THIS is quality jumping? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 28 Old 06-18-2020, 03:45 AM
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Showjumping at this scale is all about getting it DONE, whatever that has to look like. .... So it can take a LOT of hand to keep them controlled, and it can look ugly, and the horses can get worked up and do things like buck.
This is why I won't even watch that vid AC & I'm very fussy about what 'equestrian sports' I watch. As Steady said, it's about 'getting it done', the horse is just a 'tool of the trade'... Not to mention the collateral damage from horses doing a lot of these huge jumps.

Now off to look at some Hunter jumper vids, thanks Steady & HLG.
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post #12 of 28 Old 06-18-2020, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ACinATX View Post
I'm really asking, honestly, for enlightenment here. I guess I had imagined something where everything would just look smoother and more put-together, more elegant I guess, and it would look like the horse and rider were cooperating, not fighting each other.
Something to realize is that in order to have the energy and drive to jump at this level, many of the horses are really hot. Meaning, if they didn't have this particular niche in life, they might be some that would get labeled as crazy, insane and may require a professional handler even when not being ridden. The riders would ideally prefer the horses didn't buck or kick out, but sometimes there are trade-offs to have horses that can get to these levels. They may have some temperament issues or behavioral issues that go along with their energy level.

There are also a lot of things that can go wrong, which requires that the horse and rider are a team, but it will be more of a loud discussion than many people have with their horses. Like you might gently drive your car in the neighborhood, but if you are driving on a race track you will be stomping harder on the gas and brake in order to stay safe, and cranking the steering wheel. Horses are not machines, but in order to do extreme athletic maneuvers sometimes the language gets loud since things are coming by fast and dangerously. If the horse does not shorten their gait or extend it right NOW, you will not make it over the fence. If the horse only responds when you ask him somewhat loudly to do this when he's excited, then that is how communication happens. That doesn't mean it reaches the point where it causes bruises or bleeding, but obviously some sore muscles at times. But it seems these horses have massage and physical therapy of all kinds, so those things are addressed after competition.
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post #13 of 28 Old 06-18-2020, 07:38 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks! I searched for ASPCA Mclay finals and watched some videos. Yes, that's more what I was thinking about. Really nice riding.

A question for anyone still reading this thread: if scoring in jumpers is based on speed and height, what is scoring in hunters based on? For instance, in hunters, if there were two riders and one had a shorter time but a less attractive ride, and the other had a gorgeous ride but a slightly longer time, which one wins?

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post #14 of 28 Old 06-18-2020, 08:23 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by loosie View Post
This is why I won't even watch that vid AC & I'm very fussy about what 'equestrian sports' I watch. As Steady said, it's about 'getting it done', the horse is just a 'tool of the trade'... Not to mention the collateral damage from horses doing a lot of these huge jumps.

Now off to look at some Hunter jumper vids, thanks Steady & HLG.
Yes, I couldn't help thinking of those things as I was watching this video as well. I'm just trying to educate myself about how things are supposed to look, to help me become a better rider. I figured watching some videos of really high-level riding would help, but now I'm thinking maybe not. I guess those guys are on a whole other plane of existence, and there isn't much they can teach me right now.

I did watch some of the ASPCA Mclay finals, and like I said, that was really nice riding.
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post #15 of 28 Old 06-18-2020, 08:32 AM
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A good one to watch that's a best-of-both-worlds kind of rider is Bill Steinkraus. He could do some extremely intense, effective riding, and with incredible equitation that always looks pretty darn tidy -- considering.

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post #16 of 28 Old 06-18-2020, 08:33 AM
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The easiest way to answer that is for you to google score card for hunter over fences class. This may not copy but you can also look up Julie Winkels score card symbols for that class. Ok round two. The rides are marked as the jumps are taken. After the class the rounds are scored based on the symbols and then the round is placed. Here is a symbol card and an example of a class
Attached Images
File Type: png SCORE1.PNG (16.0 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg Score2.jpg (23.2 KB, 1 views)
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post #17 of 28 Old 06-18-2020, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ACinATX View Post
A question for anyone still reading this thread: if scoring in jumpers is based on speed and height, what is scoring in hunters based on? For instance, in hunters, if there were two riders and one had a shorter time but a less attractive ride, and the other had a gorgeous ride but a slightly longer time, which one wins?
Height is what level you're jumping at and has no influence on the score. In jumpers, you're scored on how "clean" the round is (ie whether you have rails/refusals or not) and how fast you are. Nothing more and nothing less.

Hunters is more subjective and is more about who has the "prettiest" round. The smoothest most rhythmic round, with the nicest form. The rider's position isn't supposed to be judged (hunters is about the HORSE) and time plays nearly no part in it.

Then there's equitation over fences which is about the rider's position and form, and how quietly and easily the RIDER does the course. Of course, it's easier to look pretty on an easy horse!

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post #18 of 28 Old 06-18-2020, 08:41 AM
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Here is a link explaining How Do Hunter Judges Score A Round? ? EquestrianCoach.com Blog
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post #19 of 28 Old 06-18-2020, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ACinATX View Post
Yes, I couldn't help thinking of those things as I was watching this video as well. I'm just trying to educate myself about how things are supposed to look, to help me become a better rider. I figured watching some videos of really high-level riding would help, but now I'm thinking maybe not. I guess those guys are on a whole other plane of existence, and there isn't much they can teach me right now.

I did watch some of the ASPCA Mclay finals, and like I said, that was really nice riding.
To carry on with the metaphor, you aren't going to get much useful instruction on street driving by watching a formula 1 driver.
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post #20 of 28 Old 06-18-2020, 11:10 AM
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You have to separate the showing classes from the showjumping classes if you're interested in style.
The hunter/jumper showing classes seen in North America don't really exist anywhere else - there are some similar classes being introduced in Europe now but still in their infancy.

A lot of the riders who are champions in the hunter jumper showing classes wouldn't make the grade in showjumping - the reverse is also true.

Going back some years the UK had a horse that competed successfully at top level, including the Olympics, that always stuck in a few bucks during the round - it didn't seem to slow him down any! He was an unlikely looking jumping horse, a real cob type that stood at barely 16 hands

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