Fix horse bolting (know the issue) - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 25 Old 06-11-2017, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DanisMom View Post
I sure wouldn't be using him for lessons until this problem is completely resolved.
he has only been a lesson horse for 4 months :) and that is the only way he can stay.
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post #12 of 25 Old 06-11-2017, 09:24 PM
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Agree with all that has been said,far as both the legs gripping, using a saddle, while fixing his bolting, and taht he might also have your number, bareback. He got you off, and you could not stop him
Occasional bareback is fine, short term, on a horse with no back issues, and one that is broke
I think perhaps you need to learn to be comfortable riding in a saddle. I grew up riding bareback, and when I first rode with a saddle,I tried to ride in it as if I was riding bareback-very uncomfortable!
A saddle allows you to keep legs off a horse, unless you intend to use a leg aid, plus you have away more independant seat,so never wind up balancing on the reins. You can also distribute some weight into the stirrups,and sure easier to take ahorse's head away, riding with a saddle, but don't use that , until you teach the horse at slower gaits, what is known as the one rein stop, although I prefer taking the head away,which does not mean necessarily that you stop all movement
Why are you running a horse with other horses, that bolts, and when you don't have the training or the skill to shut him down
No training is better then negative training!
If your seat is better bareback, and you come off, that does not say much far as your experience riding with a saddle, and I suggest you start by learning to ride well it agood fitting saddle, so you have that independent seat, so you don't have legs on the horse constantly, so you can easily take the head away with one rein
It sounds rather 'out of control', having him stop his bolt, being cut off by another horse, as the last thing ahorse needs that gets strong, that bolts, is to be run with other horses, until those holes are fixed at the slower gaits
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post #13 of 25 Old 06-11-2017, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tinyliny View Post
he is probably a horse that cannot handle it when a person grabs up with their legs, such as they might do when riding bareback or without stirrups. I agree with every word of @Avna .
Ha, ha! I practiced bareback riding on my OTTB in the arena, and my instructor told me that, rather than just holding on with my thighs, I can wrap my legs around her. Being the cautious type, I touched her slightly with my calves, and off we went on a trot - nothing uncontrollable, but still enough to make me believe that "wrapping my legs around her" isn't going to happen without further desensitization work. OP: Could "unintentional aids" be your issue?
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post #14 of 25 Old 06-12-2017, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by midasthepony View Post
he has only been a lesson horse for 4 months :) and that is the only way he can stay.
I'm also now unclear on the whole situation. Do you work at this establishment? Anyone who puts a learner rider on a known bolter is just a stupid idea. If you insist on this horse remaining a 'lesson horse' then you need to ensure only experienced riders use him, and with a saddle. Or be prepared for some deserved litigation.

You have also said he is fine at a sitting trot bareback. You've also said when beginners ride him, he speeds up when they bounce - assuming that is saddled? I'd assume that was likely out of fear or pain, that he's trying to 'run out from under them' and you say he's wide eyed in fear when bolting... Doesn't sound like any kind of lesson horse to me.
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post #15 of 25 Old 06-12-2017, 11:34 AM
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Have to say from the OP's posts, this seems like a case of particularly hapless management. I get a vision of a panic-stricken horse stampeding through a bunch of beginner riders, an incompetent instructor who can neither read horses nor conceive of the simplest solutions (such as don't do what got him riled up in the first place until figuring out what just happened), a beginner rider on an inappropriate horse which has no way of solving its own problems, and no hope of any human helping him, either.

Ugh. I feel really sorry for this poor horse.
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post #16 of 25 Old 06-14-2017, 03:41 PM
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OP- if you work there and give lessons or even just put students on this horse, carry your own liability insurance policy.
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post #17 of 25 Old 06-16-2017, 06:48 AM Thread Starter
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guys the owner of my barn is one of the most well known trainers/instructors in my area, and is very highly spoken of.
let me clear some stuff up as I believe that some words have been changed.

this horse is an ex champion campdrafter. he is 7yrs old and competed in National campdrafting competitions for the past 2-3 years. I am an experienced rider and his taking off is not a reflection of my riding, as 99% of the time we are an unstopable pair and I am one of the top junior riders in my area.
when he was first purchased by my instructor I was the first one to ride him. he was quite scared in the new environment and it took me half an hour to get on him. once I was on him he was great, except his canter was very rushed, which I do not blame him for as it was his first time being ridden in the new environment and he has had over a week off work prior. since then he improved heaps and became the go to horse for all levels of riders, with beginners through to older ladies who just plod around on him and me, who showjumps him and will be starting to compete him in the coming months. After a while I decided to ride him bareback as he is very solid and comfortable. He had never taken off with anyone before so we did not expect it at all. He was fine as i was walking him and then as soon as I trotted him he took off. Please note that my seat bareback is very good, so for him to get me off it was very sudden and unexpected and hard to stay on. After this my instructor got me back on him and we took him for another trot while she was leading him, he was quite tense but we could not tell if it was just because he was already a bit shaken from having his rider come off him or if it was from the trotting. We didn't really give it a second thought as he was fine after that when I put a saddle on him. Fast forward 2 weeks, my less experianced friend was practising her sit trot on him, she was going very well so she tried stirrupless, in under 3 seconds he had taken off, luckily she managed to find her stirrups and stay on. after that he was fine once she kept her stirrups.

