Thoughts on having heavy riders dismount? - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
 76Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 53 Old 08-08-2016, 01:25 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,228
• Horses: 1
@bsms -- I don't think anyone here is claiming that the 20% 'rule' is wisdom or a steadfast rule.
I think the discussion here has more to do with what's appropriate for a show holder, director, or instructor/owner of a program to ask; what sort of response they'll receive; and how they can go about doing so without having someone cry discrimination (as would inevitably happen here in the states).

Because you have expressed so often that you abhor this rule of thumb, can I ask if you'd be happier with a number limit? Or do you have some other proposition as to how people should go about things?

When I rode for IHSA several years back, they had 'height/weight requirement horses' which were often ponies or light boned horses.
The requirements were that no one over 5'6" or over 130 could ride. [I don't recall if there was a weight limit for regular mounts] I can't imagine the outcry that rule would receive on this forum xD (or is it better because it's a 'hard' number? I'm not sure what the argument is here)
For what it's worth, they may have done away with this rule as I couldn't find anything about it in the 16/17 rulebook.

@Dreamcatcher Arabians -- I totally agree with you.
I'm an advocate of 'live and let live.' What people do with their own horses in their own time shouldn't be anyone's business unless it's outright abuse.
Unfortunately, this conversation calls other people's discretion and reputation into play. At a show you are already paying for a judge's opinion; someone can be asked to dismount for abusive behavior or inappropriate tack--I don't see whys judge wouldn't have discretion over this, too.
The flip side (which, I also totally agree with you) is that, as an exhibitor, you always have the right to pack up your things and go, and choose not to associate yourself with or deal with that judge again.

The sensitivity of the internet baffles me.
Zexious is offline  
post #22 of 53 Old 08-08-2016, 01:34 PM
Started
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northern Nevada
Posts: 1,725
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians View Post
My point is, it's MY horse, my property, just like my wagon or my barn or my car.
But the place where the show is being held is not your property. Just as with any other sport, the people organizing the event make the rules. If you don't like them, you're perfectly free to go home and ride your horse around your own property, or even organize your own event with different rules.
updownrider, avjudge and jaydee like this.
jamesqf is offline  
post #23 of 53 Old 08-08-2016, 02:32 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: southern Arizona
Posts: 11,856
• Horses: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zexious View Post
...Because you have expressed so often that you abhor this rule of thumb, can I ask if you'd be happier with a number limit? Or do you have some other proposition as to how people should go about things?...
Some rules:

Either horse or rider can be disqualified at the discretion of "X".

No one may ride a pony on show grounds unless they are the pony's next scheduled rider.

I'll add this: Ask me to carry an 80 lb sack of hay pellets on my shoulder from truck to shed, and it isn't a problem. Ask me to hike for 2 hours with one on my shoulder, and it isn't physically possible. 5 minutes on a horse is different that an hour on one.
jamesqf and anndankev like this.

Riders ask "How?" Horsemen ask "Why?"
bsms is offline  
post #24 of 53 Old 08-08-2016, 02:33 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 15,433
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyBoysGrace View Post
You're wrong about the English horse world, very wrong. Just like everywhere else, we have riders of all fitness levels and just like everywhere else, we have the snobs. When people think of English riding, they picture the snobs, not the average rider. We have our good strong cobs, we have natives, we have our flimsy ponies and we have our accident prone TBs.
I'm English, living in Ireland and riding English. You shouldn't say things based on stereotypes, it's just not right to do that.
And you should not make such assumptions, what stereotypes are you basing your answer on?

For your information I am as English as they come, I lived there for nearly 50 years, so I DO know something about riding in the UK, and quite a lot of stables have a 12st weight limit, 168 pounds, a lot more top out at 14 stone 196 pounds, and you will find a few that have a heavy weight carrier for up to 250, for a slow trek.

Yes we have good stocky Highlanders and Dales and fells, good strong cobs, but still there IS a weight bias. Look at English horse clothing, with the distinct exception of Fuller Fillies, big people are SOL when shopping, When you see XL, and find out it is size 14 - 16 tells you a lot.

I'm sorry, my real life experience, and also reading reactions on this board and those in England, I know that I would be largely unacceptable on the English show circuit, where here it is not an issue.
Wallaby, anndankev, SEAmom and 4 others like this.

“Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity”
Golden Horse is offline  
post #25 of 53 Old 08-08-2016, 03:10 PM
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: CT USA an English transplant
Posts: 32,845
• Horses: 3
The show in question was not a small little local affair to UK standards the Greater Yorkshire Show is a County Show and attracts a lot of competitors, it won't suffer at all - I think only 8 adults were asked to dismount children's ponies that they were riding in the warm up ring so that's a very small number compared to the size of the classes at a show like that. I think they would likely be better to put a complete ban on adults riding ponies that are entered in children's classes at all BSPS shows and it might weed out the ponies that are totally unsuitable for a child to ride but get placed because they've been ridden into the ground before they go in the ring.
I can maybe see why some US people don't understand it but when some people take a lot of care to breed and train suitable correct ponies that are child safe straightforward in the ring its very frustrating to be beaten by a pony that you've watched leaping and bucking around under some adult until its too exhausted to do it any more then gets washed off, polished up and has a child perched on it just for the class. It's called cheating but as the judges can only base their opinions on what happens in the ring they'll keep getting away with it.
Far from a decision like this turning people away its more likely to encourage people that are sick of seeing 'bad' ponies getting placed entering classes again and if all of the shows do it these competitors will have no choice but to obey the rules - they only keep these ponies to show, they aren't your average trail riding animal
Forget your mustangs, quarter horses and even Arabians - A typical UK 12.2 show pony weighs around 450 to 500lb and a 13.2 show pony around 500 to 550lb and they've got legs like matchsticks and usually overweight and unfit - they simply aren't suitable for an adult man weighing average of 160lb+ to be riding around with the intent of wearing them out to make them quiet enough for a kid to get on.
This picture is only an example of what a UK show pony looks like - not posted for critique or to accuse the owner of doing anything wrong
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Captureshow.JPG (19.4 KB, 63 views)

