. Wanted to look at that.
This is what I'm looking for. And more of it. Your post sent me searching. I landed on a PETA article. Not a member or a supporter but here's their statistics which are in line with what you posted.

Quote: "A staggering 130,000 American horses were slaughtered in Mexico and Canada in 2015, yet the rodeo, racing, and show industries—along with other irresponsible breeders—continue to churn out hundreds of thousands of horses annually.

Two-thirds of horses sent to slaughter are quarter horses, and many are castoffs from the rodeo or racing industries. The Thoroughbred-racing industry sends an estimated 10,000 horses to slaughter annually, meaning that half of the 20,000 new foals born each year will eventually be killed for their flesh."

https://www.peta.org/issues/animals...-industry-cruelty/overbreeding-and-slaughter/

Interesting that they found 66% slaughtered to be quarter horses.

I just came in from stretching some woven wire where I was thinking about this thread and this question popped into my head.

I wonder how many people that describe themselves as being in the "horses are livestock" group would support the ranching of horses for just meat production as cattle are. Some I suppose, but my (unsubstantiated) opinion is that not many would.
 
#114 ·
You can't take anything peta says at face value or even assume factual. Also no numbers but just thinking that if TB racing sent half of each years crop, that there's a lot of females in that grouping. At some point you would dwindle down to nothing. For an animal that doesn't have liters every few months, but 1 offspring a year with a 50-50 chance of being female, that's not sustainable.
 
#116 ·
I do understand what you're saying aubie. In fact, it's hard to take anything from a passionate source as being purely accurate.

In part of the quote I pasted PETA talks about, "along with other irresponsible breeders—continue to churn out hundreds of thousands of horses annually." when at the same time they talk about 130,000 slaughtered annually.

So yeah, I get that.

But the numbers on Thoroughbreds seem to be (sort of) accurate based on what you posted, so I'm thinking the 2/3 quarter horse number may be accurate also.

I've spent some time searching for the sources of slaughtered horses and have came up empty except for PETA. Who else would take the time and trouble to even try to monitor how many of which breed were slaughtered.

It does seem like if records are available for the number exported each year for slaughter, there would be a line that showed the breed of each. But maybe not. Be interesting to know the age also.
 
#118 ·
PETA is a political body with a ferocious, irrational, and bizarre agenda. No one, ever, anywhere, should take anything they say as anything but a lie. This has been documented over and over and over. They lie about their own activities, they lie about the realities of anything and anyone they have decided is their cause of the day. They are disgusting. I would never in a million years use their "data" for anything.

I found a sane discussion about horse slaughter numbers on the AVMA website on the first page of a simple google search. It took less than half a minute to find it. There is a good analysis of the issues, and why hard figures can be hard to come by. It discusses how much fluctuation there is in that population, essentially linked to the greater economy.

The number of unwanted horses of different breeds is a basic reflection of how common those breeds are. Nothing mysterious about it whatsoever. I bet the number of Akhal Tekes sent to slaughter in this country is tiny in comparison with the number of TBs and Quarter Horses. Don't need rocket science to figure out why.

The very same people who made sure we can't kill unwanted horses are now shocked and grief-stricken that now there are endless numbers of unwanted horses that have no possible good fate. Surprise!

There are many different, long range, ways to approach the problem, and my sanest guess is that, like most complicated issues, applying as many of solutions as possible as widely as possible and then studying to find which of them make the biggest differences, will be the only approach that will work. Some of the solutions will be very unpalatable to the sentimental and short-sighted. But virtually certainly, those solutions will also have to be part of mix.

Animal Rightists have done me and and many friends quite a bit of harm, and would do more if allowed. I have no sympathy.
 
#120 ·
@Avna so you visited a slaughterhouse but did not go inside. Was this a planned visit? Were they even slaughtering at that time? did they have the outside cleaned up for your visit?

When I was in college (many, many moons ago) I drove almost daily past a slaughterhouse a few towns up on my way to school. I frequently had trucks loaded with animals passing me, yes, the trucks were speeding by me in my little car with no care as to the load they carried.

The slaughterhouse was on the main road, and I had to drive 30 minutes out of my way to avoid it. The smell was horrendous when they were "processing". I could hear the screams of pain from the road driving by with my windows shut. The animals were often brought in later in the afternoon or early morning.

It got to where I couldn't stand to drive by when they were processing, so I left for school really early so would be driving past it before it opened for business. I could see the animals in the holding pens, just standing around :frown_color:

In the afternoon the smell was so bad, I sometimes stayed late in the evening or went out with friends just to avoid passing that processing plant. Sometimes drove the 30 minutes around the other way so I didn't have to see the place.

I'm not sure exactly when it closed, but I was sure glad it did. When I drive past the spot it was, I still instinctively turn my head to see what is in the holding pens. I used to pray for a quick end for those poor creatures.

A shot to the head in a pasture would be a blessing compared to going through a slaughterhouse.
 
#122 ·
@Avna so you visited a slaughterhouse but did not go inside. Was this a planned visit? Were they even slaughtering at that time? did they have the outside cleaned up for your visit?<snip>

A shot to the head in a pasture would be a blessing compared to going through a slaughterhouse.
Well, I certainly agree with your last sentence. That's how the majority of horses used to end their days who didn't die of natural causes. Just like other livestock and dogs and cats were dispatched on the farm premises by the farmer.

As far as the field trip goes, I was 15 at the time. I'm 60 now. There's a lot I don't remember or never knew about the logistics. I don't know if they were slaughtering at the time. I am moderately sure we just drove up and got out and wandered around. Doubt that anybody was alerted. There were only about six kids and one adult (we were a small but energetic club).

As I've said twice now, there is such a thing as humane slaughter. We lack the political will to implement it, as it would entail both the Animal Rightists giving up their fixed position that any slaughter is anathema to them, and meat processors giving up their fixed position that the only thing that matters is cutting costs.

Since my basic pessimism and misanthropy has only worsened over my lifetime, I'm not holding my breath over this.
 
#124 ·
The Humane Society of the United States is not a humane society. It is a fundraising, proselytizing arm of PETA (or perhaps PETA is the radical terrorist arm of HSUS). It is not an umbrella organization for local humane societies. It does not provide any humane services. Its real ethos would make all your hair stand on end. Stay far away from them.

There is such a thing as humane slaughter of horses. Just because it may not exist in this country in any real way does not make my statement untrue. Methods that work for cattle may not work for horses but that doesn't mean such methods don't exist or can't be developed. Humane slaughter means changing the way horses were slaughtered in the past. To me, that is a big part of the solution.

Why is euthanasia not as good a solution? Because the vast majority of unwanted horses are UNWANTED. No one wants to pay for euthanizing them. Where would you bury fifty thousand horses, may I ask? And then what about the next year, the next fifty thousand?

Horsemeat could be made fit for human (or pet) consumption. Most of the drugs administered to them have withdrawal times, just as other livestock drugs do. It is not a true obstacle.
 
#132 ·
Humane slaughtering for horses "COULD" be developed? Who knows this? Where would one bury 150,000 horses?

Get this: On 64,000 farms in Texas producing at least $1,000 per year in 2012 there were 395,000 horses.

Nation wide on 504,795 farms there were 3,621,348 horses.

Not included are race, backyard, and other sources of horse population.

The study rated as most accurate puts the US total in 2009 at 9,222,847.

Now how many horses do you suppose die each year out of 9 million? I'd say the number would be several times the 150,000 exported for slaughter. So what do they do with the corpse? Same as could be done for the 150,000 exported.

The notion that slaughter is necessary because there is no other way to dispose of the corpse is unrealistic.

Profit from slaughter is a motor for driving the over breeding of horses. That's a fact. Argue about it but it's still a fact.
 
#133 ·
Profit from slaughter is a motor for driving the over breeding of horses. That's a fact. Argue about it but it's still a fact.
I don't believe this "fact", and won't until I see some hard data on how much breeders base their budgets on how much they'll get from kill buyers for the excess horses they produce. Let's see that.

Let's see the stats on how, now that there is no horse slaughter in the US, hence no significant profit to be made except from re-selling worthless horses to do-gooders, over-breeding has plummeted.

No.

Overbreeding is a byproduct of a variety of management practices of breeders with widely differing goals. Some of this is simply a fact of nature -- to get really good horses you also need to produce a lot of 'extra' horses, because that's how livestock breeding is. In livestock, your culls go to market, your picks become your continually-upgraded breeding herd. That's how it has been since time immemorial.

There are also thousands of horses produced with little forethought by a breeder, or with no input from humans whatsoever -- feral horses, backyard horses. Who told them how much profit there was in slaughter?

In a rational world, a world in which the goal is to create sustainable systems which support the ecology of the planet, the well-being of humans, and the humane care of domestic animals, we could have discussions about the best ways to go about achieving this. This is not that world. Instead we get irrational unworkable emotion-driven crackpot schemes on the one hand, and brutal profit-driven destruction on the other, and nothing in between.

I'm bowing out here.
 
#134 ·
no, profit from slaughter is not the motor that drives over breeding of horses' What drives it, is breeding horses beyond supply and demand , often based on other goals, such as race wins, urine quotas and just the plain fact it is very easy to breed a mare,with many that do so, having no idea as to what to do with that resulting foal
Slaughter is the result of irresponsible breeding, breeding with no relationship between supply and demand, for the very reason that most horse breeding is not run as a business, that pays for itself
No one raising cattle, continues to breed them at a loss, as their income comes from those cattle, and not from extraneous sources
Cattle are not bred to win purses, no one says, 'well, if we can't ride that cow, because it is crippled,or we lack the skill to train it, we can breed her, and get a cute calf.
Put up million dollar races for cows,and see how many extra cows are bred, to try and get that champion calf
It is the very fact that many horse breeding is not run like a livestock operation, but often based on nothing more then irresponsible wims,or often fueled by funds having nothing to do with the breeding of those hroses, and when those external funds dry up, the horses have to be liquidated
 
#136 ·
Perhaps this article can clarify why banning Horse slaughter, is not in the best interest of those un wanted horses.

Here is one paragraph:

Anti-Horse Slaughter Legislation:
Bad for Horses, Bad for Society
LAURA JANE DURFEE*
INTRODUCTION
The United States horse slaughter industry is on its deathbed. The demise of the
industry follows various animal welfare groups' increased activism in recent years to
eliminate domestic equine slaughter.' These proponents' arguments are emotionally
charged, at the cost of foresight. For example, they claim that horses are "a rich part of
American culture," 2 but they fail to address what will really happen to "rescued" horses
that would otherwise be destined for slaughter. While horses have played an important
role in this nation's history, romanticizing the horse's place in our society while
ignoring the consequences that are likely to follow a slaughter ban3 does little, if
anything, for equine welfare. The past president of the American Veterinary Medicine
Association, Dr. Bonnie Beaver, summed this up when she said,
We must think of the consequences of the proposed ban in concert with the
welfare of a large number of horses that could be affected. I urge [members of
Congress] to... base their opinions on facts and science, not on emotions. [The
proposed horse slaughter ban] ... has significant negative consequences for many
horses.4
The elimination of domestic equine slaughter does not benefit equine welfare and has
negative economic effects on the horse industry. Equine adoption agencies can neither
absorb nor fund care for the 65,000 to 90,000 unwanted horses a year t



http://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1090&context=ilj
 
#137 ·
Domestic horse slaughter is a necessary part of the billion-dollar horse industry. The
slaughter industry not only provides revenue, jobs, and taxes, but it also provides a
humane, economically viable disposal option for unwanted or dangerous horses under
careful federal regulation. While the horse slaughter industry does not differ from other
domestic animal slaughter industries, the emotions that surround the slaughter of horses
have created a vocal public outcry.47 Many citizens, most of whom are not associated
with the horse industry, perceive the horse as something of a mystical icon embodying
a special place in American history. a8 Congress and state legislatures have responded
with significant regulations; the carefully regulated, much-needed domestic equine
slaughter industry is now effectively extinct.


Without a domestic equine slaughter market, and with other options unavailable or
cost-prohibitive, many horse owners will deal with unwanted horses in other, more
undesirable, ways. Some estimates put the number of abandoned horses-so far-at
over 120,000.88 A sale barn owner in Utah reported that one horse owner abandoned
his horses at a sale barn because the owner could not afford to pay the consignment fee
to sell his horses.89 Another owner locked twenty-three horses in a barn because he
could no longer afford to care for them because of the rising costs of feed 9° and the
horses' plummeting value. 9
' One rancher in Oregon reported that, during an eighteen to
twenty-four month period, at least nine horses were turned loose on his ranch. 92 In
Pennsylvania, two horses were found dead along with seven others suffering from
malnourishment.93 Those who abandon horses can be charged with animal
abandonment or animal abuse, but it can be difficult to identify the owners of
abandoned horses, since many horses have no identifying marks tying them to their
owners.94 Unwanted horses who are not neglected, starved, or abandoned may still find
their way to slaughterhouses, but they will travel farther distances-across national

boarders-a journey that can be stressful on old or weak horses 95
-and may end up at
facilities that use slaughter techniques that would be far from acceptable at a federally
regulated U.S. slaughterhouse.
One slaughterhouse buyer reported on the increased distance traveled by the horses
he purchases.96 This buyer now ships the horses he purchases at auction to El Paso,
Texas, where they are transferred to another truck, and hauled across the border and
out of USDA oversight.97 From there, the horses might stay in Juarez, Mexico, for
slaughter or they might be shipped 700 miles south to one of two large plants in the
city of Zacatecas.98 The Juarez plant uses captive bolt guns, a humane equine slaughter
method according to the American Veterinary Medical Association,99 but the bolt guns
rarely operate correctly.100 Often, workers must incapacitate a horse by severing its
spinal cord with a knife, a process known as the "puntilla" technique. 101 A horse might
endure as many as thirteen jabs to the back before it collapses. 0 2 After the horse
collapses, it is left on the ground for two minutes before it is attached to a chain, lifted
up, and has its throat slit. 0 3 However, the horse smells, hears, and sees his throat being
slit because the jabs to the spinal cord leave the horse quadriplegic, but conscious. 104
Therefore, the horse experiences being hoisted and bleeding to death. 10 5 The plant
owner in Juarez compares this method of slaughter to "watching someone with an ice
pick."'1 6 As of September 2007, 30,000 American horses had been shipped to Mexico,
a 370% increase from the number recorded in September 2006.107
Slaughterhouses in Canada do not incapacitate horses with knifejabs to the back.10 8
Instead, most slaughterhouses shoot them with a .22 caliber rifle.l19 As with horses
shipped to Mexico, horses sent to Canada for slaughter travel farther than they did
when slaughterhouses operated in the United States, 1 0 causing an increased risk of
 
#138 ·
From an artilce feed back, by the equine author, Jane Smiley

'I was a proponent of the anti-horse-slaughter legislation until I learned what a monster we created with it. As wonderful as it would be to take every unwanted horse in this country and place it in a sanctuary such as one Ms. Pickens proposes, the reality is that horses are simply too large, live too long, and are too expensive to maintain for any entity to do this. Perhaps in the future, the number of horses bred in this country can be reduced and the number of unwanted horses would therefore decline, but until then, we can’t just ignore the surplus of the present. While chemical euthanasia is the most humane alternative to slaughter, giving such a large dose of toxins to a large animal creates a huge environmental problem- when the body is buried, the euthanasia solution can easily wind up in groundwater and wildlife. For one backyard horse this may not be a problem, but on a large scale this can become a HUGE issue. I don’t think any of us want to be drinking pentobarbital out of the tap, no matter how much we love our departed equines
https://therail.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/01/why-horse-slaughter-is-necessary/
 
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