Horse with horrible bit scar, what is he thinking?!? - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 76 Old 09-07-2016, 02:58 PM
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Frankly, I find it asinine to suggest a curb bit in this situation. Just sticking a curb on doesn't "automatically fill in training holes."

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post #22 of 76 Old 09-07-2016, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by phantomhorse13 View Post
If he was a racehorse in the past, it could be the scarring you see on his tongue was from a too-tight tongue tie versus a bit.
I guess there must be more than one sort of tongue tie? I was interested in them so had a trainer show me how they do them when we were visiting the racing barn, they used soft material, I couldn't see that scarring.

Also if he was a racehorse they are used to contact meaning go faster, it takes a while to change that training.
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post #23 of 76 Old 09-07-2016, 05:03 PM
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If he were mine I'd consider putting him in a traditional hackamore treat him like a green broke horse. From the sounds of it, regardless of his experience he isn't what I would call "broke".
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post #24 of 76 Old 09-07-2016, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EliRose View Post
Frankly, I find it asinine to suggest a curb bit in this situation. Just sticking a curb on doesn't "automatically fill in training holes."
Perhaps you ought to try reading what I wrote, then:

"it requires training the horse to curb bit cues from the beginning, and that can automatically fill in training holes"

As far as asinine...it has worked well for me and for some others. So I made a suggestion. You don't like it? Fine. But please do not distort what I said...

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post #25 of 76 Old 09-07-2016, 05:49 PM
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[QUOTE=bsms;9375050]Perhaps you ought to try reading what I wrote, then:

"it requires training the horse to curb bit cues from the beginning, and that can automatically fill in training holes"QUOTE]


Training the horse to curb bit cues makes no since most horses are started in a snaffle which has no leverage nor does it work on the horse's jaw and poll as a vice. When I transition a horse from a snaffle to a curb, it sure doesn't automatically fill in training holes----those holes are still there regardless of what bit is used. All too many ride horse using only their hands for control when correct riding combines the natural aids of seat, weight, core, and legs to cue the horse with the reins only used to refine the communication. Forget about what bit is being used and ride correctly! It makes no difference what bit is in the horse's mouth if he understands how to work off the natural aids.


To fill in training holes requires taking the horse back to earlier lessons and finding those holes, then fixing each one , going forward looking for the next hole, fix it, rinse and repeat. Sometimes that means starting as if the horse has never been handled and knows absolutely nothing. This is what I did with our rescued TWH mare who had a long confirmed history of abuse that involved 2 court cases----today I can just hop on her bareback with no halter or bridle and safely ride her any place and over fences because she understands the cues from my seat, weight, legs, and core and is soft and responsive.
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post #26 of 76 Old 09-07-2016, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Prairie View Post
When I transition a horse from a snaffle to a curb, it sure doesn't automatically fill in training holes----those holes are still there regardless of what bit is used. All too many ride horse using only their hands for control when correct riding combines the natural aids of seat, weight, core, and legs to cue the horse with the reins only used to refine the communication.
Quite, Prairie, as @EliRose it IS asinine to think that a curb magically fixes anything. A horse should be solid in a snaffle before transitioning to a curb, because that transition should also be the rider moving from using some contact, to very little contact...

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post #27 of 76 Old 09-07-2016, 06:01 PM
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[quote=Prairie;9375122]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms View Post
Perhaps you ought to try reading what I wrote, then:

"it requires training the horse to curb bit cues from the beginning, and that can automatically fill in training holes"QUOTE]


Training the horse to curb bit cues makes no since most horses are started in a snaffle which has no leverage nor does it work on the horse's jaw and poll as a vice. When I transition a horse from a snaffle to a curb, it sure doesn't automatically fill in training holes----those holes are still there regardless of what bit is used. All too many ride horse using only their hands for control when correct riding combines the natural aids of seat, weight, core, and legs to cue the horse with the reins only used to refine the communication. Forget about what bit is being used and ride correctly! It makes no difference what bit is in the horse's mouth if he understands how to work off the natural aids.


To fill in training holes requires taking the horse back to earlier lessons and finding those holes, then fixing each one , going forward looking for the next hole, fix it, rinse and repeat. Sometimes that means starting as if the horse has never been handled and knows absolutely nothing. This is what I did with our rescued TWH mare who had a long confirmed history of abuse that involved 2 court cases----today I can just hop on her bareback with no halter or bridle and safely ride her any place and over fences because she understands the cues from my seat, weight, legs, and core and is soft and responsive.
Thank you.

I wanted to say the same, but I believe I am blocked, so would have wasted my time.
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post #28 of 76 Old 09-07-2016, 06:05 PM
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LOL, @Golden Horse , I'm still looking for that Magical bit that fixes everything.


The reality is that many bits are misused and become torture devices in the name of training. Training is not using a bigger, harsher bit, it's teach the horse the correct response to the various pressure points used, rewarding him by the release of the pressure, with the aim of a horse who is soft and responsive regardless of what is hanging on his head.
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post #29 of 76 Old 09-07-2016, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms View Post
Perhaps you ought to try reading what I wrote, then:

"it requires training the horse to curb bit cues from the beginning, and that can automatically fill in training holes"

As far as asinine...it has worked well for me and for some others. So I made a suggestion. You don't like it? Fine. But please do not distort what I said...
The other ladies explained, but yeah I misread nothing.

“Thoroughbreds are the best. They’re lighter, quicker and more
intelligent. The best of any breed is the Thoroughbred horse, the best
of that breed is better than any other breed." - George Morris
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post #30 of 76 Old 09-07-2016, 06:10 PM
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I'm struggling to see how anyone can make any judgements on how well (or not) this horse has been trained without actually sitting on it themselves. Even a video isn't going to really tell you something like that
I'm pretty sure that if most of the members here were to try to ride Carl Hester's Olympic horse Nip Tuck they'd end up in a deep mess because it takes a very skilled and in tune rider to handle some horses - has nothing at all to do with holes in training.
I wouldn't want to say that a horse that gets excitable on the trails because its not used to them had holes in its training in an arena environment because I haven't seen it perform in one and certainly never ridden it myself because you can only get a horse used to dealing with something new by taking it somewhere new
I've seen bombproof steady eddie kid's ponies turn into fire breathing dragons on their first days hunting and need a Pelham or something stronger for extra brakes till they get used too it
Many showjumpers and eventing riders use a stronger bit for jumping/cross country than the one they usually ride in
Is that also asinine?
One of our 'owners' when I worked with horses used to hunt her horse in an American gag - she was a weekend rider and couldn't hold him in anything else, the rest of us rode him in a snaffle and he was trained well enough to win a lot of dressage classes and Working Hunter classes so 'no holes' anywhere, he just needed some extra brakes at times
I can't call bsms' suggestion to use a curb bit asinine because for all we know the horse might have previously been ridden in one for the longest time so it's what he's used too
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