This horse is truly an amazing horse, he seems to love being ridden (especially jumping and trailriding) and is generally a very relaxed and happy horse.

Please do not say anything about my instructor as she is truly amazing and has helped me heaps in the time I have known her
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post #18 of 25 Old 06-16-2017, 08:12 AM
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Midas, we only had the words you gave us, so responded to them, for what we imagined was going on. So thanks for the further explanation - it helps understand better. I assume this is your instructors horse & she is charging money for rides/lessons on him. So... much below may be out of your control & would be my advice to her, but...

As he is like this, I would not be putting beginners on him, until it is all worked out/sorted. And the advice about liability - not to mention moral liability - still stands. Being the owner, esp if she is a 'professional' asking for money for rides, knowing the horse is like this - it's not just a generic 'horseriding is dangerous' thing - makes her fully responsible for any harm that comes to anyone.

Legal liability has become a very real concern here, like some... other countries. I know this because I am also a horse professional in Australia. I was shocked to learn just how far it extends(for eg. even if I'm on a horse property & someone is in a risky situation - such as someone doing something stupid, or a child unsupervised around a horse, even if it's nothing at all to do with me, I as a professional am deemed fully, legally responsible for any harm that may ensue to anyone, unless I have expressly warned & advised them. Yeah, stupid extremes I reckon, but it is what it is.

I would want the issue sorted before I put anyone else on him actually, aside from a paid trainer, because the same legal/moral responsibility applies regardless of rider skill, if they're paying for the privilage. But I would consider people like yourself to help me get him over it, if I thought you had the skill & knowledge to deal with it, and were willing. You would also be signing a form to acknowledge you understand his behaviour, the risks and absolve me from legal responsibility, as you are volunteering as a trainer. At very least, experienced riders should be fully informed of his behaviour & I would not be charging them to help me.

It sounds like he is afraid, for whatever reason. Perhaps as previously suggested, the gripping with legs, perhaps not. I'd start with lunging him with a couple of feed bags on him, see how he does with that. Light first, gradually try heavier, other stuff dangling, etc. I'd ensure he was OK with that before putting a rider on him, bareback or stirrupless. And before I did that, I'd also ensure he had a really good 'emergency brake'(I like to use a 'one rein stop') when ridden saddled, really solid. Then try him out bareback in a 'safe' environment like an enclosed arena or such. Practice your emergency stops & ensure they're good at a walk & slow trot first, before asking for faster. Try to 'shut him down' when he starts to get antsy, don't let him get too stressed. Let him relax before trying again. Rinse & repeat, ad nauseum!
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post #19 of 25 Old 06-16-2017, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by midasthepony View Post
...Please do not say anything about my instructor as she is truly amazing and has helped me heaps in the time I have known her
Then let her handle it. If an amazing instructor cannot handle it when watching the horse daily, then people reading a few sentences on the Internet won't be able to help.

I don't know the liability law in Australia. In the US, many states have laws limiting liability with horses, but those laws generally assume a good faith effort on the part of the horse owner. You cannot, for example, put a badly maintained saddle on a horse and then claim protection from liability. As a general rule...a written release of liability doesn't count if the student lacks the experience needed to give informed consent or if information is withheld from the student.
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post #20 of 25 Old 06-16-2017, 11:49 AM
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LEts just say, if this instructor puts you on ahorse, that bolts, that needs to be stopped by other horses cutting him off what in the heck kinda lesson place are you at?
What is that horse learning? Your instructor should be riding this hrose, shutting him down when he attempts to bolt, making the wrong thing hard and the right thing easy. Even then, this horse might never be a lesson horse, reverting to vises when he feels the rider is lacking, and ,afterall, experienced riders are not likely to be taking lessons!
Even well broke hroses, used for extended times as a lesson horse, often develop problems, as there is the fact that horses are trained each time we ride them, for the good or the bad, and only consistent good riding maintains a horse.
So, to start with ahrose that already has problems, and make him into a lesson horse,is rather wrong, JMO. Of course, some barns do buy these horses, as they are cheap .
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