My Journey in Becoming a Strong Leader - Page 465 - The Horse Forum
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post #4641 of 5347 Old 11-04-2016, 09:57 PM
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How many more pages of saddle fit do we need? Info & opinions have been presented to hoofpic. Seems like he has made up his mind about saddle how about trying to move on witha new topic & with the riding....?

There are Horse Crazy People,then there is Crazy People with horses...Know the Difference !!
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post #4642 of 5347 Old 11-04-2016, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
I learn better with less lessons, then time on my own to practice what I learned on my own in my own time. ... time goes by so fast that often you don't realize how short of time in between lessons you have to practice what you learned.
I mean, to each their own, but I've never had problems practicing between two or three lessons a week?
You take a lesson, practice the next day or the day after that (or both), then you take another lesson (which may be on the same thing you were working on, or might be on something else entirely). I get needing some time for a lesson to sink in, but does it really take a whole week for you to process what you learned and apply it? Also, it's not all about learning, it's also about having your instructor there to correct your equitation and provide feedback on your riding. You improve much quicker with someone there to remind you to put your shoulders back or keep your chin up or push your leg back, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
Okay, I agree with @paintedpastures and think we've talked saddle fit to death and should move on, but also: isn't this saddle super not level? It looks like it's pitched way forward, which would probably make @Hoofpic pitch way forward (and then over-lean back to compensate) and then put more pressure on the shoulder/withers (great source that explains what I'm saying). Shouldn't he have some sort of front bump up pad on her to level out the seat of the saddle so that he's not compensating for her downhill build by leaning awkwardly?
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post #4643 of 5347 Old 11-04-2016, 10:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms View Post
If it were me, I'd go with a little larger seat. But that fits you about how our Abetta fits me, and I like our Abetta (other than the stirrups being too far back).
I like the 15" over the 16". It just feels better.

Quote:
A couple of things you can do about placement. One is to feel how her shoulder affects things by sliding your hand under and walking her. The other is to leave the cinch hanging loose, then have her do some figure 8s. If her shoulders need more room, that usually will push the saddle back far enough.
Thanks. I did this the other day and the saddle stayed on. Also, I did the pulldown test where you put weight into the stirrup with the cinch undone. I must have put 30lbs of weight into it and the saddle stayed on her back like glue.

Quote:
"The difference between pulling the leg forward (and usually lifting on it at the same time) and what the horse does naturally can be found just by walking beside a horse and feeling where the shoulder blade goes. That's what we did here: How does the horse's shoulder blade move? You would probably have to ride bareback at a trot and a canter feeling the shoulder blade as you ride to find where the shoulder moved in those gaits, but we haven't done that (yet)."

Rethinking saddle fit and shoulder blade movement

You're saddling your horse wrong...

BTW - I like this comment on their blog:

"The gun fight at the O.K. corral was actually started by two saddlemakers sitting around a bottle of whiskey talking about saddle fitting !"


good point, thanks. Walk her and feel her shoulder blade move is much easier than not walking.
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post #4644 of 5347 Old 11-04-2016, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by StephaniHren View Post
I mean, to each their own, but I've never had problems practicing between two or three lessons a week?
You take a lesson, practice the next day or the day after that (or both), then you take another lesson (which may be on the same thing you were working on, or might be on something else entirely). I get needing some time for a lesson to sink in, but does it really take a whole week for you to process what you learned and apply it? Also, it's not all about learning, it's also about having your instructor there to correct your equitation and provide feedback on your riding. You improve much quicker with someone there to remind you to put your shoulders back or keep your chin up or push your leg back, etc.


Okay, I agree with @paintedpastures and think we've talked saddle fit to death and should move on, but also: isn't this saddle super not level? It looks like it's pitched way forward, which would probably make @Hoofpic pitch way forward (and then over-lean back to compensate) and then put more pressure on the shoulder/withers (great source that explains what I'm saying). Shouldn't he have some sort of front bump up pad on her to level out the seat of the saddle so that he's not compensating for her downhill build by leaning awkwardly?
Well I usually don't have her saddle that far back, I was just experimenting and posted a pic. I usually have it a bit more forward than that and of course then it doesn't lean forward nearly as much, it's leveled but I just want to be completely sure it's behind the scapula even with Fly moving her shoulder.

I do still have those stand alone shims that I bought last week. I am going to try it out tomorrow. I am just trying to decide where to put it that's all. These are shims that start razor thin at one side then at it's thickest point at the other side. I probably could put these just behind the concho so that the shim's thickest side ends just behind the concho.
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post #4645 of 5347 Old 11-04-2016, 11:43 PM
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You don't need shims because the saddle fits, but it won't fit if you don't put it in the right place.

Placing the saddle too far back as in this photo makes it no longer balanced. I put a red dot where your horse's scapula most likely is. If you lift your horse's leg up in this position...

This is the position where your horse's scapula comes back the farthest. If you put your hand up on the shoulder as you lift the leg, you can feel how far back it goes. That is usually only an inch or so behind the usual position. I put an X on the photo where the scapula probably comes back to in the highest position.

However, the blue dot on the photo is the place on the saddle that should at least mostly clear the shoulder. The shoulder does not need to clear the front of the saddle leather (saddles are not designed this way) but only the front of the saddle tree itself. If you set the saddle so the blue dot is just behind the farthest back point of the scapula, you will see that the saddle will be in the right place about two inches or so farther forward.

You can also see how setting the saddle forward in the correct spot will line up the cinch so it fits in the girth groove appropriately. I put a black line where the front edge of the cinch should approximately go.

@StephaniHren , you are lucky to have so much time to ride. I'd love to ride every day, but between working full time and all the other stupid essential stuff in life like refilling the refrigerator I only get in about three days a week.
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post #4646 of 5347 Old 11-04-2016, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gottatrot View Post
@StephaniHren , you are lucky to have so much time to ride. I'd love to ride every day, but between working full time and all the other stupid essential stuff in life like refilling the refrigerator I only get in about three days a week.
Oh, I definitely am lucky! I'm on a gap year from adulthood, if you catch my drift, and my parents have been really supportive about the whole equestrian endeavor. I work part time to make enough for board/farrier/lessons/etc., my cell phone bill, and my car payment, but I'm very lucky to not have to pay for rent or other bills. I'm coming off of a few years in a full time IT position (and a break up with a long term, live-in boyfriend/fiance), and having the opportunity to spend so much time with horses has really been helping me sort out what I want out of life, so I'm very thankful for it.

I didn't mean it to sound like everyone should be able to get out and ride that often, so I really hope that didn't come off as offensive or in some way assumptive. If it sounded like Hoofpic had trouble with a full schedule I wouldn't be so dubious about his lack of lessons, but it sounds like he has a flexible work schedule and a lot of opportunities to head out to the barn and get some practice time in.
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post #4647 of 5347 Old 11-04-2016, 11:53 PM
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@Hoofpic did you do the thing where you put the saddle on Fly's back and slide it backwards until it hits a natural stopping point?
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post #4648 of 5347 Old 11-04-2016, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
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Wow, I've been following this rescue story but i didn't realize she looks this good, so soon again. It was just 3 months ago, this mare was fighting for her life. She was 800lbs when she got brought into care, 800lbs!

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post #4649 of 5347 Old 11-05-2016, 12:15 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gottatrot View Post
You don't need shims because the saddle fits, but it won't fit if you don't put it in the right place.
Okay thanks. The only reason why I felt she might need shims is because there is a bit of pressure at the concho, not a lot but still some. I can still slip my fingers through the front of the saddle and to the concho though from both sides. And I can do it even more with a pad under it and cinched up.[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Placing the saddle too far back as in this photo makes it no longer balanced. I put a red dot where your horse's scapula most likely is. If you lift your horse's leg up in this position...
So basically pick up your horses leg and hold it in the position as if you were picking their feet (judging by that pic).

Quote:
This is the position where your horse's scapula comes back the farthest. If you put your hand up on the shoulder as you lift the leg, you can feel how far back it goes. That is usually only an inch or so behind the usual position. I put an X on the photo where the scapula probably comes back to in the highest position.

However, the blue dot on the photo is the place on the saddle that should at least mostly clear the shoulder. The shoulder does not need to clear the front of the saddle leather (saddles are not designed this way) but only the front of the saddle tree itself. If you set the saddle so the blue dot is just behind the farthest back point of the scapula, you will see that the saddle will be in the right place about two inches or so farther forward.
Thanks, so basically how I had it the other day was the perfect spot. I had a feeling it was, it's just that after I spent 2 hours today watching saddle fit videos on youtube, I just wanted to make sure that I was clearing the shoulder. You are right though, you don't need to clear the very front of the saddle with the shoulder, just where the tree meets inside the saddle.

I spent some time today massaging the inner lining of the saddle with my fingers to feel exactly where all egdes of the tree were. Surprisingly, it doesn't go right up to the front of the saddle (close but not to the very edge), and it doesn't do all the way to the back of the saddle (here is where the biggest gap was).

Quote:
You can also see how setting the saddle forward in the correct spot will line up the cinch so it fits in the girth groove appropriately. I put a black line where the front edge of the cinch should approximately go.
True, good point thanks. I was just being overly paranoid that's all. But now I feel better than I cleared it up.

Are those full size donkeys? I didn't know you had one, I've never seen one in person (we only have mini's at our barn lol).
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post #4650 of 5347 Old 11-05-2016, 12:38 AM
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does the saddle fit?

I mean, if a saddle WILL slide as far back as this one:



then even placing it further forward may avail you nothing because it's gonna slide to where the tree fits the back the best. if it seems to fit the back in this position, and you snug it forward, my guess is that it will want to slide back all the time. shimming may reduce that.

but, if people who are THERE, who can feel the whole thing, say it fits, then I'll give them that. judgeing from a photo is always risky.
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