No stop standardbred at times.. - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 16 Old 06-03-2018, 02:21 PM
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As said before, some good advice has been given. I do not have too much to say without reiteration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shellyb0924 View Post
I do not want to jerk her halter or slap her or make her scared of me. I don’t want her to get head shy or jittery.
I will say, however, in a time as such, when a horse is ignoring and nearly dragging you, you need to make your presence known, be it with a jerk or a slap. You will not out-pull a horse. If you try, the horse will lean and drag you, like now.

It sounds like, to me, you are a passive and inexperienced - with and inexperienced horse. That is not a good combination, especially when the horse is doing dangerous behaviors. "Green on green equals black and blue" as they say.

For disciplinary reasons, you can jerk or slap the horse and horse will not be scared of you, given correct timing and it was not excessive force.
For example:
If a horse is trying to bite you and you slap them immediately, the horse will not be scared of you. However, if a horse tries to bite you and you wait, even just five to ten seconds, and then slap the horse, the horse will not understand and may startle due to bad timing. Your window has closed. Horses live in the moment. Discipline must be swift.
If my mare tried to take a step out of the wash stall, which she knows not to do and is generally very good about it, and I hit her in the face, on her chest, or even yelled, even if done immediately, she would probably startle given, had I just said the words "back", she would have backed. That would be one example of excessive force.

Also, as controversial as it is, I have hit horses in the face. No, I do not like it. No, it is not ideal. No, I do not do it often.
One horse, a known biter, had ears pinned, neck stretched, and teeth bared - ready to bite. I hit them, hard, in the face. However, get this, the horse did not become head shy. Why? Because the timing and force was correct. Also, guess what, they never tried to bite me again.
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Last edited by Step2Trot; 06-03-2018 at 02:33 PM.
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post #12 of 16 Old 06-03-2018, 02:33 PM
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this^^


yes, there are times to smack a horse, even in the face, if that is necessary.


but, most work can be done with just creating enough of a 'commotion' to startle the horse into paying attention. Kind of like the teacher who smacks the desk hard to awaken a sleeping student.
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post #13 of 16 Old 06-03-2018, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalraii View Post
I also am all in favour of doing desensitisation but it's important you have the tool to correct her sharply in the moment for your own safety, and for hers.
Oh, absolutely! I've been known to take a knee to a Percheron's chest a few times who was trying to get through me to his buddies in a hurry after I took off the cross ties, sending him whence he came. But I was also mindful of OP's "I tried holding her actual halter so I have more control when she does it but she is to strong."

So yes, she does need to learn to take control of her horse when she gets goofy, but she also doesn't want the horse to be between a rock and a hard plate: Nervous in the cross ties, and scared of being pounced upon by the owner. Since this is a location and situation dependent issue, I figure it requires a more nuanced approach than a Clinton Anderson type "personal hula-hoop space" exercise.

In the end, OP wants her horse to be calm where she is presently not. I think OP already has figured out that she has a control issue...but that doesn't address the underlying problem, nor the problem with her physical strength.
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post #14 of 16 Old 06-04-2018, 10:24 AM
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OP, please don't hold or lead a strong horse directly by the halter. This is a really good way to get hurt. A friend of mine broke a finger this way. Another friend's kid nearly LOST a finger doing this. It's too easy to get snagged, dragged, clocked in the head, run over... The lead rope gives you some much-needed space, and can and should always be carried in a way that lets you instantly drop it if necessary -- ie. looped but never coiled, especially not around your hand!
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post #15 of 16 Old 06-04-2018, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteadyOn View Post
OP, please don't hold or lead a strong horse directly by the halter. This is a really good way to get hurt. A friend of mine broke a finger this way. Another friend's kid nearly LOST a finger doing this. It's too easy to get snagged, dragged, clocked in the head, run over... The lead rope gives you some much-needed space, and can and should always be carried in a way that lets you instantly drop it if necessary -- ie. looped but never coiled, especially not around your hand!



double amen to this^.


if one needs to stop a barging horse, you will have much more ability to take the head around, and disengage the 'engine' if you have the horse on about 5 feet of leadline. Too little and you are pulled along with him, too much and the horse can get lined up, and really moving before the rope engages.
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post #16 of 16 Old 06-04-2018, 03:55 PM
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She's completely disrespectful of you. Racehorses, as a rule, tend not to have the best manners, and they quickly learn who knows what they're doing and who doesn't. This mare has figured out that you can't control her, so she does whatever she wants. The good things-- this is very easy to fix if you know what you're doing-- it's nearly instinctive to instill good manners in a horse for most long-time horse people, but it's something you may have to learn.



One thing I see a lot of people doing is trying to keep the horse from walking ahead or pulling by holding tightly to the halter or shortening up the lead shank. No. All this does is teach the horse to drag you around and not pay attention. Leave some slack in the rope. Let the horse make a mistake. If you're walking and her nose passes your shoulder, pop that lead to correct her and make her back up, then try again. If you want to stop and visit while she's with you, don't try to hold her still-- correct her with a sharp pop when she moves, but let her make the mistake. Don't let her lug on that rope-- bump bump bump until she stops forging or walking ahead.



I also wouldn't tie her in crossties for now. It's much safer to tie her with one lead until she learns she can fidget and scream all she wants and it doesn't get her untied. She's had some big changes and most likely, coming off the track, this may be her first real friendship with other horses in quite some time and she's gotten very buddy-sour. She will likely get better the more you work with her and settle once she's been there a few months, but it may take awhile. Don't always go catch her to make her work-- sometimes just go catch her, lead her away from her herdmates, and let her graze on the lead (put a command on this so your horse doesn't always try to eat while you're leading her-- only when you allow it) or feed her treats or just go sit in a shady spot on a warm day and read a book to her. Let her know you are safe and pleasant and not always going to make her work.
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