Why I Gotta Trot - Page 241 - The Horse Forum
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post #2401 of 3042 Old 10-17-2018, 01:22 AM Thread Starter
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@Hondo: Statistics indicate that the first 6 months of motorcycle ownership are the most dangerous and the best advice in my opinion for motorcycle safety is to literally ride as if you were totally invisible...
Thanks for the good advice. We've been reading a lot and watching videos. For some reason I've always wanted to own a motorcycle, even though I've only been behind other people on them. Not a thrill seeker but am attracted to "fun." Our thought is to buy a used, less powerful bike and learn to ride discreetly in parking lots (DH has some experience but from many years ago), then take our driving tests, then test drive and get the ones we want to own.

Quote:
@SueC: I don't think horses like Chip and Bones were crazy at the outset - I don't think their technicolour, larger-than-life, turned-up characters are craziness, but I think they are more prone to developing craziness, like self-mutilation, if they are kept in conditions that don't let them explore and work and have sufficient mental and physical stimulation and socialising...

...PS: A semantic point: Above I am distinguishing "pathological crazy" from the other use of crazy, the good-crazy joie de vivre and antics of horses like Chip and Bones, and people like ourselves
It makes me feel warm inside to think about Julian having you, and Bones having @Knave .

Yes, we're the "good crazy." And I say my horses are crazy sometimes. But it's "good crazy."
I think people have a low tolerance for "neurodiversity" in animals as well as humans.
I saw a very good video on FB that brought up the idea that neurodiversity might be good for our genes and what we consider abnormal such as autism and ADHD could be thought of as normal variants.

Something I heard once really stuck with me, and it was the idea that we're all on a varying spectrum of being joyful vs depressed, lethargic vs energetic, thinking clearly vs dwelling on unhealthy thoughts, etc. Yet we've set this line where things suddenly become abnormal. If you were one step back, you could be considered normal, and one step forward, psychotic. So to me it says we're all steps away from psychosis, LOL. It makes me accept that I don't have to be always in one state, but it's healthy to go up and down the line. And if someone steps over for a moment, that doesn't mean they'll stay there forever.

I'm learning to accept people for being neurologically diverse from me. That doesn't mean they all can do the same job, safely. It doesn't mean I can stand being around them all the time. But they can still be great people. Horses too!

Today was very hot for us. 75 degrees F (24 C) at 6 p.m. - it tends to get hotter at the coast as the day goes on, and often we get the highest temperatures in the evening rather than when the sun is high.

Nala's rider and I rode carefully since the horses have most of their winter coats in already. They didn't breathe hard at all, but did sweat a bit toward the end.

I'm getting so desensitized to bucking that sometimes I'm sort of lackadaisical about it now. Nala did a little galloping, Hero tried to run faster but was left behind. He'll try to spurt off but can't, so gets tripped up, then bucks. Then if I'm not too apathetic I give him a little spank with my flat-ended crop, he straightens out, and then canters awhile. After a few strides we tend to do it again, until we catch up closer to Nala.

It was nice being on Hero, since we were able to go in the ocean quite a bit on such a warm day. He ignores the waves when they crash on his legs. Nala, having hotter blood running through her veins, still jumps a little sometimes. I was suspicious Hero was thinking about laying down to roll in the water, so we kept going in and out whenever he tried to paw.

Amore will do anything to avoid water. It used to amaze me; I'd think, there is no way we can go around this puddle, it takes up the entire trail. But she'd manage to get part of her hooves on 1 inch of dry ground and slink around the edge without getting wet. Of course she'd smash me into the bushes, but that was beside the point.

Today we had a whole pack of four big dogs come running at us. I understand letting your dogs run loose for exercise, and etc. But letting a whole pack run off toward horses or other people? Oh well, it was obvious as they got closer that there was no leader and they were just a pack of goof balls. The closer they got, the more confused they were about what to do after the initial mad rush, so before they reached us they split up and wandered off in a few directions.

The horses had a good wash down after the ride.
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post #2402 of 3042 Old 10-17-2018, 02:05 PM
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Hmmm......is this why elementary children go screaming and jumping all over the place when turned out of confinement for recess?


@gottatrot Even though you haven't asked, I STRONGLY recommend enrolling in a professional/paid for motorcycle safety program.

I commuted for years rain or shine in the SF Bay Area on 4/5 lane freeways. And from that experience, in which I never experienced an accident, I worry anytime I hear someone thinking about taking up street bikes.

Remember, a minimally simple fender bender in an automobile can result in an airlift on a motorcycle.

I know you are safety oriented but I had to get that off my chest.
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I think it important to always be mindful that the horse actually owes us nothing at all and it is we who owe the horse. "It's a goal"
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post #2403 of 3042 Old 10-17-2018, 08:35 PM
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Another comment aimed at @gottatrot Not a thrill seeker? Just like fun? Ha! I have seen pictures where the visage of your face was, although joyous, went far far beyond joyous. I would say you looked thrilled. I'm betting the horses know it too.

