An American thoroughbred in Europe - Page 33 - The Horse Forum
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post #321 of 336 Old 08-30-2019, 11:07 AM
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@gottatrot


But I almost feel like it's the opposite of what people say. They talk about horses that have missed steps, or holes in their training. So they say you should restart the horse. To me it's not like you're starting over from the beginning and filling in the gaps, it's more like you're unbuilding the horse. Before you give him new information such as trust and calmness, you have to get rid of the fear, the anger, the reactions to pain or poor handling.

The horse will already have the information he's been given. You can't start from scratch, because he's already got building blocks in place. He'll keep all the blocks he already has, but what you have to do is take them down and rearrange them so they make a nicer structure.

Please take these beautiful insights and stick them in a book somewhere. That was seriously well put.


"Stay ON the horse IN the arena" -my trainer.
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post #322 of 336 Old 08-30-2019, 12:43 PM
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I liked what was said about just working the horse. Lots of horses need that consistent patient work to get through to them. A lot of problems with today's horses is that most people do not have the time to work the horse as much as it needs. Now most horses are pets, not transportation.
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post #323 of 336 Old 08-30-2019, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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Grace- Interesting! No I have not taken the strengthfinder exam. Ive taken quite a few little tests but not that one. And I know! It's going to be a wild semester. Thankfully you are much closer to being done and I think will have a very promising future career

LMAO too funny!! I love that here they dont have sororities or fraternities. They're very social and people have to work together and form groups but at least for my major of introverts the social stuff isnt a MUST, so I can make time for Wonder and my friends at the stable.

Thank you for your insight and thoughtfulness I think you are very right about the mental and emotional trauma in horses. I think when horses have a rough past it takes a while to figure out and work through the issues. They are not over night fixes but ones that take place in small steps over a long period of time. It's not instant success but coming further and I think a lot of people lack the patience and dont want to look bad, so they give up. Because people can be REALLY nasty and judgmental about things they just cant understand. I think it blows people's minds when what SHOULD work DOESNT work and they just DONT get it but think they know best. And sometimes you have to use unconventional methods that are ugly for a while but then give way to something good. I think it becomes a lot less straight forward with an especially intelligent horse and I think they always carry the memory of previous treatment and experiences. I know Nick is very smart too!

I also think Ranja has softened him quite a lot. Ever since he's been turned out with her, rather than alone he's been a different horse. I dont know what changed but something changed. She's a good influence on him. And Nicolai says Ranja is more confident and self assured since she's been with Wonder.

Im really wondering too! I really think it's going to make a difference. He's in the field so I saw him trot around some (Vet encouraged movement and turnout). It is the first time EVER he looked even left and right hind! He has always had a right hind hitch, since day 1 and the vets, trainers, everybody after all the evaluations we did said it's a strength issue.
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Gottatrot- Absolutely. I really appreciate your insight and thoughtfulness! It's why I respect real horsemen and women of all disciplines with the experience and knowledge of a variety of unorthodox horses. I had never heard of it and neither had Pia, a very experienced Danish horsewoman. A real horsewoman. She is really excited to see how this works out, she says in her past she remembered very talented horses who didnt seem able to push the extra to be a GP horse and she was sure they could but something was off. She wonders if this was it. We'll see what happens! I cannot evaluate how it has affected him yet.

I entirely agree! I dont think "Starting over" works. It's learning how to work with and develop the relationship with a horse, so that they LET you in. If a horse doesnt want to do something, they really dont have to. I think with especially clever horses who have been traumatized and regardless of if they act out in anger and aggression or fear or some combination of traits, the fixes are day by day, brick by brick and happen over a long period of time. I do not think there are any quick fixes with especially traumatized horses.

I'm also really glad you're making progress with Hero too! I really think with these types of horse's it's day by day, brick by brick addressing the issues and having faith that it will eventually come. And always people will think they know best and could do a better job when reality is they'd probably make the situation worse and throw the horse away. These kinds in the wrong hands are easy to make unridable and dangerous or make the trauma and bad behavior way worse. It's really addressing the mind and I have a hard time describing that but reading energy, body language and changing the way a horse thinks about it in the small steps.

I've had people tell me if I had thrown Wonder in a field for a year there wouldnt be problems or if nothing was asked of him or if I just did A, B,C and I was like they dont get this horse or situation at all or people thought the problem with Wonder is how hot he is. And I was like if only how hot he is was the issue. They dont get the build up of emotional and psychological defenses he had or how strong, intelligent and willful Wonder is. He is the strongest horse Ive ever ridden and Nicolai who was an international GP rider said the same. He's been run off with on Wonder. He's so strong and when a horse is clever, willful and strong there is nothing a rider can do, regardless of skill, strength or anything else.

