What will happen to Santa Anita? - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 38 Old 09-30-2019, 11:51 AM
Green Broke
 
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The AR people think reining, cutting, roping, and barrel racing are just as bad as racing. If racing is gone, that will be next, and once again, the industry is not doing much to help itself. Reining, in particular, is under the gun, and could go a long way toward heading off future battles by getting rid of the competitions for 2 and 3 y.o.s but they won't. The big name trainers will continue to go through young horses like water, while the rest of the industry looks the other way. Get rid of those competitions for babies, or at least take out the hard stops, spins, and roll backs until the horse is older, and the industry will be on a much better path.

Much of the rest of the horse industry thinks reining is cruel because big men ride small horses and use big curb bits and spurs. I have friends who ride English, and their view of reining and the western disciplines is largely that it's barbaric and cruel, and the western industry isn't doing much to change that through education, either.
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post #22 of 38 Old 09-30-2019, 12:05 PM
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I was watching on Saturday when that horse went down. I immediately yelled and cussed at the TV...I think I even shocked my husband. I wanted to cry! The horses don't deserve this. Yes, there are apparently deaths and devastating injuries at other tracks, but not to this degree. Not like what has happened at Santa Anita. So I'm wanting someone to admit to why it's happening more at one track than any others...but that question won't be answered...ever. Are they too lax with their pre-race exams? Is there a problem with the track itself that no one is willing to pay to fix? Or all of the above? Too many unanswered questions.

I have been a racing fan for many years and although I don't keep up with it well enough to be able to tell you the stats on any particular horse, I do enjoy it. However, as I get older and can see and understand more of what is actually going on, I'm getting more mad at the racing industry as a whole. What is it we tell other horse enthusiasts when they ask about certain products? You can't fix a training problem with gadgets. Then why do so many trainers in such an expensive and expansive industry like racing do just that? I hate seeing all the horses with their tongues tied down. And I really hate seeing race horses (all horses actually) with a figure 8 nose band strapped on too tight. I believe I've read articles showing the difference in horses used for racing many years ago versus now. They used to be more muscled, with thicker legs and more substantial bone. I have a friend that works at a track in the barn and checks tattoos and papers of horses before the races to make sure the correct horse is racing. He has told me about some of them that appear to have almost no training at all. They aren't all worked on a regular basis. They're pulled out on race day, exercised a few times, and then put on the track. As two and three year olds. That's too young.

Let's face it, there are issues in every horse related industry. The more money and prestige are associated with the sport, the more people will be greedy and try to win at all costs. Whether that's the owners, trainers, promoters, athletes, etc...it happens in all disciplines. And it shouldn't. It's the horse that suffers! And it's going too far now. If the money continues as it always has in racing, sadly so will the corruption, looking the other way, and cutting corners. Santa Anita should be closed down. No, it won't stop what's been happening, but maybe it'll stop whatever the issue is at that track, and open a few eyes to what can happen at other tracks if regulations aren't tightened or at least followed.



To me a good race horse (or any discipline) is not one that runs fast as a youngster with tons of equipment and drugs. It's a horse that still runs fast at a later age with no drugs of any kind. I'd love to see a track where you are not allowed any drugs of any kind, plain bridle with a snaffle bit, and no horse under the age of 8 running. Those horses would impress me!
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post #23 of 38 Old 09-30-2019, 01:16 PM
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I would be perfectly fine if they banned the sport. I watched the race live on television and i really wish i had not seen it. What a horrible start to the breeders cup races. Looks like all their reforms aren't working.
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post #24 of 38 Old 09-30-2019, 01:21 PM
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It's happening here. I keep seeing racing is dying and on the decline. It's stated like its a fact. I stopped posting articles because there didn't seem to be any interest. Every meet for the last two or three years handles set records. Same at the sales. Colonial Downs had been closed but came back and had a nice meet and plans for the future. Kentucky Downs has been been on

the rise big time the last few years. It's always been a boutique meet as its a little different/turf course only. But they have been offering better purses because handle is up. Better purses bring better horse which brings more people. Churchill Downs wants to build another track . A little more to it with them but that's another topic.

NBC has expanded their coverage each of the last three years. They also include Royal Ascot now. Fox expanded big time this year in only their second year of a deal with NYRA, They now show every race. They did it to of course compete with another network. But also because more people are watching, so they can sell more commercials. All good that's their job.

In no way shape form or fashion in racing comparable with big lick. This is big lick

You simply can not get the big lick/win without soring. Stacks only get you so far. You can not get a horse to walk behind putting more pressure on the back feet to relive the front without it. The chain or "action devise" does nothing if a horse hasn't been snored. It sole purpose is to rub and irritate. Without soring they pay no more attention to it than a hoof protector or front wrap.

I do need to say I'm not lumping all TWH people in the same pot. There are natural classes and some try to complete in big lick with more humane practices.

I may post more thought in a bit.
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post #25 of 38 Old 09-30-2019, 01:55 PM
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Some I found with one click

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...-crown-belmont

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...derby-day-card

largest growth in 18 years January 2018-2019. https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...creased-purses

This years Travers. Without the so called " winner" of the Derby https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...sources-handle

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...sources-handle

You get the idea. That was with one quick search. This wasn't my May post more thoughts. Just some actual numbers to go with what I had posted.
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post #26 of 38 Old 09-30-2019, 02:57 PM
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I remember thinking all of these same thoughts in the 70's when Wide World of Sports showed Steeple Chases. I loved to watch but cried more than once at hard falls and horse ambulances. I like to watch the races on TV - I am not a betting person but I love the horses. Racing is a beautiful sport but I wish there were more safety measures for the horses. Later racing starts. But I can say that for the AQHA Congress and Futurity shows as well. 2 yr old futurities means horses get backed as long yearlings. Horses are bred to be 16 and 17H and ridden way before they are mature physically.

I don't know anything about the big lick other than it looks grotesque - the movement is not natural and those chains and weights make me sick. But the WP lope does the same thing to me.
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post #27 of 38 Old 09-30-2019, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtokaGhosthorse View Post

The problem I see with the western disciplines is there are quarter horses with bad feet, PSSM, navicular and on it goes, are being allowed to be bred to keep the lines going (But also the problems) and they may find themselves in much the same boat in another 20-30 years. AQHA needs to get their crap together and get off their snooty high horse and allow some stouter blood to be bred into QHs.

I agree, these are my thoughts too. It's hard to knock Mustangs and grade horses when people are doing their best to screw up the purebreds..........(which actually started out as grades less than 100 years ago). I don't know why people don't breed with soundness as a priority. Soundness and temperment should be the number one concerns of any horse breeder out there.



I LOVE stout, chunky horses. But Quarter Horses aren't my favorites because so many (not all, but a LOT of them) have these muscular bodies on tiny legs and feet. I had a 14.3 Mustang that took a size 2 shoe. He looked like a shrunken down Belgian. I haven't seen very many Quarter Horses that take a size 2 shoe. Many are lucky if they wear a "0."
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There's a lot of stupid out there!
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post #28 of 38 Old 09-30-2019, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aubie View Post
It's happening here. I keep seeing racing is dying and on the decline. It's stated like its a fact. I stopped posting articles because there didn't seem to be any interest. Every meet for the last two or three years handles set records. Same at the sales. Colonial Downs had been closed but came back and had a nice meet and plans for the future. Kentucky Downs has been been on

the rise big time the last few years. It's always been a boutique meet as its a little different/turf course only. But they have been offering better purses because handle is up. Better purses bring better horse which brings more people. Churchill Downs wants to build another track . A little more to it with them but that's another topic.

NBC has expanded their coverage each of the last three years. They also include Royal Ascot now. Fox expanded big time this year in only their second year of a deal with NYRA, They now show every race. They did it to of course compete with another network. But also because more people are watching, so they can sell more commercials. All good that's their job.

In no way shape form or fashion in racing comparable with big lick. This is big lick https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=knRmU4eucFA

You simply can not get the big lick/win without soring. Stacks only get you so far. You can not get a horse to walk behind putting more pressure on the back feet to relive the front without it. The chain or "action devise" does nothing if a horse hasn't been snored. It sole purpose is to rub and irritate. Without soring they pay no more attention to it than a hoof protector or front wrap.

I do need to say I'm not lumping all TWH people in the same pot. There are natural classes and some try to complete in big lick with more humane practices.

I may post more thought in a bit.
I don't compare Big Lick and racing except in the shared belief that to continue to try to hide the abuse is a great strategy. That is exactly what is going to doom them, morality to one side, that plays right into the AR people's beliefs that they are fighting the good fight against monsters.

I would love to see no horses allowed to compete in anything except maybe pleasure driving classes, until after they are four years old. It wouldn't solve every problem but it would sure solve some of them. Yes, it would be more expensive to bring those horses up, but everyone would have to play at that level.
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Short horse lover
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post #29 of 38 Old 09-30-2019, 05:43 PM
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Maybe I am slow but what is AR ?
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post #30 of 38 Old 09-30-2019, 05:48 PM
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I think racing is comparable to big lick in the following way: I think both groups are out of touch with both the public AND other horse people. I think they don't even realize they have a bad reputation. They close themselves off in their own little world and think everything is okay and maybe no one will notice what goes on. Now I DO think big lick is worse about this than racing (how can they NOT see how disgusted everyone, even other horse people, are with soring?) but I think to a lesser extent racing is the same way.

I mean, I wish I cared more about racing, but I just don't see the attraction. And I really hate to see young horses destroyed for what reason.........so people can bet on them?

Any horse can break down. But here is a whole industry built around running really young horses just so people can bet on them. That's just not the reason I am drawn to horses.
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There's a lot of stupid out there!

Last edited by trailhorserider; 09-30-2019 at 05:53 PM.
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