Bandit, Cowboy & bsms...muddling through together - Page 187 - The Horse Forum
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post #1861 of 2027 Old 05-25-2019, 06:25 AM
Join Date: Jun 2011
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We call it “chicken tv” @bsms

I miss all my animals when I’m on the road for work, but I find I really crave the time catching up with “my girls” and hearing all their little stories in the morning when I’m doing chores.
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post #1862 of 2027 Old 05-25-2019, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry for the rant that follows

My foot is getting better @SueC provided I don't wear anything with an arch support. An insole with arch support will have my foot aching within 2 days. I know because I just ops checked it again...stupid me! The medical people and Dr Scholl all say the best thing for plantar fasciitis is arch support, and that is what correlates best to my foot getting sore. It feeds my increasing distrust of experts. And my belief that most things biological are far more complex than we realize.

-----------------rant concerning experts and diet follows-------------------

My diet, so far at least, is going well. I've lost 4 lbs in 3 weeks, so it certainly isn't an extreme diet. After some morning headaches the first few days, my body got used to it and I now have no problem doing all my eating between noon and 6 PM. I find I am eating less. Probably 2/3 as much as before. And not missing the difference. I can feel hunger pangs by 10 AM but went past 1 to eat yesterday because I was busy and just didn't think about it. But it will take months to decide if this really works for me.

If nothing else, it is the easiest approach to dieting I've tried. No rules about what to eat, or how much. But I am finding I don't crave sweet things like I did. And as a long time Diet Coke addict, drinking 6-8 cans a day...I'm down to 1-2 cans a day, and may end up kicking the habit just because I don't want to drink it as much. Drinking more water and tea just because it is what I find myself wanting to drink. If kicking the Diet Coke habit is the only result of the diet I'm trying, it will be worth it.

I think there really is something to the idea that weight issues are as much about cravings versus being hungry. That those of us struggling with weight do so because our bodies have hormonal cravings instead of actual hunger, and spending time actually hungry adjusts our hormones and thus affect what things we want to eat (or drink) - and how much. It is at least an intriguing concept for someone who was a very fat baby and who has struggled with weight for 60 years!

I came across this the other day:

"Broadly speaking, we eat a lot more than we used to: The average American consumed 2,481 calories a day in 2010, about 23% more than in 1970...

Nearly half of those calories come from just two food groups: flours and grains (581 calories, or 23.4%) and fats and oils (575, or 23.2%), up from a combined 37.3% in 1970. Meats, dairy and sweeteners provide smaller shares of our daily caloric intake than they did four decades ago; then again, so do fruits and vegetables (7.9% in 2010 versus 9.2% in 1970)...

...Most of the fats we consume are in the form of vegetable oils: soybean, corn, canola and other oils used as ingredients or in which foods are cooked.

It explains a lot - if we consume 23% more calories than in 1970, we would expect to look around and see a lot more overweight people - and yet it doesn't answer WHY we eat more. There is an interesting (to me) discussion of genetics here:

Researchers Learn More About Complex Genetic Causes of Obesity |

It includes a full discussion of this:

"In addition, IRS1 variant A was inhibiting the expansion of fat tissue. With no place to go, more fat was hanging around in the blood, causing health issues. On the other hand, those with IRS1 variant B were able to easily expand their fat tissue. So they were a little chubbier because the fats in the blood went where they belonged — into fat."

That might explain why my aunts and uncles all got fat and yet lived into their late 80s or 90s. However, the article also mentions this:

"Eventually, analysis of DNA from the Pima suggested that they have variations on certain chromosomes that are linked to fatness. Thanks to their genetic inheritance, their bodies are storing away calories, anticipating a famine that never comes.

We can’t change our genes, but science is learning that we can influence how they affect our health...

The article mentions it as something like a curse: If you have a thrifty gene, you are very likely to end up fat. But maybe this sentence reveals something: "anticipating a famine that never comes." Maybe those of us who can gain weight by breathing deeply while passing a bakery need to experience some "famine".

Sorry for the rant, and I don't know how much of what I've written is actually true. I will admit I get ****ed when slender people tell me I lack willpower when I have enough willpower to run in 100 degree heat, or to have been on strict diets many times in my life. I've worked to control my weight and with some success. I'm certainly not huge. My build now is positively slender compared to what I looked like at 10 years old! But...what if the diet advice I've had from the government and doctors for the last 50 years - "calories in, calories out" - has been fundamentally wrong?

Riders ask "How?" Horsemen ask "Why?"
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post #1863 of 2027 Old 05-25-2019, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: southern Arizona
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Originally Posted by egrogan View Post
We call it “chicken tv” @bsms
I think having animals around us, including outdoor animals like chickens, may add some sanity to our lives. "Chicken TV" isn't what I would want to watch for 6 hours - and neither is any TV - but “chicken tv” may add something to our lives, much in the way hanging out with horses can. I think it adds some balance to our lives.
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Riders ask "How?" Horsemen ask "Why?"
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post #1864 of 2027 Old 05-25-2019, 12:07 PM
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I don’t think you lack willpower. I think, like your research shows, people are made differently. I don’t think I could run in 100 degrees, and I know I couldn’t follow the diet you are on. My friend told me about it too, but the whole thought just makes me panicky.

I get that shaky, I am going to pass out, feeling when I don’t eat or eat the wrong thing. I very much make sure I’ve eaten some protein before I go do anything that will keep me away from the house. Working I take protein powder mixed, and I drink it around 9ish so that I can manage until lunch, and of course I eat breakfast.

I seem to do better in the afternoons, but mornings I guess my body is touchy about it. I have had that happen in the afternoon, but not commonly.

We did a diet together for a month. My husband lost 30 pounds, and I gained it! It was crazy how differently we reacted. Gaining is good for me though, and losing for him. He had tried several before, to the point of half starving himself, but they never did any good and I didn’t approve of the ideas. This one I did though. I said “Let’s not eat anything processed for a month.”

I was serious about it too, and he followed suite. We both were so much healthier.
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Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you? - Balaam’s Donkey
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post #1865 of 2027 Old 05-25-2019, 01:42 PM
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There is a lot of focus on the benefits of intermitten fasting. While that word usually applies to eating one day, not the next, etc. I do agree with you that going for extended hours without eating is good for the human body. I think you are on to something when you say that it resets your body to recognize hunger, verses cravings. The old idea of eating many small meals does not work for a person, like me, who has an unhealthy mental relationship with food, and overeating. The 'gaps' between meals need to be long enough to have some substance in and of themselves, mentally.
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post #1866 of 2027 Old 05-25-2019, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tinyliny View Post
...a person, like me, who has an unhealthy mental relationship with food, and overeating...
That describes me, too. Not my sister, though we were raised in the same home. I'm finding at around 8 pm, I'll have some cravings for food. I just have to ignore them and the cravings go away around 9 pm. And I'm then good to go through noon the next day. So my craving food is something not based on need. It starts to make sense though in terms of habit - my wife and I often have snacked on a small cup of ice cream around then - or maybe in terms of hormone, insulin, or blood sugar, or...something not related to actual hunger.

It is 11 AM. I rode Bandit in his boots for half an hour, then led him thru the neighborhood and desert for 40 minutes. Plenty of uneven ground to get him used to how to move his feet with boots on. At 11 AM, after exercise, I feel a little hungry. But zero "craving". If I was busy, I could go until 5 pm without much effort. I'd be genuinely hungry by then, though!

My sister never had a weight problem. I've always had one. Genes are probably part of it. But with MY genes, maybe I need to experience some degree of hunger to get past the cravings.

There is also some interesting research suggesting the sweetness in Diet Coke can fool our bodies, and maybe - the research so far was done in mice - that the acid in Diet Coke affects the bacteria in our guts, and that in turn affects how our body digests food. My hungry times seems to be resetting how my body tastes "sweet". If the only thing this does is get me off of drinking 6-8 Diet Cokes a day, my wallet, teeth and gut bacteria may all thank me! Water & tea would be sooooo much better for me!

PS: Back to horses. I recently bought a Cold Steel "Recon 1" knife. It is 5 3/8 inches long closed. It was in my back pocket (folded!) all ride long and I never felt it. I think it is safe to say this oddball western rider just doesn't ride much on his pockets. Internet picture:

Riders ask "How?" Horsemen ask "Why?"

Last edited by bsms; 05-25-2019 at 02:26 PM.
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post #1867 of 2027 Old 05-25-2019, 02:53 PM
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I have breakfast around 7 am, so I eat dinner around 4 or 5 the evening before. That's just what I am comfortable with. I do have to be firm when asked to dinner at 8. Saying that I am on medication and can only have tea helps. But so many people eat such a large meal before bed. That is part of the problem.
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post #1868 of 2027 Old 05-25-2019, 02:56 PM
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you are SO not overweight, @bsms !!! I'd LOVE to be as trim as you.
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post #1869 of 2027 Old 05-25-2019, 07:27 PM
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That knife looks like it could come in handy on the trail.

Maybe one of the biggest problems with dieting is that it's like horse training. So many people are trying to fit generalized ideas and solutions on individuals, but everyone is different. It doesn't work to follow everything a certain guru trainer says, because what might work for one horse won't work for another. Same with diet programs. Everyone needs to find out what works for them.

I think it must be healthy for everyone to understand and recognize what hunger feels like. Even for thin people, this can be a problem. I've mentioned before that since I have dealt with anorexia, I trained my mind to not recognize hunger, and so when my stomach cramps, or I feel woozy, tired and have no energy, my first thoughts are that I'm getting sick or need to rest, not that I need food.

I also was a Diet Coke drinker, for many years. My mom was always trying to get me to quit, talking about the research you discussed that the sweetness could be fooling our bodies and causing obesity. I'd always laugh at her and ask her if she thought I needed to lose weight. But I tried quitting several years ago, sort of on a whim, and I discovered that the artificial sweeteners had apparently been making me irritable. I hadn't realized it, but I could tell my mood was much more stable when I was off the diet pop. Now I only drink it rarely.

My dad has been doing intermittent fasting for awhile, on Mondays. My mom complains that he just eats double on Tuesday, but he is looking good and feels healthy. He's 83 and has been out clamming on the beach a couple times this week.
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post #1870 of 2027 Old 05-26-2019, 07:55 AM
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I have been following that fat loss discussion with interest and wanted to present you with a weird case study: Me. At least, according to a GP I talked about it once, I'm " of those, a friend of mine is doing a study on your sort up in Perth, would you like to be a subject?" I'd have jumped at it had I lived in Perth, but an 800km round trip on a regular basis was going to be too tough.

Basically, I've observed, all of my life but even more so towards middle age, that I can't readily access my fat reserves (/ possibly my glycogen reserves) for extra calories if I'm sedentary or only lightly active and skipping food during such low levels of activity. I've never been able to do the 24-hour famine at school, etc. What happens when I fast during low activity levels is that I get hypoglycaemia symptoms: I feel weak, get nauseated, trembly, experience brain fog and coordination problems, and more often than not, since my 30s, end up with a shocking migraine on top of the rest of it. So, it's important for me to eat about 5 times a day, healthy stuff and with bits of quality protein throughout, when I'm not super-active - basically to graze - and that's how I stay level.

I've had blood tests during those episodes and they confirmed I was borderline hypoglycaemic when that happens. We checked out my pancreatic function, but that was ostensibly normal - I'm not diabetic, and not pre-diabetic. Still, another thing that happens to me that doesn't seem to happen to most people is that I really can't tolerate high levels of sugar, especially on an empty stomach. They actually taste disgusting to me - it makes me feel ill to contemplate eating sugary icing, the same way it makes me feel ill to contemplate eating a lump of lard. I'm sure that's not just a mental thing, but that it's rooted in physiology - my body is saying, "Don't do this, it's not good for you." ...which is not the same as, for instance, not liking the taste of pineapple or of stuffed capsicum - I could make myself eat these things if nothing else was available, and am pretty sure I wouldn't get in too much trouble as a result.

A few years ago, we bought some commercial iced coffees at a mall coffee chain, and I had a disgust response at the sky-high level of sugar in my drink. It was at least twice as sweet as the already over-sweetened dairy drinks sold in cartons - it was really shocking. But, I was also really thirsty, and really annoyed to have spent $5 on a drink that my body was saying it didn't want. I said to Brett, "I'll drink it because it's a waste of money and resources to throw it away, but never again, I swear!" And I drank the stuff - it took me about 10 minutes to force myself to do it - and when I got up, I nearly blacked out, broke out in a cold sweat, and felt like I was spinning. I could not walk in a straight line. My doctor thinks it was hypoglycaemia brought on by an emergency response by the pancreas to ridiculously high sugar levels - basically crashing the sugar levels down trying to stop them from spiking. He said, "How convenient that you have a body that's telling you to avoid this rubbish, rather than craving it!" I've learnt that I will never eat or drink anything over-sugary again, no matter that it's already bought or who bought it...

So to function optimally, I graze - eat about five times a day, and not huge amounts at a time, generally - and try to include quality protein at each meal. During low activity levels, I will get into trouble if I do not pay attention to this.

Yet during moderate to strenuous exercise, I never get these symptoms, and I also know my body is accessing the fat reserves then (as well as the glycogen), because I can always feel the difference in the pinch test over the abdomen after half a day of intense uphill-downhill bushwalking. The big question, and the one that researcher was trying to find out, is why I can access fat reserves fine in those situations, but not when my body isn't under significant load.

What this means, in practical terms, is that I'm the sort of person who'd have great trouble getting rid of fat by fasting or by restricting calorie intake - my metabolic rate drops if I don't graze - I'm the sort who needs to exercise it off.

And that's what I've quite spontaneously done most of my life - felt the need to move. I was also a great fidget as a young person. Our national treasure, Dr Karl, has shown why and how fidgeting helps keep people trim:

...basically, I'm a bit like a highly strung horse. I started out underweight as a child and with failure to thrive, and didn't come out of childhood with many fat cells. How much of that was growing up wired by cPTSD is speculation, but I'm sure it played a role.

I am too asleep to edit this, and check if I've drifted off course or said incoherent things - and I know there'll be things I've forgotten. I'll try again tomorrow!
I'm actually falling asleep... Late night last night, and just had dinner, and much blood has been requisitioned by my stomach. I hope this post makes sense!

But anyway, fasting works for some people and not for others. Lots of people at Brett's workplace are doing calorie restriction for at least a few days each week and are mostly having good results, losing around half a kilogram a week, which is great if you're trying to kick out the fat in a sustainable manner.

One complicating factor is the idea that "At 40, you get to choose between your face and your posterior." Well, for me, my face and the round thing that wants to nest around my navel - the posterior never puts on weight.

And while we're on this, isn't it interesting how this abdominal fat distribution pattern is a bit like the Cushings pattern in humans.
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