I do not think this spermatic cord thing was the whole problem. I think there were a lot of parts and I think quite a significant amount is Wonder's high intelligence, power, strong will and past.

But I really like how you think, it's not starting from scratch but taking the blocks already there, taking them down and rearranging them in a better way. I really like that! I agree with Grace, publish that insight! That is gold!
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knave- Keno sounds like an interesting horse with an interesting situation. Sometimes it amazes me the methods that work on different horses. Some horses are just one of a kind or so unorthodox, it really takes a special person to work through it. And some cant be saved. I have one I gave up on as well because he was mean spirited and very nearly kicked my head in after months of good behavior. Then a bunch of people rode him and all had the same problems.
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whisperbaby22- I agree. I think the problem is most riders and trainers are not really horsemen and women. They have surface knowledge but not deep knowledge and they dont really know or understand horses. And most people dont know the difference or care to.

Christopher Bartle said the problem today is people just go out to ride their horses but they dont really understand horses. In the old days people used to have to farm and work with horses, so they had to be horsemen and women and get the best from their horses and know how they work and think to be productive and successful. Today horsemanship isnt really a skill people care to learn.

I also think people get frustrated when they dont have instant success and do not have enough knowledge or faith in the process. They get scared, intimidated and think it's wrong when it isnt instantly fixed or pretty. And that just isnt so. Sometimes it gets ugly before it gets better but I also think a lot of people dont have the skill, timing or know how of how to open a can of worms and ride through it. I think most horses become challenging when asked to really do something vs just allowed to go around. I dont think it is possible to really ask for something and never have any kind of confrontation. Sometimes it is necessary to ride the fight and other times it is best to be tactful. It really depends and there is a fine line.

And truthfully most people and trainers cant really read the horse. Surface level understanding vs depth.
________

Im too exhausted to update

But Wonder is doing well, he is swollen around the sheath but he is on painkiller and anti inflammatory. He is supposed to go back to work tomorrow but I dont know. IF I ride him, which I dont think I will it will be out in the fields light hacking only at walk. The vet says movement is very important, so he is turned out and I am hand walking him. We've done some in hand and ground work because Wonder likes that. Played with a pool today and Wonder LOVES to spanish walk, he thinks he's so cool and he's gotten SO good at it. However I can tell he is sore because he isnt like a border collie. He's calm and that for Wonder usually means he hurts.

Ranja is doing really well too. I was supposed to ride her today but there was a miscommunication, so I will ride her tomorrow. She's been jumping quite a bit and she is such a nice jumper. More talented as a jumper than dressage but that is because Nicolai is riding her. He is so incredibly good. He can reach into any horse and make them want to jump and jump well. Ranja is so spooky and sensitive, most people even skilled jumpers cannot jump her but Nicolai can. It also made me smile because he and Simone said they can really tell the difference I've made in her. It means a lot. They said she is much more confident, more relaxed and stronger. Nicolai said she's a lot better to ride. And that Im a really good rider and that Im really talented and that means a lot to me. It's nice to be appreciated. They're really impressed with how Wonder has come along too and believe in him like I do. They said they look at a horse's heart and read them, not just what you see but what the horse tells you is in their spirit to do. And that is how you pick a great horse. I said, I entirely agree.

Please keep in mind this is Denmark and we'll just say they are not safety police. It's more like you want to die, go ahead. At your own risk, you are responsible. Drinking age for beer and wine is 16, for all else is 18.

Also some Magnus. He is such a playful, mischievous and sweet little cat.6+
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post #324 of 336 Old 08-31-2019, 11:45 AM
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Ha! I nearly got creamed by one such rider just last week. I live in a corner of the world that has fine aztecas, friesians and andys. A lot of stallions on the trail. Most of these guys are expert, but all this culture and money creates some wanna bes. OK, so I am just starting out and the guy on the high dollar stallion in front of me lets his horse stumble in a rut and go down. Well, accidents happen. I don't know the horse, but to my eye, what happened is that the horse jumped up and was spooked by the big vaquero saddle flapping around. If I had been 5 minutes ahead of this I would have been in a crash.

This guy had the outfit, the horse, and all of the accoutremonts, but not the knowledge to properly ground train this horse. He'd never been round penned with the saddle on and was a out of control freight train on that trail, I could see by the dust trail. I've been nervous about that trail since.
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post #325 of 336 Old 09-01-2019, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by DanteDressageNerd View Post
I feel SO old, we were playing games and I did most of them but for some I was like. Im just letting you know I cant carry an extra body of weight because my right knee is very bad (I know I need surgery on it but Wonder had surgery, so I cant afford my own). I also have chronic tendenitis in my left hip flexor, a degenerative disk in my lower back, collapsed arches, etc, etc.


