Help with disrespectful manners! - Page 5 - The Horse Forum
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post #41 of 50 Old 10-30-2015, 07:19 PM
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When it's less than clear what is meant by disrespectful manners it is more than difficult to quote a clear formula for success.

Loosie suggested that respect is a two way street. I think that is an important place to start by examining what we or they feel respect for the horse might mean and if it is present.

Without a feeling of respect for the horse, many suggestions that "might work-if the actual behavior problem was defined" could easily fail if that respect was not present.

It'd be interesting to hear what others think respect for the horse means or if it means anything.

I really think that is important "groundwork" before talking about disrespectful horses. IMO YMMV
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What would Xenophon say?
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post #42 of 50 Old 10-30-2015, 08:15 PM
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Emore, we got a bit off track, discussing 'respect' - altho it was OP that brought up the term, so I was thinking the discussion should be helpful to them anyway. True, a couple of people got overly judgemental without really giving any helpful suggestions, but a number of us have given some helpful suggestions too... considering OP was vague about the 'problems', so the suggestions have also been rather general.

So how about a follow up OP? Have you got much out of this discussion? Put some different tactics in place with your horse? Changed your views on anything...?
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post #43 of 50 Old 10-30-2015, 09:20 PM
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Well, Hondo, to me respect for a horse is to treat them as what they are, a sentient being, and if they belong to you, they are a sentient being that has found themselves in your care - so you have a responsibility to be considerate of their being.

For example, horses raised on the range are given a "foundation" to their education. They are not smarter than their counterparts raised in confinement, they are just better educated. And, one should "respect" the horse enough to take the differences into consideration. It has been my experience that young horses that have been stalled/kept in a paddock and not worked with much are much more likely to not understand "personal space" than a range raised youngster that has never been handled. I think it would be "disrespectful" of the stalled youngster in this example to call their lack of education, which is no fault of their own, "disrespect". :) I mean, how would a human respond to being drop kicked into a new Russian speaking home, and slapped upside the head for "disrespectfully" not understanding a word they said?
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There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it.
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post #44 of 50 Old 10-31-2015, 02:26 AM
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if they belong to you, they are a sentient being that has found themselves in your care - so you have a responsibility to be considerate of their being.
Hear hear!
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post #45 of 50 Old 10-31-2015, 09:43 AM
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My horse just a few weeks ago had horrible ground manners. He would walk all over me and pull me into stalls. He even was almost hit by a car because he got loose at the park. He had some injuries and some pretty bad stiffness. So I've been lunging him. He has a bad habit of getting too close to me while lunging, but if you put the whip in the direction of his head without actually whipping him he moved out. Sometimes I put a ground pole and make him trot over it. And then when we get in front of his stall, I make him stand. Then I let him in. He usually has leftover dinner in his stall. I stood in front of the food and push away his neck whenever he puts his head down (not aggressively!). After just 3 days of this he now waits calmly by me until I tell him he can have his food.

I think that your horse not respecting you is a big deal. It's not okay that a 900-1300 pound animal does not think of you as their leader. It could potentially be very dangerous as well. Like what happened to my horse.

Respect from the owner, now that's a little more tricky to answer. I think it may be not running them into the ground. To care for them and pamper them. Simply to show them you love them. I've found that breathing into their nostrils is a good way to earn their trust.
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post #46 of 50 Old 10-31-2015, 07:01 PM
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Respect from the owner, now that's a little more tricky to answer. I think it may be not running them into the ground. To care for them and pamper them. Simply to show them you love them. I've found that breathing into their nostrils is a good way to earn their trust.
Flecks, I suggest there are a lot better ways to work with a horse on the ground, especially for the 'manners' you have said your horse needed to learn, than lunging.

If we think of 'respect' just as 'obedience' & 'subservience', then maybe it's an easier concept than discussing respect FROM human to horse... but I don't think 'caring for them' is the same sort of thing. People claim to 'care for' & 'love on' horses all the time without having a lot of understanding or respect. And breathing into a horse's nose to 'earn trust'?? I don't even have a clue what you think that's about or how it could work. Sounds like a joke, but...??
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post #47 of 50 Old 10-31-2015, 07:17 PM
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Respect from the owner, now that's a little more tricky to answer.
I think it's at least partly treating them as you would want to be treated, whether they are aware of it or not or whether they care or not.

Not rinsing one's hands in the horse tank might be one. Even though he might not give a hoot, I tend to be inclined that the fact that one is considerate is somehow known by the horse.

Throw the off side stirrup over the saddle before dragging the saddle off? What the heck, he doesn't care. But.........well, just maybe.

And and acknowledgement and respect for the fact that for the most part unlike most dogs, a horse is held in captivity mostly against his will. It's with that in mind that I consider anything I receive from Hondo to be a true gift.

I think respect is more of a feeling than an act. Whether it's human to horse or horse to human.

What would Xenophon say?
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post #48 of 50 Old 10-31-2015, 09:39 PM
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I think respect is more of a feeling than an act. Whether it's human to horse or horse to human.
I would agree and add that the actions would naturally follow once the feeling is there. Respect in a human to human situation can vary with the individual. One trait that I would respect in a person is them having the capability to be respectful. Respect between the two species either human to horse or horse to human becomes more complicated, which is why I usually don't find the actions of some horses being "disrespectful". It is not the same as an adult human being disrespectful and more like a child who was never taught to behave properly. I don't think respect can be taught as a separate issue, I think it has to be earned and in part by being respectful and understanding the reason behind the behavior. I am not criticizing the OP here and believe they are asking for help so my advice is to work on every issue as they happen. Stop thinking that you have a disrespectful horse and see it as him needing training in these areas
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post #49 of 50 Old 10-31-2015, 09:42 PM
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add that the actions would naturally follow once the feeling is there.
Exactly

What would Xenophon say?
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post #50 of 50 Old 10-31-2015, 09:51 PM
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We use words like respect when talking with others because it's a concept they understand. It takes the place of a lengthy explanation. When horses are disciplined there are seldom any issues. Now by discipline I'm talking the real meaning, disciple - teacher. Teach the horse in a way he understands, using the least amount of pressure or tap to start with then gradually increasing it until the horse takes you seriously and understands your request. Sometimes all you can ask for is a couple of inches or the rocking of the body and build on that.



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