Opinions on frame? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 07-12-2019, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
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Opinions on frame?

A better title would be opinions on how my mare is carrying herself but didnít want the title to be too long.

Opinions please?

Iím going back and forth on how I think my 3 yr old carries herself at a lope.

I donít really care about headset, but I do care about her being soft, using her hindquarters, and carrying herself properly.

When she rides like this she feels good. But looking at the pictures.. I donít see other Friesians carrying themselves like this. (Granted sheís 2/3 Friesian, not full) She looks like a ranch horse in the one picture. All the best horsemen Iíve ever talked to have said that if a horse is using their body correctly, it doesnít matter where the head falls. Which I understand, except she just doesnít look like a English/dressage horse to me... ugh. I wish my trainer lived close.

Any thoughts?

P.S. She will ride like this on a loose rein usually as well, unless sheís being lazy and hollows out and I have to ask her to come into frame again
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post #2 of 28 Old 07-12-2019, 09:09 AM
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Young, unbalanced still and looks very heavy like she is leaning into the rein for support. My impression is that you are not sitting deeply and you are leaning forward and perching which could be interfering though you may be being pulled forward. These are just though a captured moment in time and we are not getting the full picture. Do you have video?



What is her other third?
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post #3 of 28 Old 07-12-2019, 09:26 AM
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Although she appears to be coming from behind, a rounded hindquarter and stepping under, forehand higher than hind...she looks heavy on your arms.
You though are not helping her either.
You sit on-top of your saddle not in your saddle. Perched is a good description word.
You have a closed/rounded back and shoulder, are bent forward at the waist putting additional weight to the frontend of the horse.
Sit up, open that shoulder angle and softly straighten that back and LOOK UP...eyes up will fix many a issue with how a horse travels.
Put that butt in the saddle and ride...not drive unless that is your wanted motion.

Both pictures you lean over, hover and have dropped head & eyes and your horse copies your motion with her body.
I honestly don't care what "breed" of horse it is or that you ride.
As a rider with rounded back, weight in front of the vertical, eyes down...you don't appear to have much weight in your legs let alone heel...a recipe for a "eat dirt" moment in the making.
I had a horse who traveled much like that...drop your eyes you was toast...face-plant faster than you can blink...
Get yourself better balanced and I bet the horse will also raise the heavy head and lighten the load on your arms as he travels forward from a push not a pull.
Not as easy as writing it to do this...slow steps.
Eyes up and sit up...as you do both of those the rest pretty much falls into place of weight travels down your back through hip into your legs and falls out the boot bottom...= balanced rider.
Start though with the tough one...EYES UP as the habit to break, so hard to do.
My instructor is forever telling me, "Eyes up, go where you look, look where you go...." It works!!

Good luck and enjoy the homework you will now face from responses shared.
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post #4 of 28 Old 07-12-2019, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QtrBel View Post
Young, unbalanced still and looks very heavy like she is leaning into the rein for support. My impression is that you are not sitting deeply and you are leaning forward and perching which could be interfering though you may be being pulled forward. These are just though a captured moment in time and we are not getting the full picture. Do you have video?



What is her other third?
Appaloosa.

I have struggled to sit deep for awhile. I feel like Iím constantly working on it. Ugh. So some of thatís me. That particular day she was admittedly pretty heavy but normally I can squeeze with my legs and she carries herself. Iíll see if I can get a video. I started her last October but donít ride her regularly - she has well under 100 rides on her right now

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post #5 of 28 Old 07-12-2019, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horselovinguy View Post
Although she appears to be coming from behind, a rounded hindquarter and stepping under, forehand higher than hind...she looks heavy on your arms.
You though are not helping her either.
You sit on-top of your saddle not in your saddle. Perched is a good description word.
You have a closed/rounded back and shoulder, are bent forward at the waist putting additional weight to the frontend of the horse.
Sit up, open that shoulder angle and softly straighten that back and LOOK UP...eyes up will fix many a issue with how a horse travels.
Put that butt in the saddle and ride...not drive unless that is your wanted motion.

Both pictures you lean over, hover and have dropped head & eyes and your horse copies your motion with her body.
I honestly don't care what "breed" of horse it is or that you ride.
As a rider with rounded back, weight in front of the vertical, eyes down...you don't appear to have much weight in your legs let alone heel...a recipe for a "eat dirt" moment in the making.
I had a horse who traveled much like that...drop your eyes you was toast...face-plant faster than you can blink...
Get yourself better balanced and I bet the horse will also raise the heavy head and lighten the load on your arms as he travels forward from a push not a pull.
Not as easy as writing it to do this...slow steps.
Eyes up and sit up...as you do both of those the rest pretty much falls into place of weight travels down your back through hip into your legs and falls out the boot bottom...= balanced rider.
Start though with the tough one...EYES UP as the habit to break, so hard to do.
My instructor is forever telling me, "Eyes up, go where you look, look where you go...." It works!!

Good luck and enjoy the homework you will now face from responses shared.
...
Thank you so much. This is definitely helpful. I feel like itís such a bad habit, my trainer worked on it with me for a year and I still struggle to remember to sit deep ďon my pocketsĒ.

I definitely know I CAN because Iíve done it and she rides so much better. But getting into that subconscious habit of doing it is another story. Lol.

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post #6 of 28 Old 07-12-2019, 09:54 AM
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You don't really want to be on your pockets either though the image helps. You want to be fully and deeply on your seat bones. Put your pockets underneath and you are leaning back shifting your legs forward. Even if the motion is only slight you have placed your self on your horse's back which is also going to cause interference. As HLG said - Head up, eyes forward, chest open, shoulders back...and deep, your position will then invite the horse to elevate her front end and bring her back underneath her. You'll both be better balanced.
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post #7 of 28 Old 07-12-2019, 10:04 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QtrBel View Post
You don't really want to be on your pockets either though the image helps. You want to be fully and deeply on your seat bones. Put your pockets underneath and you are leaning back shifting your legs forward. Even if the motion is only slight you have placed your self on your horse's back which is also going to cause interference. As HLG said - Head up, eyes forward, chest open, shoulders back...and deep, your position will then invite the horse to elevate her front end and bring her back underneath her. You'll both be better balanced.
Iím so thankful you guys commented. After reading this itís making more sense, that Iím probably interfering with her movement by pulling on her and using her for support. Iím going to work on that today and get more pics and video 😊

Iíve been told this a million times but I didnít realize I was slipping back into the bad habit till you guys mentioned it

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post #8 of 28 Old 07-12-2019, 12:11 PM
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With a young horse it's quite normal to be light off her back at the canter, so to me, it's not such a big deal. That said, the horse is pulling you forward and leaning heavily on the rein, and you are somewhat obliging her I'm curious what she looks like at the trot.

I think that work more at trot, and trot where she not allowed to lean on the rein might help A horse at only 3 can struggle to canter balanced with a rider up.
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post #9 of 28 Old 07-12-2019, 12:50 PM
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Different seats based on different purposes. Nothing wrong with perching above your stirrups, but that means using your legs instead of your seat and still looking forward. There is also nothing wrong with a defensive seat, preferably with the pelvis rolled back a little (on your pockets). Good for a horse who might spook, or turn or stop without asking, or for a horse who is pulling you forward.

I recommend Schooling Your Horse: A Simple Up-to-Date Method of Schooling Hunters, Jumpers and Hacks by VS Littauer. I'm a western rider with no interest in jumping, but I like the book. A trail horse also needs to feel good moving forward with low strides, but lifting his feet enough to stay safe and balanced. From the book:
Quote:
...Forward Schooling does not aim at anything spectacular; it is merely intended to produce efficient, pleasant to ride hunters and jumpers who will give the least trouble to their riders.

The second aim of Forward Schooling is to achieve those results by the simplest possible means, so that almost anyone who has some experience in the saddle, time and desire, can at least improve the performance of his horse....The simpler the riding, the better is the chance that at least most of the time the horse will not need more than merely an indication of what to do next. If one has to use his aids constantly and artistically to obtain, let us say, a Pirouette at a collected gallop, there is no reason whatsoever to think the same uninterrupted control, even of a simpler brand, is necessary when just cantering on gently rolling fields...The fact is that neither collection, great precision nor brilliance are called for in cross-country riding which is based on ordinary gaits..."
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post #10 of 28 Old 07-12-2019, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny View Post
With a young horse it's quite normal to be light off her back at the canter, so to me, it's not such a big deal. That said, the horse is pulling you forward and leaning heavily on the rein, and you are somewhat obliging her I'm curious what she looks like at the trot.

I think that work more at trot, and trot where she not allowed to lean on the rein might help A horse at only 3 can struggle to canter balanced with a rider up.
I know a picture isnít nearly as good as video but here is a pic I took awhile ago. Iím going to get video and hopefully more pictures tonight.
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