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Jumping horses too young.

9K views 41 replies 15 participants last post by  loosie 
#1 ·
Hey everyone, I posted a thread asking what classes I should enter my young horse in, not because I'm a newbie and inexperienced rider, I asked because I wanted different opinions. I already had her classes picked out, but I was unsure about the age limits, show experience, and crossovers, etc. Yes, I have a 3-year-old ottb that is jumping. POLES AND CROSS RAILS, every other week. I am not jumping my horse 2' or 2'6, I am trotting her over 8 inches. She is literally going right into the canter when I get on her because she wants to work. I would not be working her over "jumps" if I knew she wasn't ready.

I have seen many people jump 3 - 4-year-old horses 3'6 and not have long term injuries, I'm not saying it is okay in any way shape or form, but they did not get hurt, and they did it occasionally, and the horse wanted too. Some horses love to work, get ridden and jump and have fun, some don't. But if you know your horse and your horses' limits, then I don't see a problem as long as the horse or rider will not get injured.

So this was all to ask you guys what you think, and if I am disagree with my training methods or agree on some level. Thank you.
 
#2 ·
Growth plates are not closed until the horse is 5 years old, placing them under the stress of impact of jumping is foolhardy. Top Warmblood trainers don't start them until they are 5 and don't usually jump until 6 or 7. This is my mode of operation, my horses are too valuable to me to risk immediate injury or cumulative injuries further on.
 
#9 ·
Top Warmblood trainers don't start them until they are 5 and don't usually jump until 6 or 7. This is my mode of operation, my horses are too valuable to me to risk immediate injury or cumulative injuries further on.
Not true in Europe at all.

Top breeders/trainers will, with jump bred foals, try them loose over small fences whilst foals. Dittomas yearlings and 2 yr olds. By 3 they are backed and being ridden and shown over a fence with a rider.

At 4 they are competing in novice classes.

In the U.K. We have a series called Foxhunter this is for 4 yr old+ horses. Max height is 2 fences at 4'. This leads to a Regional Fina and then the Final at Horse of the Year Show in October. A very prestigious class to win. To qualify horses must not have won more than a certain amount.

What happens is that riders compete in here classes with four yr old horses, they do not compete in the Regionals. They wait until that year's qualifiers are finished in September, then qualify as soon as they can after that date to qualify for the followimg season. By the time the followimg season starts the horse is already competing in bigger classes. By the time the Regionals come around the horse is a long five yr old or maybe six, and already an Open Class show jumper.

Agreed that the growth plates are not closed but what causes the problem is what sort of surface the horse is jumping on,

Jump racehorses start at three over hurdles and fences. Majority of them continue to remain sound through their lives.
 
#3 ·
Which I understand that, but when you are only jumping them 8 - 12 jumps that they literally walk over every other week, is it really that bad? My vet cleared me and the farrier cleared me. I have had my previous trainer and her old owner look at her and give her the ok. Again, I am not jumping her anything above 10 inches. The cross rails at the show are literally 6 - 8 inches. Honestly, just poles like an X. The middle is a few inches off the ground at that.
 
#5 ·
I don't have a problem with responsibility jumping 3yr olds. I used crossrails to reinforce the canter on a previous horse of mine. He liked to jump so it taught him something and kept him interested. Horses who are naturally talented will have an easier time than those who are not and it'll be harder on their bodies.

Simple elements, no tight turns or roll backs, not all the time. They do more damage to themselves bouncing around with their friends. Controlled exercise is good for growing bones as it builds bone density.

You may find some rule books have age restrictions on jumping classes. Otherwise they are providing incentive for people to overwork and overjump young horses.
 
#6 ·
Its impact on the structure, it don't take much especially when you add the rider, the gear and the course. Free jumping, meaning no rider, the horse choses his own frame and direction. I really suggest you find different equine professionals to help you further your & your horses' jumping careers. You have the desire & the drive, now you need proper direction.
 
#7 ·
My apologies if you did not understand. I do not doing full courses with her. I have 10 ground poles set up around the arena and 2 of them are raised. One is a 4 inch pole, and the other is a 8 inch cross rails. I do mostly the raised pole and a couple times the cross rails, after every set of poles, she walks. Thank you for your feedback, I greatly appreciate it.
 
#10 ·
3 is too young for anything more than ground poles. You can introduce raised poles and crosses again when your horse is 4. Nothing over 2' until 5, and then progress as the horse is ready. My 8 year old is confidently jumping up to 3'6 because I took it slow and respected her physical maturity as well as her balance in the canter - without a developed canter you should absolutely not jump.
 
#13 ·
Majority of shows in the UK (I cannot think of any that aren't) all ridden horses have to be 4 years old. Doesn't matter if it is dressage/SJ/showing or eventing. Therefore most are left to be backed until they are three.

In e UK there are also factors such as the going taken into consideration that a softer landing has to be provided.

From what I have seem a lot of shows in the US are held on sand arenas, you do not get that here and pure sand is very 'dead' going thus making more stress on joints.

British Show Jumping grades are,

Ponies 14.2 and under
JD. 0 - £99
JC £99 - £699
JA. Over £700

Horses
C 0 - £999
B £1,000 - £2,000
A over £2000

Serious show jumpers are Grade A by 8 years. Doesn't mean they are jumping big classes but are competing in smaller opens.

Majority go on to compete seriously well into their teens.
 
#14 ·
Majority of shows in the UK (I cannot think of any that aren't) all ridden horses have to be 4 years old. Doesn't matter if it is dressage/SJ/showing or eventing. Therefore most are left to be backed until they are three.

In e UK there are also factors such as the going taken into consideration that a softer landing has to be provided.

From what I have seem a lot of shows in the US are held on sand arenas, you do not get that here and pure sand is very 'dead' going thus making more stress on joints.
Bolded for the OP to (re) read. Shows in Canada are also mostly held on sand, with the exception of eventing.
 
#17 ·
This is the article you linked too and I'm putting these quotes from it because I think you're using that article to justify what you want to do

https://practicalhorsemanmag.com/training/start-young-horse-fences-23682

This is what the author says at the start
QUOTE
How old your horse is when you start her over fences is a matter of personal preference. Some trainers do it at age 3; others wait until age 4 or even later.

But this is what he says later on and this is what he actually thinks about starting horses young
QUOTE
I don’t even start my young horses under saddle until they are 4-year-olds.

While I don't see a big problem in starting a well developed horse, that's well into its fourth year, over ground poles and a few small cross poles as part of their schooling program, the temptation to not leave it at that can be too great for some riders.

I honestly can't see the point.

When you look at so many young horses jumping - and lots of older ones too - the glaringly obvious thing that they lack in their training is a real grasp of the basics which you get from spending more time at low level dressage than worrying about getting into the jumping.

Its like they learnt to run before they could walk properly
 
#18 ·
I agree with Jaydee, it is hard with a young talented horse to not over do the jumping.

I would have a 1' rail across paddock gateways which the brood mares would lead heir foals over. I have also had foals popping over fallen trees of their own accord. One youngster I had was impossible to keep in his correct field and would think nothing of popping 4' rails back and forth for the fun of it.
 
#20 ·
He wasn't a foal but a two yr old.
He jumped out one day over the rails into a steep sided crevasse, I went back to get a hammer to knock the rails out so he could get back, by the time I returned he was with his peers waiting at the gate. Jumping out of those rails from the steep sides would have been at least 5'.
 
#21 ·
My not quite year old will jump anything she can get her head over. She started by jumping limbs and such and progressed to the outdoor dining table and small bbq pit. She gets a charge out of it. But that is her jumping on her own with no encouragement. I have set up tiny cross rails just to see what she would do and she creates her own course. She won't be backed until she is 4 or jumped with a rider until later than that.

My favorite draft mare was the same and by 2 would flatfooted a 5ft fence.

There is a big difference in them choosing and you schooling.

You say that she is OTTB that was used on the track not to race but to be paired with those in training to run against. She was likely started early and used hard. That would be two strikes in my book. My question would be why at 3 was she sold? I personally would have put her out to pasture to be horse for a while. That would if I would have even made such a purchase. I think the only one I'd trust and buy from would be family.

You can find something to support just about anything you want to validate just about any choice you make. If your vets, carriers and those trainers around you think you're fine moving forward I doubt we will sway you with any arguement we come up with or example provided.
 
#22 ·
Sorry it sent before done. Those I know that have made it to upper levels and brought on their own horses did so with guidance and didn't jump their youngsters until 5 or 6. They spent at least two years bringing them along getting the basics down and building up to jumping so they were both physically and mentally ready to handle the stress. They are still showing those well in their teens and bringing on new youngsters.
 
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#24 ·
I am no expert but I really cannot see how a cavalletti once a week would do harm unless it’s a really heavy rider - who would damage regardless of jumping. It’s just a slightly larger canter stride. In nature they have to jump anything their mum jumps or they are toast. Compared to human children, who also don’t close their growth plates for a long time - we don’t have any restrictions on our kids and I am going to hazard a guess that most of human jumping is done before they close. You don’t see all that many 25 year olds jumping all over the place.
 
#36 ·
Compared to human children, who also don’t close their growth plates for a long time - we don’t have any restrictions on our kids and I am going to hazard a guess that most of human jumping is done before they close. You don’t see all that many 25 year olds jumping all over the place.
I don't think kids jumping, of their own volition is comparable really to a horse doing so *carrying a rider.* I don't think it is the jumping that is THE problem. It is serious high impact stuff, & continual strain that seems most likely to cause issue. Eg. just doing gymnastics is not bad for kids, but doing stressful stuff for long periods or high levels when young tends to cause body issues, which leaves gymnasts 'washed up' by their 20's. Likewise I don't think a child giving another (appropriately sized) child a piggy back ride, or carrying something heavy, or for that matter, a horse carrying an (appropriately sized) human on it's back before maturity for short periods is necessarily harmful, but doing it for long periods or trying to perform 'athletically' while doing so is likely to do damage.
 
#25 ·
We start ours LIGHTLY under saddle at 3 yrs old. With light riding. Light meaning like once a week. Then they get a year off to be a horse, and at 4 1/2 we bring them back in and start riding. Again nothing hard just a couple times a week for 30 mins. They don't start jump training until 5/6. Then their training is slow as I dont want to over face them. They're shown in dressage as well. I prefer to take it slow with babies. I know people that jump on them at 3 and start showing at 4 and I just cringe because I know the issues they could run into as they get older. But it comes down to person preference I guess.
 
#26 ·
Not that anything I say here will matter. Poor racing industry TB start out life with the deck staked against them, but then so do a lot of horses.

A horse should not be ridden before reaching 60 months of age. I say 60 months, because the Jockey Club, which controls TB flat track racing, sets a TB age based on a birth day or 1 Jan (regardless of when it was actually born).

Now for the sad part. You don't have to believer any of this (many stick their heads in the sand and don't), but equine medical science will back this up.
All things being equal (large breeds and stallions can take a bit longer) the joints in a horse's legs do not finish developing (reach maturity to deal with working demands) until 36 months (3 years). The back joints finish next to last and they take 60 months (5 years). The very base of the neck is the last joint to fully mature, but that won't impact riding, just don't put much stress on it.

You never wonder why so many TB in the racing industry end up lame or have to be put down? They are not physically ready. Just because many manage doesn't mean they were ready. So when you're riding or jumping or putting working demands on them (what they do at play is normal development activities, not working demands under load) while still under the age when they finish developing you are not doing them any favors and are increasing the odds of creating physical problems that can plague them for life. Thousands of OTTBs demonstrate this every year (and the racing industry dumps about 5,000 OTTB's on the market every year).

Not my horses, so it's not my problem. Just think people should be aware that just because it's been done traditionally doesn't mean it right (or that it was "always" done traditionally....TB used to only be raced when they were older...back when it was truly the sport of kings because only the wealthy could afford to upkeep a horse just for racing and bragging rights).

Last two horses I was asked to train I refused, but because they wanted them ready to ride and both were under 48 months old. Ground work it find. Getting them use to being saddled is find. I'll even get them use to being mounted (not ridden) at about 54 months, but riding starts are 60 months or later....or I refuse the work.

Not my horse, not my problem, but I will not be party to doing things before they have finished developing to be able to properly handle it.
 
#27 ·
Now for the sad part. You don't have to believer any of this (many stick their heads in the sand and don't), but equine medical science will back this up.
All things being equal (large breeds and stallions can take a bit longer) the joints in a horse's legs do not finish developing (reach maturity to deal with working demands) until 36 months (3 years). The back joints finish next to last and they take 60 months (5 years). The very base of the neck is the last joint to fully mature, but that won't impact riding, just don't put much stress on it.
Wolff's Law - which applies to all mammals - directly disagrees with the conclusion that an animal should not be worked before it's completely physically mature. Indeed, it's been proven by several studies over the years that light work at a younger age is beneficial to overall, long term bone and joint health.

I want to see numbers re: back health and in particular kissing spine rates in horses started younger than 5 compared to horses started older than 5, but very, very few horses are left to sit until they're 5 entire years old before anyone sits on them.

That being said, there is a line. Light work is beneficial. Too much is too much. And not enough study has been done in regards to finding exactly where the line lies - though what has been done indicates that any number would be largely arbitrary, as it appears to vary wildly between individuals.

Personally my approach is to minimise circles in heavy footing and avoid high impact work (so lots of long straight trots on forgiving ground but no jumping or galloping) until the horse is properly legged up regardless of age. If I went from being completely sedentary to running a race carrying even 10% of my body weight without proper conditioning, I would hurt myself, and I am 25 (fully physically mature). The same goes for horses. At the same time I see human children as young as 3 running around and climbing and jumping off things and generally doing things that I cannot, as I would injure myself. Those children generally do not grow up to have joint issues at a young age. I did, but it's genetic in my family.
 
#30 · (Edited by Moderator)
As for you wanting to "see numbers" a basic google will give you all that you need.

My compliments to Wolf's Law (he clearly did not know much about horses either, but then he never claimed to, nor did he promote working them before they had reached the development stage were nature deemed it was safest for them to be worked....he only said, basically, that work is need to strengthen and build....he didn't say when you should do it, because not all mammals are created equal).

http://www.hoofrehab.com/ArticlesPDF/Timing and Rate of skeletal maturation in Horses.pdf

The real "numbers" for you to look at are:
Short pastern – top and bottom between birth and 6 months.
Long pastern – top and bottom between 6 months and one year.
Cannon bone – top and bottom between 8 months and 1.5 years
Small bones of the knee – top and bottom of each, between 1.5 and 2.5 years
Bottom of radius-ulna – between 2 and 2.5 years
Weight-bearing portion of glenoid notch at top of radius – between 2.5 and 3 years
Humerus – top and bottom, between 3 and 3.5 years
Scapula – glenoid or bottom (weight-bearing) portion – between 3.5 and 4 years
Hindlimb – lower portions same as forelimb

Hock – this joint is “late” for as low down as it is; growth plates on the tibial and fibular tarsals don’t fuse until the animal is four (so the hocks are a known “weak point” – even the 18th-century literature warns against driving young horses in plow or other deep or sticky footing, or jumping them up into a heavy load, for danger of spraining their hocks). Tibia – top and bottom, between 3 and 3.5 years Femur – bottom, between 3 and 3.5 years; neck, between 2.5 and 3 years; major and 3rd trochanters, between 2.5 and 3 years Pelvis – growth plates on the points of hip, peak of croup (tubera sacrale), and points of buttock (tuber ischii), between 3 and 4 years.

And what do you think is last? The vertebral column, of course. A normal horse has 32 vertebrae between the back of the skull and the root of the dock, and there are several growth plates on each one, the most important of which is the one capping the centrum. These do not fuse until the horse is at least 5 ½ years old (and this figure applies to a small-sized, scrubby, range-raised mare. The taller your horse and the longer its neck, the later the last fusions will occur. And for a male – is this a surprise? – you add six months. So, for example, a 17-hand Thoroughbred or Saddlebred or Warmblood gelding may not be fully mature until his 8th year – something that owners of such individuals have often told me that they “suspected”).
 
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#31 ·
While I just grabbed something google gave me to get "the numbers" LOL, I went back and actually read the article. It's pretty good. If you want a pretty objective and reasonably accurate assessment on that information it's well worth reading and "might" help some people understand why "my horses is fine and I was riding him at 2", even though it might not be fine (or he might be ok), but you really should have waited regardless. Sometimes you might dodge a bullet, but not usually.

http://www.hoofrehab.com/ArticlesPDF/Timing and Rate of skeletal maturation in Horses.pdf
 
#39 ·
I don't think the closure rate of the growth plates is controversial to anyone. The actual controversy is regarding if early controlled exercise of horses has a detrimental effect on the growth plates or other structures.

This meta studies covers a lot of it. I found more studied, but they are basically all referenced in here. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2100207/

In summary, for bones, more intense exercise (primarily track/treadmill in the studies) is associated with stronger bone that is more resistant to fracture, however too much density eventually increases the risk of micro-fractures and excess strain on adjacent structures.

Tendon's were a little harder to parse. Appears that there is a larger difference between the effects on no exercise vs exercise, compared to intense exercise vs moderate exercise.

Cartilage shows a clearer relationship between the effects if exercise and the structure of the cartilage. Exercises groups had a notable increase in cartilage non-pathological thickness compared to the non-exercised. As with bone density, too much intense exercise did show signs of pathology, such as cracking of the calcified cartilage, though that structure is able to repair and remodel in response to loads.

Tendons and bones have a short window where their development can be modulated and improved, and taking advantage of this will help set them up for future athletics. Growth plate injuries were not observed.

My #1 take away from this is never stall your growing horses. Otherwise, additional exercise beyond pasture turnout is beneficial during the growth phase, provided the intensity isn't high. These studies didn't generally cover torsion or shearing forces, but I think it's a given that activities with a high occurrence of those forces are ill advised. It's also good to remember that not everyone's pasture turnout is the same and a horse can still be relatively sedentary despite living outside.


That article plainly states you are not going to damage growth plates by starting young horses. Their concerns seem to mainly be around the growth plates in the spine. There isn't much I could find specifically on horses, but perpendicular forces against the ephyisal plates in long bones are generally associated with significant shearing or torsion trauma; not really a concern in the spine as it's a relatively inflexible structure through the thoracic.

Back strength is a valid concern in young horses, but any decent trainer already knows that and takes it into consideration in how they sit, how long they ride, ect. Weak backs aren't limited to young horses.


Warmbloods are one of the groups most often diagnosed with kissing spines, yet they are also the group that is generally started later. KS likely has a stronger conformation and quality of ridden work factor than developmental.
 
#33 · (Edited by Moderator)
This is the outcome of you trying to dispute equine medical facts. To Whit:

"Wolff's Law - which applies to all mammals - directly disagrees with the conclusion that an animal should not be worked before it's completely physically mature. Indeed, it's been proven by several studies over the years that light work at a younger age is beneficial to overall, long term bone and joint health.

I want to see numbers re: back health and in particular kissing spine rates in horses started younger than 5 compared to horses started older than 5, but very, very few horses are left to sit until they're 5 entire years old before anyone sits on them."

Wolf's Law does not dispute it, but I've already pointed that out and provide the "numbers".

I don't care what people do. I do care about them being mislead by erroneous information that can harm their animal(s). If they choose to do so after know that facts then I don't care, because they can't blame ignorance of the facts.

So do what you like. Ride your horse at 6 months for all I care (after all...you think Wolf's Law will make it ok....it applies to all mammals). You can't claim ignorance of the facts, because they've been presented. What you do with them is completely up to you. So long as I provide people with the facts I'm not responsible if they fail to use them. If I tell you that drinking too much can ruin your liver I've informed you. If you choose to get drunk every night and it destroys your liver then you made the choose regardless of the information I gave you so it's not my fault of my problem. Same thing with horses. I offer information for those who want to know the facts and might benefit from them. What they do with it is not my problem. So I had to rebut your calling on a misreading of Wolf's Law to justify actions that can put a young horse at risk. But don't feel bad. The TB racing industry, every industry involving QH, and others all deal with some myths and whole lot of misleading information that causes people to believe things that aren't really accurate (in some cases outright not true). The feed industry does the same thing. The farrier industry is a living equine nightmare. European traditions have perfected a system by which we can torture our horse for a lifetime without even knowing it so we won't feel bad about it. All because people perpetuate the myths, don't become actually educated about horses (and that's not always easy if you're relying of those who truly believe in the myths they help perpetuate LOL), and in many cases just choose to belief what's easy (or convenient) over what's factual. e.g. training horses to be ridden too young, because 2 or 3 years is a lot less time to wait then 5 or more when the horse is better developed. No one is saying that you don't condition the animal and get it ready or jump on the back the first time and run a race. But everything has a time when development is right. Most people either don't know when that is (believing the myths) or if they do they simply don't want to wait that long and can use the myth as the excuse for doing things when they want vs when they should.

I'll inform. What people choose to do with it is up to them. Not my problem is they don't listen or believe (and I encourage everyone who owns a horse to take real course...at real universities....and get real, accurate, backed up and substantiated information based on real and accurate equine medical science....not something some horse industry source provides from any of the many, many industries....they have different interest that serve a different agenda than what's best for the horse)
 
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