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Bucking, Can't Find "Perfect" Horse, Give Up?

4K views 22 replies 19 participants last post by  Liligirl 
#1 ·
I just typed such a long post that got deleted! I guess I will try to make this shorter.

I've been searching for a backyard horse for myself and kids for a long time (2 years). Have had a lot of very bad experiences, driving hours to see a horse that bucks me off, for example. Test-rode plenty of horses that were advertised as "kid's" horses, but were too nervous, bucked or kicked right in front of me, at me, or while I was riding. Probably spent over two thousand dollars just in gas. Some of them I wouldn't even let my kids get on. I used craigslist, dreamhorse, trainers, and facebook groups. We just wanted a boring ol' horse we can ride in the pasture, w/t in the neighbor's arena, and maybe take an occasional lesson on. A "dead-head" would have been perfect!

Finally bought a horse that was supposedly a bomb-proof trail/kids horse. He bucked and was spooky. I gave him a lot of chances and ruled out some things, but decided he wasn't safe enough for the kids so I took him back (luckily had a trial period contract).

These experiences have caused me to lose a lot of confidence in myself. At one time I would have considered myself an intermediate rider, but I have to admit, I am pretty timid now. Maybe I am a "new beginner"? :) Haven't had a horse in over 15 years.

I gave up for a while. Did ride a horse that was great, but very expensive. I think sometimes a "good fit" means not buying a Mercedes when you're only looking for a Datsun.

We recently found what we thought was the perfect horse. And older QH that was being used at a kids camp. He gave lessons and did trails for the past 5 years, including this summer. Their records said he was 21 but looks older. He was very mellow, and did exactly what we asked, even the kids. Not a total "dead-head", but was the perfect amount of boring for us!

They said he trips when his feet gets long or when he's lazy. Also, he wouldn't eat apples or carrots when I brought him home. So I decided to do two things before really riding him: get a trim and a float. So until then I just had the kids leading eachother around bareback and in a halter. Everything was fine.

A few weeks ago I was leading one of my kids around in the front yard while waiting for the bus. I was turned around when the bus came and he bucked her off, I didn't see it. She was fine and got on the bus. I later led another kid around with no problems.

The farrier came last week and trimmed him right in the pasture. He spooked once but it was windy and under a lot of trees, so I figured that was natural.

Then yesterday, I had him in a halter and was going to lead my 8yo on him. He sort of moved sideways, like he was trying to keep the kid from getting on. You know how they step sideways like they think you won't get on if they are too far away? Anyway, it didn't seem unusual. But the second my kid got on, he started bucking. Not a lazy buck, it was a serious hard buck and the kid came off right away.

So now I am afraid to get on him or let my kids on him. I'm not sure where to go from here. There are lesson barns nearby, but I'm not sure if it is worth the cost? We aren't looking to show or anything. Plus, I don't think it's a good idea to have myself or kids take lessons on a horse that's having problems.

Maybe he was sore at that moment? Maybe he is a horse that needs to be ridden consistently in order to behave? Maybe he needs that barn/stable environment instead of pasture? Maybe it's US?

What would make a horse buck of a small child while just standing in a halter? My imagination is telling me that he is evil and wants to kill children. But seriously, I am feeling defeated and second-guessing myself. Is the universe telling me not to own a horse? Maybe I should just get rid of him and sell the trailer/tack, everything? It would eliminate a lot of stress. Last night I couldn't sleep, and this morning my hands started shaking at just the thought of riding him.

But there is the part of me that really enjoys riding and having a horse at home. I grew up with a horse that was my best friend. I miss all of that. I'm conflicted because horse ownership is something that I want again, but it's not working out despite my best efforts.

So today is his float appointment. I am going to try my best to be confident and brave so he doesn't know how weak and frightened I truly am. The "what-if's" keep running through my mind. What if I can't get him in the trailer, what if he hurts himself in there, what if he freaks out at the vet office and I can't get him home, what if we take him to lessons but he still behaves badly at home, what if I keep him and he hurts one of my kids...

If anyone can give me some advice, words of wisdom, or just understanding, I would really appreciate it.
 
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#2 ·
Besides leading this horse what kind of ground work have you done with him to prove to him you're a leader worth following? There is no such thing as a perfect horse and all horses want a leader. He's challenging you, what did you do when he bucked your child off? Did you just let him go and let him not work?
I dont know if you did but if you just let him go after that and didn't make him work he now has it in his head if he bucks the kid off he doesn't have to walk them around.