Just winging it is not a plan
jaydee is online now  
post #26 of 53 Old 08-08-2016, 03:23 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,669
• Horses: 0
Ive never had my vet, chiropractor, or farrier EVER say anything about any ill effects my weight has had on my horse. In fact, last visit the chiropractor said she was remarkably flexable for her age! I check my horses back frequently for soreness, plus she is pretty good at letting me know something wrong/hurts (not very stoic at all!). We are also in the running to be grand champion in our local WP show series. She also keeps up with all the other horses on trail who are almost half her age! I really don't think she has a problem carrying me.

Although I understand this artical is talking about adults on ponies I fear it could be a flood gate to something bigger.
SEAmom likes this.
SlideStop is offline  
post #27 of 53 Old 08-08-2016, 04:29 PM
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: CT USA an English transplant
Posts: 32,845
• Horses: 3
This is one incident that happened at a County Show in the UK aimed at trying to deter adults from riding children's show ponies before they go in the ring - why would you think that its going to have any sort of impact on the AQHA rules in this country?
As Golden Horse already pointed out - larger sized riders on ponies, small horses or lightweight horses in the UK is the exception there rather than the 'norm' so a rule like this one is going to have very little impact on the showing community as a whole.
Golden Horse likes this.

Just winging it is not a plan
jaydee is online now  
post #28 of 53 Old 08-08-2016, 04:31 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ashland, OR
Posts: 8,466
• Horses: 1
While yes the show can set rules and competitors choose to attend, and I agree they have that right, but if the issue is that the ponies are being schooled by adults - Then IMO they need to shove off.

Unless this is a 4H show where the horse is declared to the rider, anyone and their brother should be allowed to ride if the horses owner says so. Unless there is a legitimate welfare concern to the animal, it's not your business - And I'm talking visible strain, not "Oh, miss fluffy is being ridden by a grown man, that poor baby!"

Horsemen and women should be able to tell the difference.

I warm up horses for my lesson kids. I have friends warm up my secondary horse at races sometimes. I have trainers get on my horses to school. If someone gets thrown off a horse, I almost immediately volunteer to get back on the horse for them. There's a bunch of different reasons for it and none of them are any of the show grounds business to judge.
AnitaAnne likes this.

Pssh.I didn't pick up the wrong lead
It's called a counter canter...
...A very advanced maneuver.
SorrelHorse is offline  
post #29 of 53 Old 08-08-2016, 04:52 PM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,467
• Horses: 0
Why are people who are never going to compete getting upset and arguing?

Showing is a privilege, not a right.

I'm thin enough to ride some small ponies and still be under the 20% rule, but I feel too tall to jump one safely. My upper body is longer than their necks, and that is unsuitable. If I had a bad distance to the jump, that could be dangerous.

Quantity does not mean quality.
updownrider is offline  
post #30 of 53 Old 08-08-2016, 05:01 PM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Clare, Ireland
Posts: 515
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Horse View Post
And you should not make such assumptions, what stereotypes are you basing your answer on?

For your information I am as English as they come, I lived there for nearly 50 years, so I DO know something about riding in the UK, and quite a lot of stables have a 12st weight limit, 168 pounds, a lot more top out at 14 stone 196 pounds, and you will find a few that have a heavy weight carrier for up to 250, for a slow trek.

Yes we have good stocky Highlanders and Dales and fells, good strong cobs, but still there IS a weight bias. Look at English horse clothing, with the distinct exception of Fuller Fillies, big people are SOL when shopping, When you see XL, and find out it is size 14 - 16 tells you a lot.

I'm sorry, my real life experience, and also reading reactions on this board and those in England, I know that I would be largely unacceptable on the English show circuit, where here it is not an issue.
What assumption did I make? These are stereotypes that I hear people saying from all over the world. It's not just riding clothes that run small in the UK but all clothes. Obviously that's wrong but it also happens in reverse. My sister really struggles to get riding clothes and normal clothes because she is so thin. There are many issues for riders of all shapes and sizes, and yes it is wrong BUT I do believe that issues would mainly be in certain cliques.
I can't really compete on a pony that fits me in Ireland, I wouldn't get funny looks for it at small local shows.

I mentioned the horses because it was said that English horses just aren't as strong.

Winter is coming
DannyBoysGrace is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blind riders, thoughts? StarGazing Horse Riding & Horse Activity 3 01-03-2014 04:15 PM
How would I dismount? cowgirllinda1952 Horse Riding & Horse Activity 11 05-08-2013 07:44 PM
How do YOU dismount? ClaireDee English Riding 83 04-18-2012 02:00 PM
Treeless saddles vs heavy riders dee Horse Tack and Equipment 13 04-24-2011 11:15 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome