Kicking horse - The Horse Forum
 35Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 56
• Horses: 0
Kicking horse

We were walking out to ride when My horse backed up and Tried to kick another horse while the owner was along side her horse. She put her hand up and got kicked in the elbow. She thinks my horse is dangerous and mean to have kicked out with a human standing there. I think he was just trying to establish dominance with her horse. He is such a good boy and not mean at all. I have had him for 12 years and I think he was just being a horse. She shouldnít have had her horse so close to his rear end. Am I wrong? I punished him immediately.
ealti is offline  
post #2 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 08:28 PM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: eh?
Posts: 2,615
• Horses: 2
From how you have it written, it sounds like you walked past them. In that case, 100% your fault.

Even so, a horse should not be allowed to kick another horse, human or not, while under your command. I dont care if that horse was crawling up your horses butt, it is never ok. You should have headed off the action before it even got to backing up. So still largely your fault.
They can establish dominance all they want when loose in a field, not when working.
ApuetsoT is online now  
post #3 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 09:38 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 20,141
• Horses: 0
Quote:
She shouldnít have had her horse so close to his rear end.
From the sound of that bit, I was assuming the opposite to Apuetsot & thought she came up behind your horse too close. In which case, I'd see it as more her fault. And if she thinks it's 'mean to have kicked out with a human standing there' That sounds a bit... unrealistic. Regardless of what behaviour we ask for & expect, horses WILL be horses, so it always pays to have safety in mind. And if your horse is known for being 'testy' about other horses coming too close, you should put a red ribbon on his tail, to warn people.

That said, I do also agree fully that it's important to do all you can to prevent, and teach your horse not to kick or otherwise get stroppy when he's in hand/ridden - Just because it's natural 'horse', doesn't mean it's safe or appropriate for him to do when 'working'.

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
loosie is offline  
post #4 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 11:06 PM
Foal
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 224
• Horses: 0
When working in a 'public space', there are general rules of conduct. One is 'whether you do or do not know a horse well, do not walk yourself or your horse too close behind another horse." On the other hand, you discovered a hole in your horse's behavior skills. It is very unfortunate that this occurred in a negative way and ended with another person getting kicked. But now you know that you need to work on your horse's respect skills.

If you have a mustang training flag, you can use that in conjunction with these tactics and see if your boy reacts in the same way. Then you know you've got something to work on. (Also be aware that I don't really approve of this video where it shows the farrier pulling the horse's hind leg up into his lap. That can be really uncomfortable and is often a source of farriers fighting horses.)


No diet, no hoof. No hoof, no horse. No horse is not an option!
Feathers7 is offline  
post #5 of 22 Old 10-23-2019, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 56
• Horses: 0
We were standing on the ring about to lead them on to the trail.
ealti is offline  
post #6 of 22 Old 10-23-2019, 12:10 AM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 56
• Horses: 0
Thank you for your replies. My horse never kicked before. It was very out of character for him. It seemed like a dominance move. I punished him immediately by smacking him with my mecate. Is there more I could do to make sure it never happens again?
ealti is offline  
post #7 of 22 Old 10-23-2019, 12:35 AM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 56
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feathers7 View Post
When working in a 'public space', there are general rules of conduct. One is 'whether you do or do not know a horse well, do not walk yourself or your horse too close behind another horse." On the other hand, you discovered a hole in your horse's behavior skills. It is very unfortunate that this occurred in a negative way and ended with another person getting kicked. But now you know that you need to work on your horse's respect skills.

If you have a mustang training flag, you can use that in conjunction with these tactics and see if your boy reacts in the same way. Then you know you've got something to work on. (Also be aware that I don't really approve of this video where it shows the farrier pulling the horse's hind leg up into his lap. That can be really uncomfortable and is often a source of farriers fighting horses.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMdP8DAjoc8
That was a great video! I love Clinton! I am going to work on this tomorrow. Donít know if it will work for this problem because he is desensitized to my training stick and flag but I will turn up the heat in backing him and disengaging his hind quarters. Iíll let you know how it goes.
ealti is offline  
post #8 of 22 Old 10-23-2019, 02:16 AM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 20,141
• Horses: 0
Ugh! That vid makes me go 'ugh!'. As do most egs of CA that I've seen. I think this is the first thing we've disagreed upon Feathers7 since you've joined - that's a pretty good innings!

What I hate about it.... from the start, showing the farrier trying to work with the horse, ugh! to the unsafe way he was standing & asking for the back foot. Ugh! Ugh! to the way the horse's leg is hoisted out to the side. Esp as the guy says the horse used to be great not so long ago & now he's acting like this - wouldn't surprise me in the least if it's because what the guy is doing is very uncomfortable for the horse.

Then there's CA's 'knee jerk' response to just about anything - push & wave ropes at & frighten & back up & run the horse in circles. Ugh! Push & frighten the horse to desensitise it. Push & frighten the horse & make it back up &/or run in circles whenever it does something 'wrong'. Ugh! Never reward the horse for 'right' answers, just quit pushing it for a sec. Ugh! Never demonstrate any consideration or respect FOR the animal or try to understand & address the underlying problem that may have led to the behaviour. Ugh! Ugh! And the 'messy' way he throws the rope at the horse & stops & starts - sometimes I'm not even sure what he's wanting, so no wonder the horse gets confused. Ugh! I just seriously dislike his whole 'break their spirit' type approach.

And he says you have to do it lots, because it would have taken years for this habit to have come about, so... Altho notice the farrier said the horse was fine not so long ago....

I would also not think this vid/advice is relevant to OP's particular situation really either, even if you agree with the tactics. Only as a way to punish the behaviour if/when it happens.

Quote:
I am going to work on this tomorrow. Donít know if it will work for this problem because he is desensitized to my training stick and flag but I will turn up the heat in backing him and disengaging his hind quarters. Iíll let you know how it goes.
What exactly of 'this' are you planning to work on tomorrow & why exactly? Not meaning to be sarcastic or such, but asking you genuinely, to analyse the why's & wherefores of what you're planning deeply, rather than just following some procedure because some 'guru' gave you a 'recipe'.

If your horse is 'desensitised' to your stick & flag, does this mean to you that you've(or someone's) done lots of this sort of stuff & he doesn't react to anything? Or that you try to get him to *respond* to the stick/flag & he won't? Or that he's desensitised to you just fluffing about with it, but is *responsive* to the tools when you ask for something? I think the first 2 instances can be problematic, but the 3rd is where you want a horse to be - not afraid or reactive, but also yielding, responsive.

What is it you are hoping to achieve by 'turning up the heat in backing him and disengaging his hind quarters'? Why do you feel the need to 'turn up the heat'(I take that to mean get aggressive about it)? Is he good or bad at this sort of thing ATM? How do you anticipate this will help him learn not to kick out at horses who get into his space?

As horses learn from *instant* consequences to their actions and don't learn well from abstracted type exercises which aren't directly related to anything, doing a bunch of abstracted, aggressive(or otherwise) backing up & circling is not going to relate to anything regarding kicking at other horses. It will associate you & your groundwork with unpleasant 'work' & punishment & confusion. If you are just going to use CA's style - or any other - of punishment to 'treat' your horse kicking out at other horses, you need to set up situations with other horses, so you can punish him *at the time of* him preparing to kick them.

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
loosie is offline  
post #9 of 22 Old 10-23-2019, 03:30 AM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SW UK
Posts: 14,977
• Horses: 0
I are with Loosie on this matter.

The early clues is 'until,a few years ago the horse was fine and then got progressively worse'. Why?

Answer is simple, the poor horse finds it hard to stand with his leg pulled out to the side and so high.

Odds are that if the farrier gut under the horse and held its foot in line with its pelvis and perhaps not so high, the reaction would not happen.

However, this wasn't the problem with OPs horse.

The moment he started to back up he should have been made to go forward. Or spun in a circle so his rear wasn't directed to the other horse.

No horse should kick at another when there are humans around. I would not have smacked him with the mecate but beaten him half a dozen time really hard.
Foxhunter is online now  
post #10 of 22 Old 10-23-2019, 04:20 AM
Yearling
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,182
• Horses: 0
I think this was a handling error on both of your parts, especially hers. These are very large, very dangerous animals. Relying on them to never behave like animals can get people killed. I donít care how well I know the horses, I never put them in a position to get tempted and I especially donít put my life at risk by standing in the kicking zone.

This happened precisely because your horse never kicked before - you all got complacent.

I see this with riding school kids. Because the riding school horses are so calm and well trained and never kick at other horses, the kids never developed self preservation instincts. I have heard instructors shout at the kids a million times when they let the horses get too close to each other but it just doesnít stick. Anxiety galore for me - I avoid the yard when kids are around. Like yourself and the other lady, it seems that the only way theyíll learn is by seeing it first hand.

Even if you undertake training to prevent your horse from doing it - donít set him up to fail in future.
loosie, LoriF, PoptartShop and 1 others like this.
Horsef is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome