Training issue, discomfort, or being a brat. - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 26 Old 04-30-2016, 04:56 PM
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Those bits really don't look that different. I would try it up a little higher in his mouth, and it looks like you're going for western but I would put a flash on there for a bit. Just fix it in place a little more. Being lower in his mouth there is more play and he may not like it. I would also try some different types of bits, like very different (say a curb different). In addition to what the other posters said.
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post #22 of 26 Old 04-30-2016, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
Agree, not as obvious as you think!
I can tell you that in 30 years, starting many colts, also taking clinics with many great horsemen, horses, if ridden correctly with a bit, allowed to understand the new pressure points in their mouth, through progressive training, have no mouth issues, don't have a problem with bits
Many people assume that horses 'don't like bits', because they try bittless, and the horse seems to accept it better, without taking into consideration that bittless used many of the same pressure points the horse is used to, ever since being halter broke
They then expect that immediate transference to a bit, which used entirely new and 'virgin' pressure points, that a horse has to be taught to respond to, and not be expected to extrapolate
I can think of a very few cases where there is a true reason to go bittless, besides personal preference

_ the horse has a true mouth malformation
- the horse had his mouth abused by incorrect use of a bit
- the horse has been intimidated by a bit, through incorrect use, thus drops behind the vertical
The horse is at an age where he is changing teeth

Other then that, it is rider preference, which is fine. To me, a broke horse should be able to ride bittless, as well as with a bit, BUT, I also believe the reverse is true, and a horse, with no issues, as mentioned above, that MUST be ridden bittless, has holes in training, JMO
How can a person tell if a horses mouth has been 'abused' by a bit? When I brought this buy home he was extremely hard mouthed and would run through and ignore the bit. That being said--I saw what the lady used in him, it was thin a twisted wire bit, it want a solid mouth piece, and it was also a shanked bit. It was the first time I had ever seen a bit like this.
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post #23 of 26 Old 05-01-2016, 01:26 AM
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Are you saying that he was ridden in a curb with a thin twisted mouth piece?
If so, then i can see why he would be resistant in a bit.
A bit, like you describe, if I am reading your post correctly, is not a bit that would be used in any good training program, nor show legal, (judged event), but is used by some gymkhana people
Was it something like the fourth bit pictured in this link (311 )
If that is the case I would ride him in a bosal, or even a mechanical hackamore, if not comfortable using a bosal, and put some basic softness on him, although, if he ran through a bit, unless you also get him 'mentally soft, as well as physically, he can learn to run through a hack also, eventually
If no serious mouth damage is present, like a cut tongue, I would ride him bittless, going back to basics, and then re -introduce a snaffle, once he relaxes and learns to trust your hands
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post #24 of 26 Old 05-01-2016, 11:39 AM
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I would get a vet to check him out, check his teeth again, and check for lameness issues, as well as ulcers. A chiropractor might also be able to help, as something might be "off" somewhere. You could also check your saddle for fit issues, as this could cause a lot of his issues, specifically if the gullet is too small for your horse and is pinching his withers. Also, what is your arena footing like? Is it rocky? Your horse might be better on the trail or out of the arena because he is walking on softer ground. You could look into different farrier work like shoes if this is a problem.
I would just try as many different things as possible, to eliminate and find the problem. Check saddle fit and bridle fit first, then hooves or arena footing, then get a vet out to check him over for lameness and his mouth, and for ulcers, get a chiropractor out, etc.

Hope this helps!
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post #25 of 26 Old 05-01-2016, 11:49 AM
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Probably all orders would like to announce that they have good kind hands, however this is all so often not the fact.

I see orders with their hands in the correct place and their fingers are soft but their wrist and arm are stand not moving with the horse, this makes the reins go slack and tight thus giving little jerks at all paces.

The fact that he goes well on a loose rein and in a hackamore, says to me that it could be your hands - any chance of a video?
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post #26 of 26 Old 05-01-2016, 11:49 AM
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If your horse was ridden in something like that its hardly surprising that he now hates having a bit in his mouth, to him its an association with pain and discomfort
I'd suggest you ride him in the Little S for the time being if he's happy in that in the hope that he'll forget.
Maybe in the future you can start to re-introduce a mild bit, perhaps on the lunge to start with - no side reins - so he can get used to the feel of it without any pressure on it at all
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