Just the way you're telling this story! It's such a déjà vu! Sorry about your various ailments, and hope you can get them seen to / DIY as best as possible, and typical that the animals get surgery before we do.

Would you feel better if we all listed our various ailments? Who would like to start? Mine would take a while, but should be satisfying to compare yourself to!

Did you ever see Grumpy Old Men / Women? That's meant to be for 40+, but Brett and I watched that in our 30s and said, "Yes, that's us, where can we buy the T-shirt?"


Great to hear you're feeling good with your change of major! And hope Wonder heals up quickly!

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post #326 of 336 Old 09-03-2019, 04:49 AM Thread Starter
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whisperbaby22- Yikes!! That sounds really scary! It's like in the warm up arena where people lack the education and ability to communicate to move safely within the arena. It can lead to some bad accidents. I remember last time I showed on Dante having to watch out for people on schoolmasters who couldnt pay attention or steer, they were so busy looking at their horse's neck and scared me because I rode a horse who had been crashed into from people not paying attention and he had SO much fear of horses oncoming. The horse with the fear was 18.2h

It's a shame horsemanship and really understanding horses is no longer a value!
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Sue- haha you should hear some of my comedy but I absolutely cannot post it here or I'd be kicked off for sure way too adult and inappropriate. Would not tell the act in front of my parents.

Thank you! I really enjoy that and identify with it SO much. There are a lot of things not to understand and to get a bit grumpy about Im less dissapointed in Denmark though. Danes are not a politically correct people, they are polite but they dont let it get in the way of scientific advancement or discovery. They're a lot less egocentric and believe the way to the top is by bringing everyone up, not just themselves. They dont think in well only one person can be good and they must tear down the competition. They think well we cant both be good and make each other better.

Haha sure! You give me hope in what to look forward to! List thy ailments
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I'm pretty tired.

Yesterday we had a really good lessons and sadly no video. My friend who said she could, ended up quite sick and needed to stay home and another friend was busy. So not this week but hopefully our next lesson. I was quite sad because Wonder was so good.

Yesterday we worked on passage trot and some piaffe. More collected work which Wonder did quite well.

it was a really good lesson. We worked a lot on passage trot and some piaffe with Wonder to help him with passage. We got some forward piaffe instead of passage and Mads was like that isnt passage. Piaffe or passage, not in between. He didn't passage, passage but like trot with intro to passage. He said I'd done a good job developing Wonder and now says dont worry about what his hind legs are doing. I don't care if he tracks up, he's correct and active from behind. More forward and for piaffe, push from the legs in piaffe. Just finger touch for more on spot. Forward into collection but slow him down, activity but slow. Just the transitions between different trots and emphasize it in him. Did some half pass and shoulder in and haunches in on a circle. Walk pirouette, etc.

Did some canter. Nothing hard just Wonder stay with my seat and dont push past my hand and riding through it. Making more jump in the canter without speed. Very hard, in split second timing. If my timing was off then Wonder was a ferrari into the next city. But is nice I can ride him a bit more like a normal horse. So I have access to some of my normal tools, I couldnt use before. On Ranja I have her canter much more up and more lift in shoulder from how I use my seat. I've been told I can create extravagant paces in horses with blah movement (ex Ranja) because of the power in my core and seat and timing between my legs and hands. I am proud of that because I've worked hard to develop these skills. It's nice when it is recognized.

I told Mads some things people had said about my riding and Wonder (in US, not Dk) and he chuckled and said sounds like low level riders who will never have a GP horse. He said this will be a high level horse and this is what we need to do to get him there. Dont ride him with a low level mind set (Low level here is 3rd and below) or expectations, he said you are an upper level rider and need to enforce that expectation in yourself and in Wonder. It really meant a lot to me because Mads wont compliment or say something, unless he means it. If something is ****, he'll say it and then say how to make it better. He also doesnt dis low level riding or riders but for Wonder and I, we are headed for the GP and that is a different expectation and course. Wonder is 3rd level but Mads is more like this is one you keep out of the show ring for now and save for later. I loved the lesson, it was a lot of detail work in the trot. Wonder is getting the idea for passage and that is what will make his trot and all the exercises better.

I talked to Karla (my friend on the national team schools PSG-I1) said well yeah because Mads sees for Wonder to produce extension, he needs more work in collection. He needs the strength to help him. Karla's horse she developed has the same thing in the trot. Built for collection and now he has a brilliant extension but she said it took a ton of time. Mads said dont look at his legs the next 6 months, it's not going to be that pretty but after that it'll be something. Karla inspires me so much. She is such a nice rider with a difficult horse she made herself. She is also partially paralyzed from the waist down and yet can ride like she can. So amazing.

Vet was unconcerned about the swelling around Wonder's sheath. Said if he is happy, eating, and has no fever, not to worry. I wish we could turn him out over night, he needs movement to keep swelling down. Was also looking up and Wonder's sheath, taking pictures and someone was staring at me like pervert. What are you doing? nope. Just sending these to the vet.

I feel happy, it's a rare feeling but it is really good to have people like Karla and Mads and Simone and Nicolai that believe in me and ln Wonder. It means a lot. Most times I am not a happy person. Lots of pain and anger inside but there are moments like this where I feel happy and I feel hope.
I really like watching this horse and rider. I think the commentators are very good. I think this is quite a hard, hot horse to ride and the rider does a really nice job but I can see how hard the mare pulls and doesnt back off and how well she rides through it. A lot of horse's at this level are tense and very hard to ride. It is a different sort of horse and different sort of expectation between the low level horse and the high level horse and it is a different horse that thrives. Relaxation is always a goal but sometimes you dont get it. And it's not that this horse was trained incorrectly or bad. It's a very good rider who cant let go because the horse is pushing past her seat and aids and not backing off. You can tell the horse "knows" but it is not one of those days where she will. It's like holding back a frake train. And this is a VERY good rider to negotiate and ride through that. Very tough.

------

Some more autism stuff fascinates me they have the same hand gesture I use and describing back to me everything I want to say, especially about social blindness. I can be very perceptive in some ways and quite blind in others.

this one describes everything Ive ever wanted to tell people
This is also really true. It took me a long time to understand sarcasm and metaphors and not taking things literally and trying to figure out what expressions mean. I would read books and hear “colorful” language and go to my parents and ask what does this mean? And I remember other classmates calling me stupid because I didn’t understand. I’ve been called stupid and retarded a lot. I’ve been called a lot of things that I know weren’t true but it didn’t hurt less. Understanding facial gestures, tones and the “unwritten” social rules took a LOT of work. I like what someone says about things people just do and know instinctually, autistic people have to do manually. I also agree about copying and pasting, I did that a lot.

Yesterday I was so worn out from translating how I experience the world (pictures and sensory in my mind) to words that I was totally useless to communicate during the lesson. I was like yeah, okay.

It also blows my mind that some people actually think talking about mental illness, genuine feelings or having autism is self pitty. Im like seriously, get over yourself @ss hole. It's about explaining another view point and giving people something to think about if they care enough to think. Not a pitty party or asking for sympathy. Sometimes it's just communication. High time people can actually be honest and introspective than wear a mask because people lack dimension or reasoning.

I cant stand narrow minded, black and white thinkers who cant possibly consider another perspective other than their own. Or actually get a person's motivation for doing things. But some people only see their side and dont bother thinking because it's easier to assume than to ASK.

In general I am not a happy person and I am OKAY with that. I am quite bitter, I am angry, I am cynical. But if someone were around me, they would never see that because I dont want people to know the things I know. I dont want them to know the sort of pain I do. Why I tend to be comedic, friendly, and open. But also very shy. I have times where I hide from everyone because I dont have the energy to deal with other people's energy, my own experience of the world and then also translate it into words.

I talked to my Professor (cognition and communications) yesterday about words dont really mean much to me and it takes a lot more work for me to paint a picture in my mind but once it is there, I have a working understanding and can see it in my head. How things piece together and project many steps ahead. But it takes me more time and Im slow to learn.

I'm passionate about cognitive science and a big part of that is because of the things I have experienced that I dont want someone else to ever have to go through. I want people in general to be educated and actually understand each other, as well as how to help people who dont fit in the box understand themselves. So that everyone can be successful. I also think with autistics, it is important to let them fixate on what they're good at and not focus on making the mind balanced. Manners are essential but I think the brain is quite specialized for people on the spectrum and there will be better work success if they are allowed to fixate on their passions. Doesnt mean dont expand at all but

I also think of things in the details. I can see things other people cannot see because my brain is different and how I put pieces of a puzzle together is different. I learn things in a different order and way. I think my thinking is more bottom up than top down. Because I see things other people dont see, sometimes they call it excuses and then eventually realize I was right. And being objective in what I saw. I think I've been misunderstood a lot and I guess now I dont really care as much. People either want to understand or judge and you cant convince a judger to understand, so why waste time on them? And that is something I really like about Denmark, people aim to understand rather than judge. The idea is not that one can only succeed at another's expense. It's that in order to succeed, we need to see everyone do well and make each other better. That is the biggest difference I notice. Other thing is people dont go well I have an opinion, so therefore I am right. It is I have an opinion, what do you think?

