Does licking and chewing mean the horse is "digesting a thought"? - Page 6 - The Horse Forum
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post #51 of 62 Old 07-09-2017, 11:37 AM
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RE: WHY we ride drives HOW we ride, and how we train.

Comment: IMO, this is pretty good and worth repeating.
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post #52 of 62 Old 07-09-2017, 12:08 PM
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I actually agree with both of you, fore the most part this morning!
I often wonder why I never pushed myself to show at the World level, was it only the money, or perhaps, doing what 'everyone does', when the stakes are high, with lots of money invested.
I like to think not, as I refused to follow what were common practices, even on the breed local circuit. I never had healthy hocks injected, a tail altered, and when I ran games, I did so in a snaffle and never carried a bat
My mares were never on regulmate.
Far as equitation position, I think we have discussed it before, and it certainly varies from 'classical' position on the flat, to what is needed, in many activities
,,To stay with a horse, you do have to be centered, legs under you , and not in an arm chair position Stirrups, even on modern western saddles, allow your legs to move as they need to, allowing you to move them forward, in such things as a hard stop, for instance
I don't ride down the trail as if I am being judged in an equitation class! I switch rein hands whenever i feel like it, just sit relaxed, and it is natural for me to ride with heels down, some weight in the stirrups. You can also stay with a horse much better that way, during sudden moves I have not consciously put myself in any position, it is just 'natural' I ride with longer stirrups then many, most likely going back to my knees
At times I just have my reins draped over my saddle, using both hands on my camera
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post #53 of 62 Old 07-09-2017, 12:52 PM Thread Starter
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My wife may ride 6 times in a week, then not ride for 2 months. My goal for my horses is to get all of them to where she can ride them safely. Trooper and Cowboy are there. Bandit is headed in that direction. But THAT goal obviously requires a different approach than I would take if my goal was to be able to ride Bandit at a high level. Because my wife needs a horse she can just trust while riding simple...and I think that trust is WHY she rides:



I respect people who can compete without losing their values. My Dad was hyper-competitive. I inherited some of it. More than I like. And if I competed on a horse, I'd sacrifice my horse to win. I'd be ashamed of myself afterward, but I'd do it. So I don't compete. MY personality affecting MY way of riding.

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Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
...I switch rein hands whenever i feel like it, just sit relaxed, and it is natural for me to ride with heels down, some weight in the stirrups....it is just 'natural' I ride with longer stirrups then many, most likely going back to my knees...
Not there yet, but it is the way I am headed. One of the things I like about the saddle @SouthernTrails built for me is that I can put my legs anywhere I want, when I want.
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Riders ask "How?" Horsemen ask "Why?"

Last edited by bsms; 07-09-2017 at 12:57 PM.
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post #54 of 62 Old 07-09-2017, 12:57 PM
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Well! While we're all feeling warm and fuzzy, I need to hand you a big thank you @Smilie .

I'll expose my ignorance by revealing that until you mentioned Liberty Training in an above post, the term had somehow escaped my knowledge base for the past three years.

In spending some time with Google this morning on the subject, it became apparent that has been what I may have been searching for in many of my posts.

Liberty Training does appear to begin to closely describe "Why I Ride" and also "Why I Choose To Have Horses In My Life".

Sometimes I wonder how much strife could be avoided with face to face discussions rather than in print.
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post #55 of 62 Old 07-09-2017, 03:11 PM
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It was just too hot to ride today, so I did some groundwork with my new horse instead. Yesterday on a ride, he spooked at something (still don't know what) and jumped sideways so fast I nearly came off, which is rare. Then something on the other side spooked him and he jumped back the other way and tried to buck. Got him bent around and stopped, then we continued on our ride and he was fine, just more jumpy than usual. So yeah, today we worked on more desensitizing.

We met the 'big scary plastic bag' on the end of a stick. He'd stand for a bit, them jump around and scoot and act like an idiot. Then stand, then repeat. His modus operandi seems to be one big spook, then we accept it for a bit, then we spook again, then we accept it, etc. How I know he's not relaxed and will spook again? No licking and chewing. I don't place a ton of value on that as a be-all and end-all in training, but I was paying pretty close attention on it over working with him this week, and it seems to be a reliable indicator for him. When I introduced the clipper the other day, he seemed accepting and stood relaxed as I clipped part of his bridle path, then jumped away again. Repeated showing it to him and working up his neck and back down and after a minute or two he dropped his head, relaxed, cocked a leg, and chewed. Finished clipping his bridle path and neatened up his coronets and under his jaw and he never moved a muscle and was snoozing by the time I was done. Today the same with the bag-- flipped it all over, whacked it on the ground, got him to stand relaxed with it whipping back and forth all over and brushing against him and around his feet and up under his flanks and face. Soft eye, relaxed posture, very accepting and calm in his body language. I thought we were done for the day and then the wind caught it and he jumped sideways and scooted around in a circle a bit. I kept moving it that way until he stopped, then until he relaxed, then until he chewed then rubbed on him with it. He did not even consider spooking at it again today. So for him, the licking and chewing seems to be pretty reliable that he's thinking and accepting.

He's also afraid of being in the barn when people are with him and very spooky in there, so I started with the bag once we were in the barn again, which would usually bother him, but no. He stood nicely and calmly and licked and chewed and we ended there for the day and he was groomed and fly sprayed and I loved on him a bit and turned him out. Rather than racing back to his pasturemate, he hung out at the gate with me for awhile. It's the most relaxed I've seen him in the three weeks I've had him.

My old gelding wasn't a 'lick and chewer'. My mare never got worked up enough to get stressed enough to do it (you literally couldn't spook her if you tried) but for my new guy, it seems to be a pretty reliable indicator that he's making some progress. It will be interested to see how that pans out over the course of his rehab and training.
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post #56 of 62 Old 07-09-2017, 05:43 PM
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Well, after further perusal I see that all Liberty Training is not equal. Even CA practices it and recommends that the horse first be taken through beginner, intermediate, and advanced training befor Liberty Training. Half way through one of his introductory videos the horse seemed to flinch sideways in order to avoid an anticipated physical correction for a small error, (which it turned out the horse did not commit).

So that was not quite what I had in mind.

I'm more interested in the principles found in frinedshiptraining.org where no devices, not ever clickers, are used but rather reward only. No pressure release, none of that.

They have a Yahoo Group and also Facebook. The principles sound a little extreme but at worst I should be able to at least find a few like-minded people and hopefully some resources for the type training they advocate or something similar.

But I still appreciate the term Liberty Training as it led me to an area of horse training that I have been searching for and wondered if even existed.

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post #57 of 62 Old 07-10-2017, 12:36 AM
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Yes, most liberty training, first has that horse well trained, 'conventionally\, so that you can drop the aids,like a bit, and ride just the training
Of course, liberty training is integral for animals that perform to cues alone,be it circus animals or those exhibitions that are so popular
I do enjoy watching some liberty work,and why I attend Cavelia whenever it is in the area
I just got back from a very long ride with my son and his significant other
We rode all the way in to the Panther cabin,with several river crossings, some trials along the edge of a cliff, and I just trust my horse to negotiate them on a loose rein, otherwise, you can screw up their footing.
No place to try and micro manage a horse!
We had three dogs along.KInda funny how they have learned to let the river current carry them, and downstream, at an angle, until they get closer to shore
All well and good, but my son's dumb lab jumped in up river from my hrose, and drifted right under her! Carmen was great!
My son did from then on, cross rivers first with his lab, and then we crossed
No sighting of that sow grizzly and cubs, who was there a week before,but we did find scat
To me, a ride like that proves I must be doing something right, have that connection and trust with my horse.
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post #58 of 62 Old 07-10-2017, 09:03 AM
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Well I don't think anybody here including me thinks you don't have connection and trust with your horse.

But I am very interested in what they are doing at friendshiptraining, or FT as they call it. The Yahoo site is still there but they have moved to Facebook which I no longer have. So I'll need to learn some more about the controls and privacy before I open another account.

FT, and perhaps others, uses no round pen, no whips or sticks, no pressure release, no avoidance, no clickers, no confinement or obstructions to fleeing/escape. All training is said to be done in an open field from day one.

I read the guys bio and he does appear to have a lot of experience. Everything sounds very interesting to me along with the welcome recieved. So far, I have not encountered any request for money or donations but I have not been to the FB site yet.

I'm very excited to explore this new paradigm.

The Mustang has no place in modern society. The Mustang belongs on the range or in a supportive forever home.
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post #59 of 62 Old 07-10-2017, 09:27 AM
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I just watched the lady's video up through the 10 minute mark where I aborted.

I don't know when the video was made, or who has been trimming that foot, but the heels were extremely imbalanced with one being way way forward of the other.

I think I agree that an under run heel can cause flaring at the quarters but saw no mention of the imbalance of the heels that had been allowed to exist.

As for as the hoof not having a natural arch, well that flies in the face of every professional and every feral wild horse.

I understand getting "off the wall thinking", I do it all the time. But I do not understand someone deciding their thinking is correct without consulting professionals whose lives have been spent in thoughtful research and collaboration with others in the same field.

I might have watched the rest but there are cloudy days now from the monsoon season and I need to save my precious solar electrons for other things and not need to start up a generator.

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post #60 of 62 Old 07-10-2017, 11:45 AM
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You lost me, Hondo. What lady's video?
Was this a hoof forum post?
Sorry, just waking up slowly, yesterday was a long ride for an old gal,and then I still had Smilie and Charlie to take care of, when I got home
My son sort of forgets how old his mother is, so we push the envelope more then when just riding with hubby. At least, he likes to take me, so all good!
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