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One week to do all I can

3K views 31 replies 13 participants last post by  loosie 
#1 ·
Some might remember this horse I have mentioned before. A family member used to breed sport horses and had one that never imprinted and was difficult to work with. He has sat solo in a corral, ungelded and unhandled for about 10 years now (well fed, though:D). 2 years ago was the last time I was up there and at that time I spent a day halter breaking him. He really isn't too tough of a case, just a bit stand-off-ish.

Well, the family has decided it is in everyone's best interest to sell him. I offered to take a week of leave and work with him for a one-week intensive training course. I don't expect to break him to ride in this time, but to give him the best chance at success in a new home, I want him to have SOME training. What should I try to accomplish in 1 week?

My ideas include:
leading softly
yielding fore and hind
backing politely in hand
picking feet
grooming
being touched everywhere with hand and rope
accepting saddle pad, surcingle and potentially saddle
basic lunging
accepting the snaffle
introduction to hose
being led by other horse's corrals
accepting mock dewormer (applesauce in a large syringe)

Any help is greatly appreciated. This horse is stunning and well bred, and I want him to have a fighting chance at a decent home, and not be passed down the line to the slaughter house. Actually if he shows any promise, I might take him home if/when he gets gelded.
 
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#2 ·
The first thing you need to do is gain his respect. He is ungelded and basically untouched for 10 years. He isn't going to know what to make of a two legged bossing him around. Don't baby him- show him who is boss. I don't know if you have a round pen available, but if so I recommend Join Up by Monty Roberts. If no round pen, just lunge him. After you move his feet and gain respect, your list sounds pretty good. Good luck to you!
 
#6 · (Edited)
What Natisha said.

Picture of him? Could he be gelded a few months ahead of your arrival?

If so then take your trailer. Even if not to keep him it would give you more time to work with him. Just get him loading and take him home for more training.
Wish I could take him home ASAP, but it would require a fair amount of logistics at this point. And his owners are not in a hurry to geld him/don't want to geld him :icon_rolleyes: and would rather sell him as a stud. Plus they don't have the know how to handle him at this time to have a vet come out (all what has been told to me, I don't buy it, a vet should have been out 9 years ago!)

Sadly, no picture of him on me. Wish I had one cause he is spectacularly well put together and has stunning movement. He is a deep bay with countershading and zero white, about 15.1-15.3 hands I would guess. Very baroque looking in his shoulders and neck and has similar knee action when he trots. His sire is a nice Percheron and his dam is an Oldenburg.
 
#8 ·
Greenhaven, I have been struggling internally with that thought. If I had an indoor arena and not a full time job I would in a heartbeat, but he would sit most winter and then only get worked with a couple times per week. I want to take him on SO bsd, but I don't want to overextend myself either...
 
#10 ·
I wouldn't touch him until gelded. I've seen them suddenly turn on a person because they are so hormonally driven. We see mares like this but at least they don't turn on you. You don't need an indoor arena. They're nice but not a necessity. Winter riding can be quite pleasant. You want this horse so bad you can taste it, right? You'll be kicking your butt around corners for weeks if someone else gets him.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I agree with Foxhunter: I don't believe that whether or not a horse was imprinted as a foal actually makes a huge impact on the horse's trainability. I think it has a lot more to do with basic personality. I own two mustangs, both of whom were born on the open range with absolutely no human interaction and spent their formative time there as youngsters. They are both under saddle now and doing great as model domestic equine citizens (trailer loading, bathing, clipping, tying... you name it). My 5 yr gelding is even starting to school some of the "fancier" under saddle things such as lateral work and flying changes.
 
#15 ·
I own two mustangs, both of whom were born on the open range with absolutely no human interaction and spent their formative time there as youngsters. They are both under saddle now and doing great as model domestic equine citizens (trailer loading, bathing, clipping, tying... you name it).
That's really interesting. My niece also trained a mustang and she is a model citizen. Underneath her initial fear of everything, she actually turned out to be a very bold, curious, and people oriented horse. Much nicer than the Paso that my niece doted on as a foal. I think genetics are more important than imprinting.
 
#14 ·
I'm wondering if he will suffer from any behavioural issues from his confinement? Honestly not that educated on the subject with horses but I know dogs suffer major behaviour problems if they aren't socialised well from a young age and removed from their mother/litter mates at the correct time. Are horses the same? Do you think he will be able to cope with change very well? Interact with other horses ok? (Once gelded of course) not so much on the training side of things but more moving to a new location ect.
 
#17 ·
Fantastic discussion!
I agree that horses can be trained just as well without imprinting. His owners do not and when he began acting willfully they gave up and never touched him again. I learned about him just three or four years ago when we were up at the ranch for a weekend. His owners are some of the most generous, wonderful people, but they went head first into a breeding program without knowing much about training and handling, hence the position Thor is now in. Luckily they studied up on bloodlines and bred fantastic lineage. I feel I should note, thet bred 15 foals total and all the others got trained and rehomed into show homes.

What worries me most about Thor is his isolation. He can see other horses, including a mare, but has only once gotten to be with them. Supposedly he kicked the tar out of the two geldings he was with and fought with the Percheron stud (his father) until they managed to herd him back into his corral.

He is a fretter. He walks trenches along the fence and paces so much his hooves look good but have never been touched. But according to his owner, he has been suddenly calming down and actually coming to the fence for rubs and treats, hence he thinks it's now a good time to work with him.

Regarding training, I do plan on moving as slow as he needs. My list is just a goal list, not an itinerary. He will dictate how much we accomplish. From my last session with him I learned he is very smart and eager to learn and interact, but very reactive, too. He responded well to scratched on his wither as a reward. I am very quick to reward even a slight try when the horse is first learning. Makes them willing to keep trying and put their heart in it.
 
#25 ·
A lot of those issues will be magically fixed with a certain vet visit.

What was the thought hmm lets turn this socialized stud in with the other stud and 2 geldings..??

In response to Lauren- absolutely right. Went through this with my own horse who was basically the poster child for "orphan foal syndrome" just due to lack of socialization. Went out with the geldings, wanted to play wouldn't leave the other horses alone despite multiple warnings (that he couldn't read) they flipped on him he went "yay we are playing!!"... so got put out with the mares. Same. Got a good kick from one. Got put out with himself. Added a single mare as a buddy. Got along GREAT until same thing. (Once separated calling for each other lol). Brought him home and kept him separate for a long time (just over the fence line) finally put out "worlds wimpiest horse" in with him. No issues. Worlds wimpiest horse is thrilled to have a friend (he's like the drooling puppy that's happy no matter what lol it's sad but useful!). Kept them that way for several years. Finally put them out with the herd. Today he's out with that gelding a mare he is bffs with (who won't put up with him but won't do anything) and an aggressive gelding that they all know to leave alone. Or he will pester him then be on the other side of the pasture before the gelding has had a change to turn around lol.

Part is he's getting older and is also getting over the "must play must play" and is settling down. Our herd doesn't change frequently. At all. It's small and he knows his friends well. They all get along well. I do wonder if I were to take him back to my trainers again if he'd settle in.

As far as response, it really depends on the poster. "Me buying untouched stud!! He so pretty!! How to deal with his biting???" would get a much different reaction than someone who knows what they are getting into and how to deal with it!
 
#18 ·
** Reread my post above and when I say confinement I really mean isolation, from other horses specifically. I have a Brumby who was captured from the snowy mountains as a yearling/two year oldish. He is the safest most placid horse I have ever met. Absolute gem! ;) And two more brumbies now who weren't captured until 8 and 10 yrs old one who is turning out the same way but growing up in a herd vs growing up and spending his life alone. Wondering what kind of effect that will have on him. Just curious about it. :)
 
#21 ·
12 days until we travel North for a week of training! I am super excited. Haven't gotten to work with a greenie in a while, since my two came to me already trained, just needing refining, so this will be fun. I truly enjoy watching green horses' brains work out new concepts. I am also eager to see if I can get Thor to show some personality, I have a feeling once he gets comfortable with humans IN his pen that he will have a lot of personality to show.

I plan on updating with tons of photos, maybe even a video or two.
 
#22 ·
Alas & alack, especially as he's a stud, can't see anyone other than the meat man wanting to pay anything at all for a 10yo neglected stallion. Sounds like poor guy never gets out of the corral & I assume his hooves haven't been dealt with, or his teeth, worming, etc. But if you give him some basic handling, more chance someone might want to take him on for nothing, as a 'rescue', rather than him going to the killers. So best wishes. Sounds like you appreciate all that. Just stick to the basics, don't try to do too much.
 
#23 ·
loosie, I fear that he may end up with the meat man if they aren't careful :( And indeed his feet have never been touched. Somehow, he has managed to self trim fairly well due to his pacing the fence line.

Who knows, maybe I will end up with him AFTER he has been castrated.

We are leaving on Monday morning, don't have a computer when not at work so will try to post updates from my phone from time to time if there is a decent internet connection up there. No matter what, expect a boat load of pictures and maybe a few video links by Sunday the 20th.

Thanks to the forum for all the suggestions and support. I half expected to post this thread and get torn apart for even wanting to attempt it. You all are such a treasure trove of advise, support and sympathy.
 
#26 ·
Well, that was a very frustrating, unproductive week :( I spent 3 days simply getting him to the point of being pet and brushed without flinching. When I brought a rope in he got frantic and aggressive. The combination of testosterone and fear was out of my league so after I chased him off of a charge I crawled out and told his owner I couldn't do anything more without risking my own safety. THAT is a humbling experience. We all had a chat and they are going to keep him as a through-the-fence ornament, as he has been. They don't want to see him get in a bad place or be put through the slaughter houses.

Horse Mammal Vertebrate Mane Stallion


Horse Mammal Vertebrate Mare Stallion


Horse Ranch Stallion Pasture Ecoregion
 
#27 ·
Just thought I would expand a bit on what I was seeing, cause others may learn from it or have insight on it. Even when I got him to the point of accepting hands and a brush on his shoulder, neck, head, ears, face and nose, I had to keep a careful eye on him. His ears were constantly on me, which I expected and was fine. He also highly preferred having me in his right eye and fought more when I was on his left. I did eventually get him to accept me switching eyes (especially for a brush, he LOVED having his chest brushed). But even as he got "accepting" of these things and would sigh, yawn, cock a back foot and stop flinching at each touch, one thing NEVER once loosened: the muscles around his mouth and muzzle. It was a constant sneer that told me he wasn't 100% giving in to the experience and was resistant. The only time I saw it ease was when I was outside the fence feeding him carrots, lol.
 
#28 ·
So he lives all alone in a pen? He's dangerously aggressive & unhandlable. How do they do his hooves? Teeth? Worm him?.... etc, etc. Poor guy & selfish, unthinking owners!! Makes me so angry & sad. Good on you for giving him a chance & sad but smart that you admitted defeat.

Think about the solitary confinement thing - you not only have an unhandled stallion to deal with, but one who is very likely at least a bit demented from his sad life. There are worse things than the slaughterhouse...
 
#29 ·
I agree, loosie. After I admitted defeat, I asked for a moment alone, shut the door to the guest bedroom, threw my sleeping bag over my head and had a good 30 minute sob.

He doesn't get any care beyond hay and water. Somehow his feet are decent (probably from pacing) but I don't want to even think of his teeth!
He may be moved to another pen, that used to be an arena when they had riding horses. It is adjacent to the geldings and his father (still a stud). But a shelter needs to be put in there (easy, they are movable, modular run-ins) and a chute built to get him there. At least then he could have over-the-fence interaction with other horses.

I highly disagree with the owner's decisions regarding their horses, but I have to remember they are not mine and it's my husband's family, so I have to stay civil. At least they are all well fed.
 
#30 ·
^Yeah, sounds like this is a case where it's best just not to look... :-( Just wish I was susceptible to hypnotherapy so I could get someone to program me not to see animals I'm not responsible for that I can't help...
 
#31 ·
When my twh was so fearful his mouth was immoveable but I persisted in putting a finger in. At first he'd clamp tight around my finger until I wiggled it and then he'd try to push it out with his tongue. At least his mouth was moving. This was repeated many times during the following week before he began to relax. Funny thing is, he's the easiest horse to deworm. Show him the tube and he'll grab it and suck the dewormer out of it. Even before I began working his mouth. I'm having a hard time with the mind set of these people.
 
#32 ·
I'm having a hard time with the mind set of these people.
I think 'own medicine' is the only way to get thru to some... I'd like to put these owners in solitary confinement, in a boring cell with nothing to do, no health care & throw them a bag of Allbran daily... & have people occasionally come by to stare at the 'through the fence ornament' :evil::evil::evil:

But since I'm not allowed to do those kind of things, and if, unfortunately the situation is 'acceptable' legally, then I'd still be voicing my concerns to them(tactfully as possible, not just to 'keep civil' but they're more likely to actually consider what you say if you can find a respectful way of putting it(regardless how DISrespectful you might feel...) And then turn a blind eye - no point stressing yourself out more feeling sorry for a poor animal you can't help.
 
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