Horse rearing over roundpen - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 20 Old 03-02-2018, 12:25 AM
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Are you sure his behavior is aggression vs confusion? Perhaps you are applying too much pressure.

My "roundpen" is nothing more than a single rail fence. I sometimes use it as a drylot. I've never had a horse break out or attempt to break out during lunging or groundwork sessions. My one mare has figured out how to open the gate, and she lets herself out, but that is very deliberate.

When I lunge my horses, i want relaxation and forward movement. I don't push for a gallop. Some cantering is okay, sometimes i get a gallop with a more nervous horse, but that means I need to reduce the pressure. More is less in this case. With youngsters, i like to start with walking a circle. A couple circles each way, that's all for the first session. Next session we trot a few circles, if they do well at a walk.

If the horse is dominant, i correct this on the lead. Backing, circling, and yielding the hindquarters can all be done in hand. For a more difficult case, carry a stick if you need one. You can establish yourself as herd boss without ever setting foot in a roundpen.

Carry a whip with you, ask him to yield away from you before he gets dinner. Or make him wait for dinner. If he is the type to charge, carry a whip with a lash and stand on the other side of the fence. Make him wait for supper. When he stands quietly, let him eat.

Too many people think they need too much force. For example, i like Clinton Anderson, but i do not agree with the way he runs his horses. Part of it is showmanship, but i can get the same results with less effort. Of course, i don't need a horse to spin when changing direction. I like a calm, quiet, relaxed change of direction. I want my horse thinking, not reacting.

As for my background, I'm used to working with hotter breeds- your Arabians, thoroughbreds, and pasos. I do enjoy a good quarter horse, they tend to be easier to train and more forgiving.

Most horses do not try to "leave" unless they feel completely overfaced. Your goal as a trainer should be to recognize when your horse is getting overwhelmed, and know when to back off or reduce the pressure.

I did have one horse try to leave his stall in the way you described. He reared up, stuck his feet between the boards, pulled his feet back in, then came down. (I did add more boards so there weren't any accidents). I believe knightrider on here has a mare who did the same thing in the horse trailer. The first horse had severe seperation anxiety, the second had a phobia of trailers. It is likely your horse will repeat the behavior if pushed into a panic.
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post #12 of 20 Old 03-02-2018, 12:29 AM
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Or he will repeat the behavior to rejoin his herd.
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post #13 of 20 Old 03-02-2018, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena4285 View Post
I feel as though a horse being free is much safer when working. If a horse runs around crazily itís not going to effect me as long as he is at a safe distance. I can handle a rope quite well but feel like I should only have to focus on the horse if he is acting dangerously. Iíve personally had horse kick and play around on a lunge line and get their foot over. That creates a dangerous situation for both of us. Being free also allows a horse to make the mistake (a mistake to me personally with my training) of turning to the outside. I think itís important that a horse makes mistakes so he can truly understand the differences of what Iím asking. They can also learn that being corrected does not need to cause a breakdown and teaches them to think about their actions. Of course this is how Iíve always trained and it may not work for everyone but it works for me.
No, I think most trainers work that way. But, I guess the things I'm saying, and not saying very well, is to give the horse some time to find the 'easy' way. you know how they say make the wrong thing difficult and the right thing easy. ? It doesn't mean make the wrong thing practically unbearable. putting the horse between a rock and a hard place that's TOO hard will make them stop 'searching' for the right answer and either FLEE or FIGHT. The best training allows them some room to SEARCH for a different way. And, they may need a little bit of time to do that. So many people RUSH the horse in the turns. They don't allow the horse to think a bit, set himself up and make the turn on his own, instead , they are basically pushing the horse all the way through.

Once the horse has decided to turn, let him carry out that thought on his own, so it feels like HE made that decision. It's getting him to be engaged in each turn or change, instead of him feeling SO bad inside that pen that his whole being is focused on getting out of it!
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post #14 of 20 Old 03-02-2018, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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I put him in the round pen today and just turned him loose to get comfortable while i went about doing some things near by. He sniffed around, walked one circle and reared at the gate. Heís not buddy sour at all and could not careless about getting back to his pasture while being led around and such. He didnít seemed worried or panicked in any way. It was very deliberate like he just didnít feel like being in there.
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post #15 of 20 Old 03-03-2018, 02:31 PM
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I think you may have pushed him too much at first and made him uncomfortable and now he associates the pen with that feeling.
I've had babies that same age do the same thing. One in particular would always do that when I lounged him. He even did it when I put him in the pen alone like you are describing. Eventually a friend of mine bought him and had him broke. I got to ride him a few times and he would stomp his feel when I asked him to walk forward. I think the horse and I just didn't click. Out of the 20 youngsters I'd started he was the only one who was like that with me.
He went to a different trainer as a newly broke horse with less than 20 rides when I stopped working with babies and she loves him and said he is a doll. I'm happy for them because I didn't really like him, and I'm glad he found someone who does. She works at an extremely slow pace with him and he seems to like it, it just costs the owner a lot more in training fees because he's been there for 4 months and is just finally doing walking and trotting, but that's just him... very slow.
Your horse might feel similarly.
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post #16 of 20 Old 03-03-2018, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena4285 View Post
I put him in the round pen today and just turned him loose to get comfortable while i went about doing some things near by. He sniffed around, walked one circle and reared at the gate. Heís not buddy sour at all and could not careless about getting back to his pasture while being led around and such. He didnít seemed worried or panicked in any way. It was very deliberate like he just didnít feel like being in there.

My guess, then, is that he will rear under saddle, too, when he is feeling emotionally upset.
that means, to me, that you, or a more experienced trainer, should work with him on a lunge line, or better, a very long leadline to a rope halter, and make sure that he becomes focused on you, and finds that rearing is not an answer.
I know you said he would strike when you tried to back him. To me that means working even smaller, more basic things on a line. Such as 'bend this way, now bend that way. step to your right, step to your left. step forward, stop, now back one step, now right, left, etc. Doing this, interspersed with leading off and having him lead well (not dragging, nor coming past you) will soften him up and get him more focussed on you s that backing up may come easier.
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post #17 of 20 Old 03-03-2018, 07:38 PM
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Lena4285. IMO, you're asking the wrong question. It isn't "how?," as in "how can I prevent this?" Rather the question should be "why?" as in "why is this happening?" Keep asking "why?"
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post #18 of 20 Old 03-04-2018, 03:06 AM
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I absolutely fail to see how a horse on a lunge line is more of a risk than one that is loose. With a line you have control of the head, you can pull the head towards you which means that the heels are away from you.

As for a horse getting a foot over the line, that can happen somwhat? Just keep a hold of it until they stop and then sort it out.

With young horses I am breaking when it comes to long reiningnthem I will do all sorts of things with both lines, I will deliberately bring the far line over their back and under the saddle or under their belly, between their back legs or front legs, just so they get use to all sorts of things.

It sounds to me that you were putting to much pressure on this horse, he didn't know what was wanted, this human who had always been a 'friend' feeding him and leaving him alone suddenly turns into Old Nick chasing him around in a tight circle. The fact he was calm when in they're alone backs this up.
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post #19 of 20 Old 03-04-2018, 06:03 AM
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Hi, meant to reply to this when there was only Tiny's reply there, but got waylaid. Going to first reply to your original without reading further...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena4285 View Post
I have recently started working with a two year old gelding. Heís normally a sweetheart but now that Iíve began working him heís showed some aggression while lunging and backing. When he began attempting to kick and charge a little I decided it was time to do some roundpenning.
More detail needed. A 'sweetheart' doesn't just turn nasty without reason & usually it is not from a domineering attitude but due to confusion/fear that they become reactive... & then find this behaviour works for them. Of course, perhaps he was always 'dominant' over you, but you didn't realise, so when you started telling him to do things he didn't want to, he had to 'remind' you who's boss. I would NOT advise lunging a horse like this, particularly not loose in a pen. I'd start at the basics first at least.

Quote:
As you know, I will have to put quite a bit of pressure on him when he acts aggressively so Iím afraid he would rear and flip over the panel if he was really running. Is there any way I can discourage this?
Yes. Not put that much pressure on him that he feels the need to escape. That is ONE reason why I disagree with aggressive 'round penning'. If he's 'defensively aggressive', he is doing it in fear, so putting more pressure on him will only make things so much worse. If you disagree with this & feel the need to just push him harder, you need to ensure your round pen is safe, solid & high enough that he cannot jump out, or hurt himself trying.
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post #20 of 20 Old 03-04-2018, 06:25 AM
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OK, now read the thread... As little further info about him & his training, next questions is, what prior training have you done with him that made you think he was up to lunging yet? I teach lunging as an extension of leading/driving up close. Which comes after teaching them to yield basically in all ways.
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