He is not evil and he is not being mean, he doesn't want to work, he doesn't respect you yet and he's found a way to get out of working by bucking your child off his back.

I would get someone more experianced out to help you and teach you. A trainer or just a friend with horses. Someone who knows how to handle them.
 
#4 ·
All these horses have been reading you like a book and have figured out they can get away with things. Time to take a business like attitude so don't talk to him or pet this one. Look at him in a way that he will die if he messes with you. If you're not using one buy an inexpensive knotted halter. When he steps away, drive him backwards hard, with taps to the chest with a crop or stick and pulls on the lead rope. Make him hustle for about 30'. Too bad if he wants to stop before you decide. It's not his decision. Don't pet or talk to him but lead him back to where you were and get on. If he moves away again, repeat as before only back him farther. Keep whapping on his chest to keep him going. Again back to where you started. You may have to do this a third time before he figures it out that what he's doing results in uncomfortable hard work. The dumb ones need a fourth. I think after this, if you react quickly to make him back, you'll find he's undergone a positive attitude adjustment as he's learned you're no one to mess with. You can do this with other behaviour issues that might show up. One refresher is likely all he'd need.
 
#5 ·
Yes, you have had a run of bad luck trying to find a suitable horse. It may be part 'you/us', but probably not all you/us. And the you/us part is fixable.

I'd be interested to hear how the teeth looked today. At his age ?>21, he may have some mouth issues that just recently became painful for him even without a bit in his mouth. Having to deal with even a little person on his back AND mouth pain might push him over the edge. I read an article once , the man had the horse for years, a dependable, solid, laid back horse. One day out of the blue , he bucked like crazy and through the man. He had avoided being mounted also, which was unusual for this horse. Turned out that he had a tooth abcess, and once this was treated and resolved, he was back to his cooperative,laid-back self.

Also, at his unknown age, maybe he has a sore back. Did the kids at camp ride in a saddle? Maybe having a rider without a saddle hurts him. not likely, but possible.
It sounds more like a pain issue to me. Can you have a vet and/or chiro check him out in addition to getting his teeth floated?
I understand that you are feeling so discouraged and fear for your children's safety. This is a very reasonable and logical feeling! However, it's very,very rare for a horse to be 'mean' and intend to hurt someone unless it is in self defense. They can unintentionally hurt someone just by being rude or pushy. A hurt child is a hurt child whether the horse meant to inflict harm or not, though. Just hoping to help you work thru the 'he wants to kill a child' thoughts.
If it were me, I think I would get some lessons, or help with a trainer, but just me ride him untill this gets sorted out and I felt like I could trust him again. This may take a while.
I also agree that groundwork can always help. Have you looked at any of the natural horsemanship information? My horse didnt buck, but he had issues that scared me, and learning how to communicate with him via natural horsemanship methods enabled me to keep him and finally trust him.
Pain issues probably will still elicit unwanted behavior, so that must be sorted out first.
also, it would be interesting to see if he would try to buck with you or another adult.
do you have friends with lots of experience that could help you ?

How old are your children? Do they wear helmets when riding ? :)

I'm also very much a 'what if' such and such happens kind of thinker, but sometimes that sets us up for the very thing we're hoping to avoid. As hard as it is, try to think positive... he WILL get in the trailer, he WILL be calm in the trailer, etc. So much of our emotions are picked up by the horse. It's hard, but try.

Keep us updated.
Fay
 
#6 ·
There are a lot of questions that I still have.

Are you and your children taking lessons? It doesn't matter how well trained a horse is, if they are not being handled correctly, their behavior will slip. Just because you don't want to be a nascar driver or truck driver, you still take drivers ed even though you will just casually drive. It's the same thing with horses. Ask yourself this, with all of these horses that you have looked at that have misbehaved, what is the common denominator?

What is the price range that you have been looking in? Good kids horses do not run cheap around here, you get what you pay for, for sure.

Why was the horse you bought being sold? Lots of these lessons horses don't do well when they're sold. They've been burnt out on beginners riding them and just don't have the patience for it anymore, haven't had enough people that can ride school them, they are used to being ridden a lot and don't do well with a more laid back schedule, they've worn poor fitting saddles and are sore, they aren't sound anymore and it hurts for them to be ridden, etc.

What did you do when he bucked your child off?

What did you do when he didn't stand to be mounted and then bucked?
 
#7 ·
^I agree 100% with breakable rider. I will add that a trainer does not equal showing. A trainer equals getting you the basics of horsemanship or a professional opinion on a horse. I seriously think it would be better for you and your safety (as well as your childrens) if you (and maybe the kids) took a few lessons and maybe got a professionals opinion on this horse to make an intelligent decision. This horse has read you like a book and with you being a beginner I think it would be well worth the money to take lessons.
 
#9 ·
How much work was he in at his previous home? If he was giving lessons for multiple hours per day and is still in good physical shape despite being older, he may simply have an overabundance of energy now that he has switched to being lightly worked occasionally. He may need a more consistent schedule with more challenging work.
 
#10 ·
Sell him. He is not as he was advertised. Bucking is dangerous!

I don't think you have the experience needed to work through those issues.

I think you would be better off investing in lessons. I have an old horse who would have been perfect for you a few years ago. Unfortunately she has some lameness issues now. She gets very lazy with beginners. If they can't signal her correctly and if their seat is insecure she gets really slow. Most beginners have trouble getting her to move faster than a walk or slow trot.

Keep looking. If you are willing to deal with an older horse you should be able to find a safe horse! There are better horses out there!

Lessons are a good idea. You could be making mistakes you don't realize you are making. Lessons are not just for showing! A good instructor should help you find an appropriate horse too.
 
#11 ·
If he's a good deal older than you originally thought, he could have arthritis that is making it painful for him to carry any weight.

Have you had an actual equine vet look at him and do a lameness exam?

It also sounds like you don't have a very large budget. Around here, a good solid kid's horse is worth their weight in gold. I've seen kid horses go for more than many performance horses.
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#12 ·
I knew plenty of old horses who might have had their defects, but they were able to safely carry a kid in a pasture without fuss. Over 20 and advertised as bombproof horses shouldn't put up an attitude.

I'd say you had serious bad luck. Anyway, from what you said, this horse is in pain.
 
#13 ·
Thanks to everyone! The vet visit went OK. I did get him in the trailer, but I had a silent internal freak out during the process and I didn't close the divider. No goats escaped. And I was kidding about horses wanting to kill children. :)

The vet didn't see anything wrong, his teeth seemed to be in pretty good shape and everything else looked normal. He floated his teeth. He guessed age 21 or older was accurate. There was one tooth that was slightly loose but he will look at it again next time we see him, vet didn't think it was a big deal.

My kids are 4, 6 and 8. They always wear helmets and boots. The older two have had lessons in a jumping barn. I did want them to continue occasional lessons so they know how to ride properly. But it's starting to seem like we need more than that. I've just sent an email to a trainer that was recommended to me, the vet said that she will travel. We'll see what happens. I don't have any "horse" friends around here anymore (which is why I am reaching out to the internet), so that will be helpful. I've met her before at the kids' old lesson barn and I really liked her.

I didn't see it when he bucked the first kid off, I was facing the other direction. I didn't put the kid back on because she had to get on the bus for school. But I did put another kid on later and he was fine, no problems. I figured he just got scared by the bus. Or maybe he didn't buck at all and he slipped and she fell off; we were going over a muddy lump. The second time was a different story. He was actively trying to get the kid off of him. It was fast and violent. There was no way I'd either put a kid back up there or even get on myself. I was scared. I didn't just let him go though, I walked him around for another 5 minutes or so, making him back up and do turns and things like that (which I know he doesn't enjoy). And then I didn't give him a treat. That's all I could think of at the time.

I think a lot of you have some good ideas; that we don't have the experience, that he is old and tired and knows he can get away with being naughty, that he might hurt somewhere. I think we can work with those things if the trainer can help. But if he is a horse that needs to be worked every day and becomes naughty after sitting for a few weeks, or if he is a horse that is fine in an arena but naughty in a back yard, then he is probably not a good fit for us. My old horse could sit for months and was still his normal self, but I know not all of them are like that.

The place he came from was a kids camp. He gave lessons and did trail rides. The horse manager said they were trying to reduce their herd age. Also, it looked like he was getting tired quicker than the other horses, and he would cough in the dusty arena. So they wanted him to retire. They thought he would be a good kids backyard horse. I was looking at horses in the $1000-4000 range, the first one I brought home was $1500. The camp only wanted $400 for this one, which they said was a reflection of his age.

The thing is, I am totally willing to put in the work and money of caring for an older retired horse. I was prepared for buying special supplements, making special feed, using him only for light riding, maybe more vet visits than average, and then just having a pasture ornament if he became lame or soemthing. I thought I would be a good retirement home. I wasn't prepared for the possibility of having to send him to the trainer (which the vet mentioned briefly) or the extra trainer and saddle time it sounds like we need. That is a lot more work than I anticipated. I know horses exist that can sit in the pasture and still behave themselves, and I know there are horses out there that are gentle and forgiving with inexperienced children.

I wanted to clarify that we do have the financial means to do these things; care for the horse and take him to a trainer. But, I do wonder if it is worth it to do all of that. I really am just looking for a horse we can ride once a week or so, not one that I need to troubleshoot or worry about.

I like this: "Look at him in a way that he will die if he messes with you." That is hard to do when you relize you don't really know what you're doing and the horse is on alert. But I am going to remember that and use it. I am going to say that to myself next time I load him up.

If we do end up getting rid of him, we will probably continue taking lessons. Maybe I will feel better when the kids are older and bigger.
 
#14 ·
I am glad to see that you are able to care for him. I think this can be made to work.

one question:
what are you feeding him? have you been giving him grain? and if so, is it more/different than what he is used to?

does he ever get out and move around? even an old horse sometimes has a bit a ya-ya moment, so letting him move around fully, run, jump, and all, can sometimes help;

and the saddle . . . is it the one he came with?

think back to the time you actually saw him buck . .. were there any possible things , like the child having something sharp, or some thing that might have triggered a violent eruption like that.

look into learning how to lunge him, and see if a little bit of that might loosen him up. a stiff horse is more likely to erupt than a supple one.
 
#15 ·
I think you need to give this horse away now and not give him a second chance.

Issue 1. Even if you get a trainer who is going to ride him? Obviously not you or your children. So that leaves it up to the trainer.

Issue 2 do you have enough money for the trainer to work him on a weekly basis?

Issue 3. Horses are smart. He may learn not to buck with the trainer, but as soon as you put a child up there, he may take advantage and try it again.

If he was a young horse who had never done something like that before it is different than an old horse who has learned to get away with things. Horses used for lessons often get burned out and learn to act up. If he is so spooky than he is not appropriate for a child.

After getting a concussion after getting bucked off, I have a deep dislike for buckers. A good horse won't buck short of getting attacked by bees. I've dealt with two buckers in the last year. One only does it once every few months so it is going to be very difficult for anyone to train him out of it, especially considering his rider is a child that he can overpower. Not my horse, not my child so it is out of my hands!

Either retire this horse or give him away and find something more suitable. Don't let your children get hurt. It is not worth ruining their love of horses.

Where are you located? There are a lot of good horses out there!

My neighbor was killed in a riding accident. Life is too precious to risk!
 
#17 ·
You do not need to get rid of this horse. Your next horse will just do the same thing.

Think for a minute -- what is the common denominator here? YOU!!!

Most horses do not stay 'honest'. Read the article at the top of the training section.
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/every-rider-trainer-every-time-you-85012/
You can interact correctly and they stay nice, stay honest and do not take advantage. You back up at the wrong time, you ask for something but do not follow through and make it happen, a horse gives you a wrong response and do not correct him and make him do it right -- all of these things lead to a horse that does not respect you. Some just get sloppy; Others turn into nervous, anxious nuts -- they need a strong leader; Some dominant ones get really obnoxious; Some can't stand prosperity -- you put them on hot feed and give them less work than they were used to and they get carried away with their new-found prosperity. All of these things and a dozen more lead to a horse that behaved perfectly in their previous home and turn into a different horse with your program and your lack of knowledge.

Regular lessons will not help you a bit. You need a mentor that can teach you how horses think and why they do what they do. We can spend about 2 days with someone new to horses and they come away from that with a much greater understanding of why horses do what they do and how to influence what they do. Most of the things people need to learn are little, seemingly insignificant things that are HUGE in a horse's mind. There are little things like backing a horse up at the right time, turning one the right direction, moving one back to where you wanted him when he step away or forward, and the list goes on and on and on.

Every single time you do the wrong thing, the horse is keeping score. Little mistake # 1,
Score is horse 1; Cowgirl 0

Little mistake #2,
Score is horse 2; Cowgirl 0

Little mistake number ??????
I am convinced that when the score reaches Horse 10; Cowgirl 0, most horses will not take you seriously for anything you want to do.

The score reaches horse 25; Cowgirl 3, he'll probably get too obnoxious to even safely handle.

So, my suggestion is to find someone that want to take you and your kids on as a 'project'. Until then, your best option would be partial lease so any horse you lease will stay where it is and have knowledgeable people handle and ride it part of the time.

You may also try to find some good rider that is an 'up and coming' trainer wannabe that will come to your place and help with lessons and let you do everything under their supervision. They can correct the mistakes you make as you make them. Right now, you do not know what you do not know.

Don't give up. Just make it your mission to learn how to get a horse to take you seriously and respect your wishes.
Cherie
 
#18 ·
I just wanted to update everyone who gave me advice about this.

Long story short, even the trainers can't keep him from bucking. I found out later that this is how he acted when the kids camp first acquired him. They were able to work it out of him because they rode every day. He probably reverted back to this because we aren't every day riders (and never planned to be).

Also, we don't really like him. We never developed any kind of bond. When the kids go out in the pasture and pet him, he will walk the other way. He doesn't seem to enjoy being brushed. He doesn't seem to care about treats. He has good ground manners; I give him baths, he's good for the farrier, I do ground work with him sometimes and he behaves. But he's really just tolerating us.

We also had one more accident. A kid got kicked. Not the horse's fault, it really was an accident that could happen to any horse or person. But it made me like him a little less, I can't help it.

So I've decided to get rid of him. I emailed his previous home to see if they might want him back (since they could use him every day and he seemed to do well with that), but haven't heard back from them yet. If they don't, I feel scared for his future (even though I don't like him) because there isn't really any kind of a market for an old horse with behavior problems, kwim?
 
#19 ·
Honestly, I think moving him on is the best idea.. Most of the time I am an advocate for working things through but you have bought this horse for a very specific purpose, must be able to be left in the paddock then ridden without being fresh, must be suitable for beginners, must not buck. Honestly there's just as many duds out there if not more then there is gems. It does take an experienced eye to pick those gems from the duds so my advice to you it to find a good trainer to help you buy your next one. There's plenty of subtle hints that indicate a horses personality, how they respond to pressure, and of course an experienced ear to wade through the things that the seller is telling you, those little red flags. There's a difference between 'suitable for a beginner' and 'suitable for confident beginner' or, 'fine after a spell' then being told, 'yep we lunge before every ride.' Honestly, your money will be better spent finding a good trainer, getting some lessons, and an experienced set of eyes to help you buy, and then work with you on your new horse. More expensive initially, but will save you heartache down the line. Just my two cents worth.
 
#20 ·
Sorry to say I have not read any of the replies, only the Original Post. I'll come back later and read them when I don't have my 3 yr old grandson to watch.

I feel this horse may need an 'instructor' there, one he will behave for in their presence no matter who is on top.

At the first barn my daughter took lessons at, and later leased from, and boarded at, ALL the horses would suddenly snap to best behavior the instant Jenny stepped into the barn. Even if not in sight, they knew.

Many would spook at a shadowy corner in the indoor arena, none would spook if Jenny was there.

So, you, the Mom here with past experience, must become the horse's on-hand instructor. I think you should work with her and ride her on your own until she considers you to be a Very Important Person.

If you are a re-rider, after many years off, it may be best to take some lessons yourself to brush up on things.

Good Luck.
 
#22 ·
I am sorry that, after a year of trying, this horse did not work out.

The first thing you need to do is stop looking for the "perfect" horse. They don't exist.

The saying I invented is: "if it has a heart and pumps blood, it's unpredictable". Some more than others.

Lessons were suggested at an early point in this thread for both you and the children. It is my belief you, at least, should have some lessons as to how to go about managing/disciplining/handling a horse so nobody gets hurts.

I don't mean to sound harsh but your children are involved. While some horses take longer than others do get your number and start walking all over you, eventually they all will from the sounds of things.

Last year you said it had been 15 years since you'd been around horses but you did not say what your level of handling experience was.

You have only posted four times, since acquiring this horse in September, 2014. There are a lot of experienced folks on this forum who are great at penning their thoughts. This is an instance where you may have been able to be helped.

Before looking for another horse, please get some lessons for yourself. You have to learn how to be the boss and fairly correct the horse when needed or horse ownership may very well be out the window.
 
#23 ·
I didn't read all the replies so sorry if this has been said. Have you called the old owners for advice? They probably have a pretty good idea of this horse and why he may have started acting out.

Also you mentioned he came from a lesson environment? So he has gone from probably a decent work load of being handled daily, ridden multiple times a day. If not being ridden he is probably boxed or tied up incase he is needed. Every little thing he has done has probably been corrected immediately. To one where he isn't getting a lot of work and little things not being corrected?

I have an older mare one that is old enough to know all her manners and to have seen it all.

However if not worked, handled daily or the little things corrected then you better watch out. She will turn into a fire breathing dragon that will buck you off in a second and will also become aggressive.
 
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