Last edited by DanteDressageNerd; 09-03-2019 at 05:03 AM.
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post #327 of 336 Old 09-06-2019, 05:39 AM
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Thank you! I really enjoy that and identify with it SO much. There are a lot of things not to understand and to get a bit grumpy about Im less dissapointed in Denmark though. Danes are not a politically correct people, they are polite but they dont let it get in the way of scientific advancement or discovery. They're a lot less egocentric and believe the way to the top is by bringing everyone up, not just themselves. They dont think in well only one person can be good and they must tear down the competition. They think well we cant both be good and make each other better.
I much prefer that teamwork philosophy to the "hooray for me, to hell with everybody else" attitude of extreme capitalism. I miss it, and still feel very European.


Quote:
Haha sure! You give me hope in what to look forward to! List thy ailments
It's not as bad as I thought it would be, actually! In my late 20s I already had a lumbar injury and a left knee injury from horse riding accidents - the former still fine if I do regular Pilates, the latter just weather forecasts every now and then. And if people think that should put a person off horses, I like to point out that footballers and tennis players tend to have more injuries than I had, on the verge of 30.

The back injury simply needs even more TLC and preventative exercise as I have gotten older - it's easier to re-injure if I'm not careful / proactive with exercise and posture.

I kind of started really feeling the arthritis in my finger joints in my early 40s, but for some reason it doesn't bother me as much now I'm in my late 40s - there seems to be some regenerative capacity. We were mid house build when I really felt that the worst. The house we live in now never gets cold; this is likely a factor. It was 20 degrees C in here this morning and I was amazed to see that the fields outside were white with a late frost. The house sucks up the sun in winter and stores it all night in its thermal mass. Hooray for using your own head to design something better than what "experts" will make for you. You've got an excellent head on your shoulders, @DanteDressageNerd , and you will find that this will be so much in your advantage if you use that brain of yours to make good life decisions, and to design methods for yourself for all sorts of applications. My education did get me professional work I really enjoyed (before we down-shifted and became quasi-hippies), but it has been even more valuable in terms of looking critically at how I live my life, and coming up with solutions to problems. My health has really benefitted, both physically and mentally/emotionally; and I've always lived quite differently to the mainstream - even more so now. A lot of people dream about doing different things from the masses; we've gone and done it, and you too will find it easier to do your own thing and find happiness, because like us you're already an outlier, and because you are a deep thinker.

Back to ailments. Grey hair isn't really an ailment, and there's these bottles you can get in the supermarket so you can have any hair colour you want. The skin gets a bit wrinklier and more damaged - especially here in Australia with that UV - but we think elephants are beautiful, with all their wrinkles, and why the double standard, say I. And anyway, in our mid-40s we were losing our lens elasticity, so that this probably helped us not to see the little things like extra wrinkles and broken capillaries etc - sort of like a soft focus lens! But because we love reading and it was getting ridiculous, we both got reading glasses earlier this year. It's not a great hardship.

I didn't notice any loss of fitness until around 40, and it's easier to lose fitness now and harder to get it back, but we just made it a priority, because it underpins health and also we love hiking as a recreation. That's why you thought we were on holidays - because we made a concerted effort to get back into serious walking, after recovering from a bad bout of flu that had us on bed rest for two weeks! Anyway, we still are so much fitter than the average 25-year-old.

Girl stuff (and this is where sensitive people need to skip the paragraph): I was rather shocked to find I had hit menopause a decade earlier than average, in my early 40s. But, it had nothing to do with healthy lifestyle, turns out it runs in families. Some women have surgical menopauses in their 20s and 30s due to ovarian cancer / ovarian cancer risk, and the way that is managed is by fairly specific HRT, which I went on - not the standard treatment they tend to give to 50+, but just enough to stop your girl bits from shrivelling up, which they otherwise can do. For me, that's a half-tablet only each day of the lowest-dose contraceptive pill on the market, plus a little transdermal testosterone - not enough to grow a beard or get acne, just enough to address the deficit from not making enough of my own anymore. Testosterone levels halve in women between ages 20 and 40 and as this is a major hormone for muscle building, muscle tone, motivation to exercise, libido and general get-up-and-go, doctors are starting to re-think HRT to include testosterone. I was a self-volunteered guinea pig for that, because the biggest issues I had with the hormonal drop were that I had a few months where I could barely get out of bed, I just felt so exhausted all the time; and I was feeling hot and cold all the time, plus I could no longer remember what a libido felt like, and was getting atrophy of the vagina and breasts. HRT completely turned that around, and within a fortnight. We kept tweaking it, basically to less and less - I don't feel the need to be on pregnancy-simulating female hormone levels, as per birth control pill, and it was giving me one size up breasts compared to normal for me, so in the end I just split the pills down the middle with a nail file to halve my dose, and now everything is the size it was before, and works pretty much as it did before, and being in my body feels very much like it did in my 20s and 30s.

The body does learn to compensate, and makes steroid hormones in other places than the ovaries, but I can taper down the doses again if necessary, and it's pretty simple to work out if that's necessary, because with female hormones, you won't fit in your bra if you're getting more than you used to, and with testosterone you'll break out in spots and, if that doesn't warn you enough, get darker, thicker body hair than normal.

It's kind of funny to deconstruct your life in hormonal terms: "Ah, so this one made me feel like this and did XYZ to my body! And that one was responsible for that!"

Anyway, the take-home message is, I would tell my younger self not to worry about being in your 30s or 40s or pushing 50; I think the media and popular culture give a very unbalanced view of what that is really like. I feel very good most of the time, and am enjoying life more than ever.


SueC is time travelling.

Last edited by SueC; 09-06-2019 at 05:57 AM.
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post #328 of 336 Old 09-06-2019, 05:41 AM
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(I had to chop this reply up because I had vastly exceeded the standard emoji allowance of 14 per post...)

I'm glad you are enjoying your riding, and that Wonder continues to learn and develop with you. It's nice to follow your progress. Your trainer sounds great - and he's totally right that you have to believe in yourself and your horse, and that most of the criticisms come from people who actually have no idea. This is true not just for riding, as you have probably already discovered yourself on various front. It's funny that people performing at average levels tend to have more confidence than people performing at higher levels, and often feel they "know better" and tell you so.

Karla also sounds amazing. Seems you are meeting some really lovely people in Denmark!

You could have some fun with the "What are you doing?" people when you take medical photos of your horse's boy bits - pretend you are taking pictures to send to a niche magazine! That'll stop'em in their tracks!


Quote:
I feel happy, it's a rare feeling but it is really good to have people like Karla and Mads and Simone and Nicolai that believe in me and ln Wonder. It means a lot. Most times I am not a happy person. Lots of pain and anger inside but there are moments like this where I feel happy and I feel hope.
If you're anything like Brett and me - also outliers - then your 20s will be your most challenging and lonely time, but you will accrue real friends cumulatively, as you are now, and become more confident in your right to exist etc. We do need other people because we are social creatures, but this is often hard for people who definitely aren't sheep, early on in life. What happens as life progresses is that you find more black sheep, more like you! And you might even marry one!

I'm enjoying your autism explorations, clips etc. We're not neurotypical either, and it's interesting to see similarities and differences. Brett and I both get extra annoyed by tags in clothing, seeds in socks etc - a far bigger deal than for typical people. Also we can't listen to music when eating, or we won't be able to taste the food like we want to. Things like that. We also get deeply into our areas of interest, which are quite wide as well, so we really wouldn't get bored if we had 1000 years to live, and can't understand how anyone does. Our brains are very interactive and very much on, a lot of the time. We enjoy the particular brains we have, more so now than earlier on in our lives. And of course there is neuroplasticity - the ability to keep learning new things, and to make new synaptic connections, all your life if you actually use your brain. Brains and muscles have in common that if you don't exercise them properly, they turn into custard...


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I can be very perceptive in some ways and quite blind in others.
And this is also true for neurotypical people, of course. There's so much they don't see, either, but unfortunately often they don't understand what they are missing, while autistic/Aspie people are constantly reminded what they are missing!

It's a different perspective. And if you're motivated to learn, you can learn the missing stuff, which is great. And some of it, I don't want to learn, like being two-faced, or thinking one thing and saying another, and not being honest.


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This is also really true. It took me a long time to understand sarcasm and metaphors and not taking things literally and trying to figure out what expressions mean.
While neither of us had an issue with sarcasm and metaphors, we both had parts of our brains very much amused by the difference between literal meanings, and more complex meanings. We're rather pedantic, and have fun being so.


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I would read books and hear “colorful” language and go to my parents and ask what does this mean? And I remember other classmates calling me stupid because I didn’t understand. I’ve been called stupid and retarded a lot. I’ve been called a lot of things that I know weren’t true but it didn’t hurt less.
Yeah, I was pretty innocent for a long time, but it's hard to know how much of that was genetic, and how much that I didn't have healthy social modelling or honest discussion of things in my family of origin. I remember, for instance, hearing the song Let's Go To Bed when I was eleven, and thinking, "Yeah, I like sleeping too!" But I kind of think that's preferable to the early sexualisation of children these days - I sort of think it's nice to have a childhood.

I also remember two jokes our Biology teacher told us when I was 15. One was, "Why does Humpty Dumpty no longer fall off the wall?" The answer to that was, "Because now he has a girlfriend, and he's always knocking her off." And the whole class except me was laughing, and I was looking around going, "What's so funny about him pushing his girlfriend off the wall? That's really mean!" Of course, I was ESL and "knocking someone off" was a colloquialism I was unfamiliar with until someone explained it to me!

His other joke I got just fine, and I'll share it with you because I think it's hilarious: "How many condoms can you make from a used car tyre? ...365 if it's a Goodyear."


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Understanding facial gestures, tones and the “unwritten” social rules took a LOT of work. I like what someone says about things people just do and know instinctually, autistic people have to do manually. I also agree about copying and pasting, I did that a lot.
I had to copy and paste a lot because I didn't see appropriate behaviours modelled in my family of origin very much. I wanted to get on with people, and you're not going to if you follow your parents' examples and yell at other people and think they should be able to read your mind, or you hit people who think differently from yourself, or who are crying because distressed; or if the world is always revolving around you, etc. So early on, I was actively looking out for adults whose behaviour I liked, to learn from. Thankfully, they were around, especially in the form of my super-nice, super-warm, very accomplished Year 1/2 teacher; also strangers on buses! Also reading books - novels which examined human behaviour, the human experience; biographies by nice people - e.g. James Herriot's All Creatures Great And Small. I liked many of his values, from childhood! I was drawn to people like that, and to characters who acted honourably.

But really, all early human socialisation is monkey see - monkey do. I think you just have to do it more consciously if you have autism, or if the monkeys in your first household aren't the best role models. That makes you more aware of the process, and can lead you to question, "But is that really me, or am I acting?" It's you if you intellectually and emotionally desire to behave in certain ways, and to be a particular sort of person. We all try out roles, and some of them stick - just most people do it before they are particularly conscious of it, and perhaps never get that aware of it. The nice thing is that if you're aware of it, you have an easier time becoming the kind of person you would like to be.


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It also blows my mind that some people actually think talking about mental illness, genuine feelings or having autism is self pitty. Im like seriously, get over yourself @ss hole. It's about explaining another view point and giving people something to think about if they care enough to think. Not a pitty party or asking for sympathy. Sometimes it's just communication. High time people can actually be honest and introspective than wear a mask because people lack dimension or reasoning.
Yeah, great points! It's harder for typical people, and especially conformists, prone to peer pressure, media pressure etc, to understand that they have choices over who they are and what they do and how much they can grow, and a lot of typical people are actually quite undifferentiated, morally, intellectually, emotionally. Yet paradoxically, the confidence (of safety in numbers and in conformity) is usually with them, until the non-neurotypical have lived enough life to see that this is the case.


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I cant stand narrow minded, black and white thinkers who cant possibly consider another perspective other than their own. Or actually get a person's motivation for doing things. But some people only see their side and dont bother thinking because it's easier to assume than to ASK.
So you tell me, which is the real disability?

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post #329 of 336 Old 09-06-2019, 06:12 AM
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And a little PS on this:

Quote:
I would read books and hear “colorful” language and go to my parents and ask what does this mean? And I remember other classmates calling me stupid because I didn’t understand. I’ve been called stupid and retarded a lot. I’ve been called a lot of things that I know weren’t true but it didn’t hurt less.


A few months ago, @Knave sent me a song that she thought would make a good fit for what I had experienced, and she was 100% spot on. It was such a good fit, I cried listening to it, and still tear up when I hear it. It's a great anthem, and in case you don't know it yet, I want to pass it on to you.


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post #330 of 336 Old 09-13-2019, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
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Sue I'll respond appropriately in good time! We have talked and had good talks

University is going really well. I LOVE it. Maybe considering eventually going for a PHD, I LOVE this and want to get into research.

What is consciousness? How do we define perception? Can we accept our perception as true? To what degree to human's synchronize with one another when engaging in conversation?

Where is the line between arrogant and confident?

My Professor asked me if Id be interested in writing a real scientific, published paper and I accepted. Dont know if the offer is still on but Im scared. Going to be a real challenge using real scientific data.

Just updating on what's going on

Surgery has made a HUGE difference, it's going to take time to see the full scope of the difference it has made but his hind end is TOTALLY different in the trot and it's going to continue to change a lot. He is really starting to move side to side in his back and able to bring his hind legs under him in a way he never could. However as a consequence he is also even BOUNCIER than before and he was REALLY bouncy. I have to grab the ring of my surcingle sometimes to sit the trot because it is SO big and so rough. His canter isnt so rough but the trot is honestly the most uncomfortable trot I have ever ridden in my life. I DONT know why it is so awful but it makes Dante or Magellan or any of those horses feel like what I imagine a flying carpet feels like.

Wonder hasnt had turnout last few days because it has been non stop rain and mud fields. So we've had a lot of free walk only rides. yestreday we managed to hack and Wonder was quite explosive we galloped and played in the field. Just making it fun without pressure. I love that I can do that now. A few months ago, I really think we both would have ended up dead because he is such an intense, willful personality he doesnt know how to back off and listen. Even for safety hence why he has bolted and crashed through a fence. His hoof is healing beautifully. He actually has great feet and could stay sound barefoot but he has prior injuries and needs the support and structure from the shoes for longevity. Farrier said basically barefoot is best for the hoof but not necessarily the structure of the horse.

Saddle, Wonder needs a new and customized saddle. It is only 100usd extra. So We still have time until we get it. Problem is Wonder has a very small saddle placement, so need a smaller saddle and I get so stunned when I'm called a tiny girl and a small girl. Especially because most of my life I've been described as big or fat or built like a brick sh*t house. So to be described as a tiny girl who doesnt need an american size saddle. I was like what? What do you mean Im a tiny girl? Was just strange to hear

Also Ranja. Took saddle off because it wasnt sitting right on her and making her unhappy. Ranja is basically like riding a snake. Her evasion is go on 4 tracks, she was quite angry with me when I corrected her lol.


Even though Ranja is a jumper, she actually doesnt have
a lead change which is something her Dad asked me to put into her because she usually cross fires into a change. I think in some ways Ranja is easier and in others harder in the change. You have to ride it really precisely and be spot on not just in timing but also really have that outside rein to support her through. But she stays in rhythm. Vs Wonder tends to push past my seat and rush into the change pushing down on the forehand like WOO HOO we did it and Im like yeah that's great. Can you remember Im here?

Walk to counter canter. Because Ranja is a snake and is difficult to ride straight and through with her body all going in one direction. Counter canter is REALLY essential, especially for improving the mechanics of her canter. She has quite a down canter that need more lift

Some Wonder undersaddle after surgery

Will get proper trot video of us seriously riding hopefully soon. He's FINALLY EVEN behind and actually swinging through his back and his legs. The difference is AMAZING! Im so excited. I actually think with time we could get 7s and 8s on his extended trot which before I was like well it's just always going to be his weak spot and we'll focus on collective marks which is where he'll excel. I still think piaffe, passage, pirouette will be where he scores best. I think he'll do well in half pass and laterals too. But he can extend and move through his body in a way he never has before.

I would REALLY like a saddle. I feel like I cannot organize or use myself correctly. I really need support, his trot is AWFUL. Like out of 100s horse I've ridden, even horses whose trots I thought were so uncomfortable are WAY more comfortable than Wonder's. It is awful lol. But I cant use my leg well enough and with a horse like Wonder or Ranja where they're quite spicy you NEED leg. I feel like I use way more leg on a hot horse than a dull one. If a horse is dull I dont want to use leg, on a horse that is overly forward I use a lot of leg to organize and bring the back up. It's hard to explain but I use a lot more leg organizing a hot horse than I do a dull one. I often say how I can tell how hot a horse is, is partially the tension in the body and how the rider uses the legs. I notice a lot of amateurs are afraid to use leg on a horse they feel is overly reactive and Im like you have to use leg and be effective with it. That's how to effectively ride and bring down a hot horse. When in doubt use leg

It's also interesting to me because Im realizing a lot of people only see the surface but dont see the depth. Like they cant see why something is happening or degree of skill. It's amazing to me the extent that Im just unaware.

Anyways other reason I really want a saddle is so I can post trot while Wonder learns to use his new body and muscle up.

I have also lost a bit of weight. I weigh 136lbs at 5'7 and have a 24-25in waist. I am trying to eat more. I actually add egg to my coffee and that seems to help. I dont especially enjoy eating, so I kinda just eat to stay alive. And I dont have a spare money atm, so it sort of saves me money. I also almost never eat out and dont have an alcohol habit. I EAT, I just dont eat a lot. Trying to up fats some too.

Next lesson will likely be next Monday, not the coming one which makes me sad. I hoped this Monday but cant get enough people on board for him to come to us that day. Something to understand also is our training goal is not to show a level each year, it's overall bringing Wonder to the GP. So we dont focus strictly on meeting criteria of a certain level. Our training goals are overall what brings this horse to meet that criteria and will bring him to the GP. Which is why we probably wont show until Wonder is ready to walk into PSG. It is why we work on things like piaffe and passage in our lessons and not just well he needs to be more relaxed or he needs to be more supple. It's like well we're working on that but also know to get that and the rhythm and movement through the back he is one that needs the piaffe/passage. PLUS he's schooling medium. So it's the time for that.
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