Horse pulling back and Barn Freakouts. - Page 12 - The Horse Forum
 314Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #111 of 119 Old 05-08-2019, 10:12 PM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: middle of nowhere
Posts: 3,169
• Horses: 3
I'm curious. If your dad or someone else stands and holds the rope with some slack in it rather than tying, does his behavior change much? Can you leave the leadrope on the ground or draped (not wrapped) over your left arm and saddle him?

If a horse is iffy about being saddled, groomed, flysprayed, hosed, clipped, whatever-- I don't tie them for that. I let them move if they want to, but we can go around in circles all day and when their feet stop moving, I remove whatever they're upset about, step back, let them relax, and try again. It's amazing how soon even a snorty colt will figure out to stand still and relaxed. Only once they are completely relaxed about whatever I'm doing when untied (eyes half closed, ears at half mast, leg cocked) will I even consider tying for that, especially with a horse who has a history of pulling.
SilverMaple is offline  
post #112 of 119 Old 05-09-2019, 06:08 AM Thread Starter
Weanling
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 389
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverMaple View Post
I'm curious. If your dad or someone else stands and holds the rope with some slack in it rather than tying, does his behavior change much? Can you leave the leadrope on the ground or draped (not wrapped) over your left arm and saddle him?

If a horse is iffy about being saddled, groomed, flysprayed, hosed, clipped, whatever-- I don't tie them for that. I let them move if they want to, but we can go around in circles all day and when their feet stop moving, I remove whatever they're upset about, step back, let them relax, and try again. It's amazing how soon even a snorty colt will figure out to stand still and relaxed. Only once they are completely relaxed about whatever I'm doing when untied (eyes half closed, ears at half mast, leg cocked) will I even consider tying for that, especially with a horse who has a history of pulling.
I tried holding the lead rope while someone else tacked him up and he pulled back and pulled the rope out of my hands. In a rather violent ordeal. However if I just take off the lead rope and fill up a bowl of feed he will stand in the same spot I tie him, and be completely relaxed while I tack up.
DreamerR is offline  
post #113 of 119 Old 05-09-2019, 07:32 AM
Foal
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 21
• Horses: 0
Maybe this has been suggested and I missed it but have you tried a short round pen session on lunge session before you tie/groom/tacking up?

I had the same situation with my mare. She pawed the ground and did some back leg kicks, though not to the same energy degree as yourhorse.

I found a quick round pen session or lunging before tying/groomingand tacking her up helped a great deal. I would switch them up so she never knew which to expect.

One round pen, next time lunge, next time lunge, next timeround pen and then lunge. Rinse and repeat!

This helped her get rid of some of her nervous energy andshe was able to stand calmly for the most part. I have been doing this for several months and it is paying off. Now I can groom/tack her without the sessionsbut I still do it about every two or three rides just for good measure.

Also, Have you triedjust grooming without riding? Some horses do anticipate and if the ride is what they want then they will dance and carryon to get to what they want. Changing the routine can help. Lunge, groom andwalk around one day, no riding. Roundpen, groom/tack the next time. Roundpen, groom and walking or do a lungesession with no ride. Again, rinse andrepeat, changing up each time.

Just the change may distract him enough that he is not surewhat is going to happen so he learns to be patient and find out.

Also, as many others have suggested, tie to a patience poleor high, large tree limb. I am sure if you search the internet/you tube you will find many videos on how to do thissafely. If you are not sure, you can link the video to a post here and ask ifthis looks correct before actually doing it.
nohiogal is offline  
post #114 of 119 Old 05-09-2019, 08:34 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 7,353
• Horses: 0
You may need to have him tested for EPM.....that causes that over reactive state, because the Protozoa are causing the pain in the spinal cord, and interrupting the nerves. (Way over simplified explanation...)

I don't break horses, I FIX them!
greentree is offline  
post #115 of 119 Old 05-09-2019, 10:17 AM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,178
• Horses: 1
So just wanna summarise please correct me if I'm wrong @DreamerR :

- he used to stand tied nicely with an old owner/rider, an 8yo girl while bathing him etc

- he will stand and allow you to tack him up as long as he is untied and preoccupied (problem with using incentives its harder to know if the food outweighs whatever is troubling him or if he's just taught you to feed him when tacked up among other things)

- if he is tied or held by a person he will refuse to be tacked up and react violently

- he especially hates being tied near/in the barn both unsaddled and when being tacked up, reacting violently

- and just to be 100% sure, there are no issues in mounting him or riding him that you are aware of? Be it any behaviour.. napping, refusing etc
Kalraii is offline  
post #116 of 119 Old 05-09-2019, 10:25 AM
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: CT USA an English transplant
Posts: 32,676
• Horses: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie View Post
So @jaydee it seems to me you're basing your assumption about the doggers on an assumption about not being able to sell the horse because there is something wrong with him that we have no idea about, because you assume no one would give away a horse you guess is 'like that'.

That seems pretty sturdy reasoning, to put the fear of death into the poor girl who is overhorsed, in danger because of this(think we all agree not horses fault), but couldn't possibly consider rehoming him because it's 'naive' of anyone to believe he wont end up anywhere but the doggers in Mexico.
I honestly don't really know what you're trying to say.
All we know about this horse is what slightly muddled information we're being given - the horse appears to be erratic and inconsistent in his behavior which is the worst type of behavior to deal with.
She now wonders if he does it when he's frightened of things but this is a horse that's been shown all over their State at a decent level so random stuff around the barn shouldn't cause these meltdowns.
If I had been selling this horse when I was doing that as a business he's one that I would have bet good money on bouncing back to me after a few weeks.
I will repeat - a horse that's been showing and winning regularly does not get given away for no good reason.


I am not putting the fear of death into this OP and I have not said that she shouldn't sell him - I have said that she would find him very difficult to sell unless she lies about his problem or doesn't mention it.
She could try and give him away and be totally up front about what he does.
I actually think she should let him go - he should be returned to the original owner IMO. As things stand at present she isn't safe around him and he isn't safe around here. A nervous horse and a nervous handler is a bad combination.


My 'naive' comment has nothing at all to do with her not letting this horse go. Its about being realistic in what's going to happen to him afterwards.
I'm sorry, but I have no time at all for people who think that their problem horse is going to always end up in a wonderful loving home when they sell it. You can't even guarantee that with a horse that's relatively problem free.
I would rather be honest and say that than tell this teenager that their horse will go to a great home if they let it go only to have her come back here in a few months time to say that it was sold into a kill pen and how heartbroken she is and how misled she was.


At this point I think I'd be looking into @greentree 's suggestion to test for EPM but would also look into other neurological causes including Lyme Disease and brain tumors

Just winging it is not a plan

Last edited by horselovinguy; 05-10-2019 at 05:11 PM.
jaydee is offline  
post #117 of 119 Old 05-09-2019, 01:34 PM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,115
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerR View Post
I tried holding the lead rope while someone else tacked him up and he pulled back and pulled the rope out of my hands. In a rather violent ordeal.
So, if he does try to pull back while he's being held... just go with him. Maintain a steady pressure on the line, but follow him backwards. He can back up all day and not get anywhere. Eventually he'll stop, and when he does, IMMEDIATELY give him slack in the line. Then keep doing what you were doing. Repeat as necessary.

This does a few things.

a) He doesn't feel trapped
b) Pressure is maintained on the lead, so he doesn't actually get a release
c) He gets rewarded with a release on the line when he stops moving his feet
SteadyOn is offline  
post #118 of 119 Old 05-09-2019, 06:39 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 19,652
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee View Post
I am not putting the fear of death into this OP and I have not said that she shouldn't sell him - I have said that she would find him very difficult to sell unless she lies about his problem or doesn't mention it.
I am just trying to understand what you meant, as i know you to be a very reasonable person, but what you said sounded very irrational and also rude towards anyone that suggested rehoming.

With so little - & muddled - info from the OP on this horse especially, IMO it is just not at all reasonable to assume the horse is unsaleable and would end up at the knackers. Or tell people they're naive to suggest it. That is about the size of it.

In saying something like 'anyone who would sell the horse was 'naive' if they didn't think the horse wouldn't end up in Mexico'! THAT is effectively telling her don't sell & expect the horse to be killed if you do. THAT is what I meant was 'the fear of death'.
Quote:
My 'naive' comment has nothing at all to do with her not letting this horse go. Its about being realistic in what's going to happen to him afterwards.
Your naive comment sounded like it was EXACTLY to do with letting the horse go. And while yes, I agree it would be very naive to believe your kill pen scenario never happened or couldn't, it is just irrational & unrealistic to say 'it will happen'.

You can be careful about who you choose to give animals to for eg, not just palm them off on anyone. I had my rescue boy up for about 8 months before I found a good, appropriate home for him. And for his sake I wouldnt have lied about him either.

Quote:
I actually think she should let him go - he should be returned to the original owner IMO.
Despite that you believe he will end up deaded??

Quote:
would also look into other neurological causes including Lyme Disease and brain tumors
I'm sorry, you've lost me there. Am I missing something big that would cause you to think that?? And of course, IF the horse had a major neurological issue or such, i can understand you thinking he may be better off deaded...
PoptartShop likes this.

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg

Last edited by horselovinguy; 05-10-2019 at 05:12 PM.
loosie is offline  
post #119 of 119 Old 05-10-2019, 03:43 PM
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: CT USA an English transplant
Posts: 32,676
• Horses: 3
I don't know how to make my point any clearer.
The OP's reply to posts suggesting that she sell the horse was that she won't because she knows that he's safe and cared for where he is - implying that she doesn't know for certain if he'd be safe and cared for if she sold him.
I can't argue with that because statistically, based on whatever numbers you believe, she's correct.
There are plenty of young healthy horses without problems that are shipped off the Mexico or Canada for slaughter so that doesn't give a lot of hope for a young healthy looking horse that's got a problem
It would be na´ve of me to believe that this horse has got a strong chance of going to a great forever home because I know from experience that he hasn't.
It would be wrong of me to lie to her and try to convince her otherwise.


If others actually do believe that this horse has more than a 30% chance of ending up in that great forever home then they can believe that all they want but it doesn't make it a fact.
Maybe things are different in Australia, its certainly a lot harder to get horses slaughtered in the UK due to passporting rules and restrictions but in the US those restrictions don't exist.


I'm not against her selling the horse as long as its sold in total honesty but I'm not going to sugar coat anything and tell her that the horse will get a good home because chances are it won't stay wherever she sells it if its problems don't go away.
There are two reasons why I say he should be sent back:
a. If the previous owner knew he had issues when they let him go then they passed him on dishonestly to an inexperienced teenager so they should have him back and take responsibility for the horse. If he really isn't 'fixable' then he's better of euthanized.
b. If he was genuinely OK with them then he would be better off back there until he can be found a more suitable home.
She actually seems to be mature enough to know that the odds of him going to a great forever home are slim, which is why she's reluctant to let him go. She's the one that has to deal with it if he doesn't, not me, not members of this forum.
She's also mature enough to know that she isn't safe around him when he's having these 'reactions'.


QUOTE:
would also look into other neurological causes including Lyme Disease and brain tumors
I'm sorry, you've lost me there. Am I missing something big that would cause you to think that?? And of course, IF the horse had a major neurological issue or such, i can understand you thinking he may be better off deadedů END QUOTE


If a horse starts to behave in a way that's out of character then health related reasons should always be the first to be explored.
According to the OP this horse was not a problem in his previous home and was travelling around to shows, doing well even under a very young rider. He certainly looks fine on the one video she put up of him. She says that even now he rides nicely so really his current behavior would class as being out of character if the previous owners were honest.
If we are to believe those facts then we have to try to understand why he's now behaving irrationally.
It would appear that:
It isn't being tied that bothers him because he does much the same thing when held by someone.
What seems to bother him is what's being done to him when he's tied that causes him to have an anxiety/panic attack and lose self control
He could be tied to a tree with a non-breakaway system but as @mmshiro pointed out - tying someone up in a graveyard won't cure them of being afraid of graveyards.
I thought he might be terribly buddy sour but apparently he is the same when still close to his buddy.


His anxiety seems to start when he's being groomed or being tacked up. That's not normal in a horse that was shown a lot unless it was something they dealt with in some way, though the previous owners say he was not like this when they had him.
If that's true then the obvious next line of thinking must be why is he suddenly so afraid of being groomed/touched?
Horses with Lyme Disease can become incredibly over sensitive to being touched and will go from being super normal to trying to avoid contact to lashing out in quite a short space of time if they develop that symptom.
Horse that are very deficient in Vit E can do the same.
Horses in pain somewhere in their body can over react to touch and being saddled
Horse with brain tumors behave irrationally - worst case scenario I know, but I've had two experiences of brain tumors in horses and both started out quite similar to the way this horse is behaving.
updownrider and mmshiro like this.

Just winging it is not a plan
jaydee is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Evasion of contact by pulling neck & head back & up & hollowing back when out hacking x Heidi x Horse Riding & Horse Activity 5 01-30-2012 10:26 AM
Pulling Back petitepyromaniac Horse Training 20 03-02-2011 12:36 AM
Pulling back at the hitching post wheeler4x4 Horse Grooming 4 12-22-2010 10:55 PM
Pulling back and passing out jdanny21 Horse Training 8 06-30-2010 01:15 PM
Pulling Back AQHA Horse Training 10 03-19-2010 12:18 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome