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thoughts about hackamores

7K views 42 replies 19 participants last post by  Keira Cloudhawk 
#1 ·
I just got my horse a hackamore online...it hasn't come yet... It is mechanical. my horse and I hate bits. WE can turn and go with my legs, I try to keep my hands soft... I have been riding him in a nylon halter lately what is the difference besides the shanks???? any thoughts would be helpful and not just o my question on the whole thing.
 
#2 ·
I ride my 3 yo filly a lot in a bit less bridle rope halter and she loves it. In fact when I put a snaffle on her she acts offended. I had a horse a long time ago that I rode often in a mechanical and a bosal. She preferred the bosal. I plan on riding this youngster mainly in a bosal.
 
#5 ·
I guess a hackamore can offer more precise communication if you needed it, and also more control.

Having said that, my daughter rode her horse in a mechanical hackamore for a while, and that horse had no problem blowing through her aids.

I have ridden my Pony with just a halter and the lead rope tied to it as reins, and he responded pretty well. I don't ride him that way for lessons or really serious riding, just hacking around.

It's good that your hands are soft, because with a mechanical hackamore you do have the possibility of really being able to hurt them, especially if the shanks are longer.

To me, if riding in the halter is working, I'd stick with that. But since you've already ordered the hackamore, go ahead and try it and see how you guys do. If you get better performance, then great! Do just be super aware of your hands.
 
#6 ·
Not sure what type of hackamore you ordered, but a typical mechanical hackamore functions a lot like a curb bit. You just have a nose-band instead of a mouthpiece. But that's not a bad thing......I like mechanical hackamores (and curb bits) a lot!


I personally like a flat leather noseband, something like this:





But a lot of people seem to do find with a rope noseband as well. I just try to keep things as mild as I can while still getting the results I want. I think the ideal bit (or hackamore) gives you the control you need while still being comfortable for the horse. :)


The nice thing about a hackamore like the above is that it's completely "off" when your reins are loose. So you have control when you need it, but it's similar to the nose-band of a halter when it's not engaged. You can even take off the big ugly chain and use a simpler curb strap if desired. Just whatever your horse does well with.
 
#10 ·
I ride my mare in an English mechanical hackamore. She gets upset in a bit and will blow through aids. She is much happier in a hackamore. I ride her with little to no direct contact, mostly off of seat and neck reining, and she accepts light and brief direct contact when it's needed.

Hackamores are best for people with light hands and a horse that is otherwise responsive to gentle aids, because the leverage amplifies your direct signals. Just like any other tool, it can certainly be harmful when ill-fitted or used in a harsh manner.
 
#11 ·
Some more information would be helpful.


How old is your horse?
How long have you had him?


Have you ever had his teeth evaluate/floated by a qualified dentist?


Have you ever worked with a trainer or taken lessons?


What bits have you tried so far?



Personally, I feel that ANY horse should be trained well enough to understand and accept a bit. It still might not be their favorite, but I want them to respect what I have asked them to do. It's just good training.


Sometimes, hackamores have their place. Personally, a mechanical hackamore is probably never going to be on the hackamore list, LOL. The shanks are usually very very long ("harsh") and it does not work well for direct reining at all (confusing signals).



My go-to for a hackamore is a Little S Hackamore.



But again, some more information about your horse would be helpful.
 
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#12 ·
he is 12-15 more on the 12 side.
I have had him for 9 months

I'm not sure. but they will be this year.

I have taken lessons on him

I have used a western port bit, shanked snaffle bit, and an o ringed 2 part snaffle

It's not that he doesn't listen to them he justs doesn't like having it in his mouth. He'll listen if I use one. I don't like it either to...
 
#13 ·
I've had horses that were awful in any bit but went really well in hackamores.

Unless you're needing a bit to compete then I really don't think it matters what you're using as long as the horse is safe and happy in it.

You don't mention what type of hackamore you're using but this is me preferred type for all round riding. Its the Stubben version of the English Hackamore, similar action but its got more refinement in its style.

If the shanks are a problem and you want something that's more like a halter but with a purpose designed fit then buy one of the bitless bridles on the market.
I like the Micklem version
 

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#14 ·
Generally speaking, I don’t know why people choose a mechanical “hackamore” over a traditional rawhide hackamore. Especially those who are actively trying to achieve more contact and more feel between the rider and a more sensitive horse.

With a traditional hackamore, you custom / correctly fit the gear to the horse. There are different lengths of bars, different diameters, lengths of the nosebands; all make a difference on how a hackamore fits and functions. If the hackamore is too tight there isn’t enough signal, and if it fits too loose the signal is delayed and sloppy.

How can a commercially made mechanical “hackamore“ fit each horse correctly? They don't form to the horse's head.

Obviously we’ve all seen people use the mechanical “hackamore” exclusively as a leverage tool, communicating through pain / intimidation. That’s not the crowd I’m confused about using this tool. It’s those who want to rely on feel or education to get a response, but choose this tack in particular to achieve it.
 

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#18 ·
How can a commercially made mechanical “hackamore“ fit each horse correctly? They don't form to the horse's head.
My mechanical hackamore is adjustable both on the noseband as well as the curb strap. Both pieces are flexible leather. They absolutely form to the horse's head. The only pieces that are completely not adjustable, of course, are the metal pieces. But you can absolutely adjust how far up on the horse's face it needs to be by means of the cheek pieces, where the shanks are set horizontally (closer to where the noseband sits or closer to where the curb strap sits), and how tight you want the curb strap.

I have personally never ridden in a traditional hackamore, and without having hands-on knowledge about them, have always seen them as stiff and abrasive, perhaps difficult to give sideways cues without moving the whole thing. But I could be wrong because I don't have experience with them. Perhaps you are thinking the same way with mechanical hackamores.
 
#19 ·
If you need rein aid to stop the horse then don't be so sure about how soft your hands are. Adding this device increases the pressure over a halter and rein combo. If you are using it as an aid to stop your horse then that hole in training needs to be addressed.
 
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#21 ·
If you need rein aid to stop the horse then don't be so sure about how soft your hands are...If you are using it as an aid to stop your horse then that hole in training needs to be addressed.
Some horses get excited or enthusiastic about speed. That isn't a training hole. That is a "feature" - a good aspect of a horse. It has nothing to do with how well they will stop when nothing exciting is going on. I wouldn't want to ride a horse who would always stop off my seat!

A horse who never tells his rider, "Just who do you think you are? You aren't the boss of me!" would be...well, not to my taste. Nothing to do with "hands" or "training". I want a horse to sometimes tell me "But this is FUN!" Or even, "Are you NUTS?"
 
#22 ·
Ehh no. Decidedly not. My horses are NEVER allowed to decide not to stop. Not ever. This is a safety issue. They are allowed to have their own opinions about stopping, they are allowed to tell me they'd rather not stop right now, but they MUST stop. Just like my horses are NEVER allowed to kick me or bite me, they are never allowed to not stop when I ask. I don't want to be loping a horse on the trail and come up on a piece of wire and have them decide to plow through it instead of stopping. I never want a horse to spook and not stop when I ask, and run out onto a road and get us both killed. I'm training Dreams to drive at the moment, and when we're driving around town in traffic I NEVER want him to decide not to whoa - not only can he hurt himself and me, but innocent bystanders as well. Stopping is non negotiable. I have been on two rides where I am absolutely certain my horse's quick response to my whoa aides saved both of our lives, and several other rides where I am certain that my horse's quick response to my whoa aides at least averted a serious incident.

-- Kai
 
#24 ·
I retain the right to tell my horse I don't care how much fun he is having...but I make MY objection clear via the reins, not my "seat". I know about bolting. Separate issue. My point is that if you can always stop your horse with just your seat....it isn't a horse I'm interested in riding. Not every horse can EVER be trained to stop every time using "seat aids". Thank the Lord!
 
#27 · (Edited)
I don't mind real hackamores at all, but for a number of reasons, I don't like the mechanical leverage devices aka so called 'english-' or 'french-hackamores' but as with a bit or any other bitless bridle, a lot depends on how you ride & how well trained your horse is, to this gear as with other, as to how good/bad it is in most normal situations.

What I don't like about them... They are leverage devices which, esp if noseband thin &/or hard, &/or there's a chain for the chin strap, &/or shanks are long, &/or it's fitted low on the nose... etc, etc, can be extremely harsh. Even nose-breakingly! Despite their name, they are not great for English riding, riding with 'contact', direct reining & finer specifics can be unclear, crude - better for loose rein Western style riding. Accidents happen - horses get tangled in reins or such - and serious pain/injury is just as likely with one of these devices as with a bit. Many(IME) horses don't like them, IME and as with a bit or anything else, you must take the time to introduce it and get the horse comfortable about just wearing one, before using it for control.

Especially if a horse needs it's teeth done, the constant pressure on the cheeks & nose can be uncomfortable or even painful.

If I had to choose one of these to use, I'd go with a very short shank, a padded, wide, flat nosepiece and a padded, wide-ish flat chinstrap.
 
#31 ·
Why were you using a ported & a shanked bit? What sort of riding do you do?

I'm curious also, why have you chosen a bitless leverage device rather than an actual hackamore or a gentler, clearer other style?
 
#33 ·
I, too, am not a big fan of mechanical hackamores. Personally I prefer putting the training in and getting a horse going really well in a bosal, but that's not for everyone. Sidepulls work nicely with minimal training, and you can pick one from the very gentle flat leather noseband all the way up to a single rope nose if you need that much bite to it. The 'Little S' can technically be called a mechanical hack and I've used those before with great success. They seem to be accepted by a wide range of horses and work pretty well, again with minimal training. Depending on the horse, sometimes I will use a simple rope halter or knotted nose rope halter. Those don't work with dull horses but if your horse has a sensitive nose they work very well.

-- Kai
 
#39 · (Edited by Moderator)
"My reservation stems predominately from the mechanical "hackamore" using leverage as the primary means of communication...."

A mechanical hackamore, like a curb bit, can give cues based on the rotation of the shanks prior to pressure. It also allows the option, if the horse isn't in the mood to obey, of increasing the "volume" of your request. A bit probably gives more precise cues to the horse, but lots of horses don't need much precision. I have no interest in "one handed pirouettes and counter cantering" - and I thank you for respecting that!

When Bandit's emotions are running high, he's not very responsive. The last ride I had on him, he was full of vinegar for the first 15 minutes. Getting him to listen or trot/canter smoothly was difficult. Then he settled down, got in his groove, and we were fine after that. I'm fine with that. Others might view him as untrained, or badly trained, but he had been cooped up in a corral for a while and I expected him to be full of himself. I'd be kind of sad if he hadn't been.

We aren't refined, but we understand each other just fine. We like each other. We both have the option of telling the other that we're angry, tired, frustrated, happy - whatever. Sometimes we're in harmony. Sometimes we argue. Heck, I've been married for over 30 years and that is how my marriage works too!
 
#40 ·
A mechanical hackamore, like a curb bit, can give cues based on the rotation of the shanks prior to pressure. It also allows the option, if the horse isn't in the mood to obey, of increasing the "volume" of your request. A bit probably gives more precise cues to the horse, but lots of horses don't need much precision. I have no interest in "one handed pirouettes and counter cantering" - and I thank you for respecting that!
This ^^

Most of my ride in a mechanical hackamore is gone without any direct contact. The whole thing just hangs. The only pressure on her face during that time is perhaps the weight of the hackamore itself (which would apply to any headstall), but otherwise it does not put any leverage-related pressure on her face that would dull her while I'm not using it.

As someone else mentioned (I'm not going looking for it but I remember someone saying it), the mechanical hackamore is not an ideal tool for riders who go with constant contact. That, certainly, would dull a horse.

If fitted well, the shanks have quite a bit of rotational freedom before they start putting pressure on the horse's face, as explained well by @bsms. My horse can feel when I lift my rein (without yet creating leverage), way before I go so far as picking up direct contact. And most of the time, that's all she needs. Are there times I use that leverage? Yes - she is a hot-blooded Arabian cross and sometimes she decides going for a gallop is much more interesting than listening to me. I am not using leverage in place of good training - sometimes, it doesn't matter how much training a horse has, they're going! And I use a bit of that leverage to say "excuse me, you've had your fun, let's tone it down a notch!"

There has only been one time I needed a lot of leverage to stop my mare from galloping into a road (she was going "Wheeeee! This is fun!"). She practically sat on her butt when she felt it. I never want to use that much leverage again, and I haven't needed to since then, but it also shows that 1) my softer cues are not nearly enough to elicit a response anything like that, but she still listens to them 99% of the time, and 2) I have that leverage if I ever need it in an emergency.
 
#42 ·
Welp.

I have no problems with a mechanical hackamore. I have two or three in my trailer at all times. Properly fitted, I have no idea how someone could break a horse's nose (A cautionary tale I've read and been told repeatedly). I've tried the leather wrapped chain type, and the Little S rope type. The leather wrapped get my endorsement.

My only reason for even trying them to begin with was... once again... because of Trigger. He would NOT let me get a bit in his mouth or handle his ears (Headstall) without a thrashing, flailing, high headed, meltdown. He was unresponsive to most bits, or in my ignorance and thinking the bigger the bit, the better the brakes, a bit would send him straight into the air. He'd also pull right through any bit no matter what I asked of him if he was dead set on Going Forward. On the recommendation of a friend's elderly granma (Lovely Native American grannie who in her youth trained horses all day, every day), I tried this hackamore on him with just a simple leather hanger. Suddenly, he accepted it easier than a halter. There was no fight at all over it. I could ease it on over his nylon halter and take his halter off to ride (There's a reason for that, just go with it) and not have him strip away from me and bolt off with my saddle and no headstall on. I tried the Little S on him... and he would fight it so hard on a ride he'd get his nose rubbed raw, so I sold it. Went back to the leather wrapped.

Took about a year of riding in it and a lot of work to get him to listen to me, and we switched to a life-saver bit and haven't looked back. I keep the hacks around for The Old Man and AJ, neither of which have any problems that would ever cause me to somehow crank back enough on it to hurt them.
 
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