Ok, I'm now crawling back into the woodwork.

Heehee
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I think it important to always be mindful that the horse actually owes us nothing at all and it is we who owe the horse. "It's a goal"
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post #2404 of 3042 Old 10-17-2018, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
Hmmm......is this why elementary children go screaming and jumping all over the place when turned out of confinement for recess?
Yes!

And look what happens when people create a better system. Caution: You may weep tears of pure happiness!





SueC is time travelling.
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post #2405 of 3042 Old 10-17-2018, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
Another comment aimed at @gottatrot Not a thrill seeker? Just like fun? Ha! I have seen pictures where the visage of your face was, although joyous, went far far beyond joyous. I would say you looked thrilled. I'm betting the horses know it too.

Ok, I'm now crawling back into the woodwork.

Heehee

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post #2406 of 3042 Old 10-18-2018, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
Even though you haven't asked, I STRONGLY recommend enrolling in a professional/paid for motorcycle safety program...
Oh yes, very aware...I've looked at a lot of videos and pictures of accidents to get that into my brain. Unfortunately, the only programs around here are the two day safety classes required to get your license. They are supposed to be very good, but I also want to have a little practice going in so I can focus and learn rather than just trying to manage the clutch and throttle.

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Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
Not a thrill seeker? Just like fun? Ha! I have seen pictures where the visage of your face was, although joyous, went far far beyond joyous. I would say you looked thrilled. I'm betting the horses know it too.
OK, ha, ha. I guess I should have said I don't do things where the risk of death is beyond what I deem acceptable. No base jumping for me.
Of course you all probably know the stats:
Quote:
Horseback riding is even more dangerous than motorcycle riding, as it carries a higher injury rate. According to one Internet report, on average motorcyclists suffers an injury once every 7,000 hours of riding. By contrast, an equestrian (horseback rider) may have a serious accident once every 350 hours.
https://www.kyforward.com/keven-moor...rcycle-riding/

Horseback riding is the sport that causes the most traumatic brain injuries.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/horse-...ry?id=38090435

Well, we kayak also and two people have died in our county kayaking in the past several years. One was just in a lake.

I guess you have to balance enjoying your life with taking too much risk, but it's also quite risky in the long run to sit in front of the TV eating junk food - that'll kill you for sure.
It's far more rare for me to take care of someone in the ER who was in an accident from skateboarding or surfing or riding a bicycle than it is for me to take care of someone suffering from the risky behavior of eating too much and not exercising. It's even more common than that to take care of those suffering from the effects of smoking, alcohol and drug use.

I think there should be some song about hoof trimming in the dark - one of my pastimes I participated in tonight. The headlamps nowadays are so good, sometimes you forget it is dark. So very satisfying to trim your own horses and see the hooves improving over time. It's great that Amore can still hold up her hooves for long periods of time at age 27 1/2. Well, as long as she has food in front of her that is.
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post #2407 of 3042 Old 10-18-2018, 07:27 AM
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Pushing on: From the first article posted, "Horseback riding is an extremely rewarding and thrilling sport,"

I rest my case:)

Agreed. I'm fond of mentioning to people that the easy chair is the most dangerous thing in a home.

To be accurate in you personal assessment from your experience with injuries from forms of high activity vs the sofa, a correction should be made for the number of people participating in the active sports vs sofa and make a per capita estimate.

That said, I have no doubt that cardiovascular disease and diabetes would win hands down.

Side note: It's so depressing when my spelling is so bad that spell check cannot even make a correct suggestion. In those cases highlighting and searching on google has to be resorted to. And so far, google has been able to make a correct guess on what spelling was being attempted.
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I think it important to always be mindful that the horse actually owes us nothing at all and it is we who owe the horse. "It's a goal"
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post #2408 of 3042 Old 10-18-2018, 07:43 AM
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@SueC That's pretty much what my pre-teen recesses looked like. But I was living on one of many marginal 40-80 acre farms surrounding a town of under 1,000 population and with under 30 total classmates.

In areas of high density populations with huge schools and a high percentage of sue prone parents, it just doesn't happen. Too bad. There are just too many people.
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I think it important to always be mindful that the horse actually owes us nothing at all and it is we who owe the horse. "It's a goal"
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post #2409 of 3042 Old 10-18-2018, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gottatrot View Post
...Of course you all probably know the stats:

https://www.kyforward.com/keven-moor...rcycle-riding/

Horseback riding is the sport that causes the most traumatic brain injuries.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/horse-...ry?id=38090435
I think those statistics are terribly wrong. "Riders4helmets" may not be the best source of statistics, and the "Internet source" cited is an older study of English riding in England. The riding world in the US is quite different. And does this really pass the smell test? "By contrast, an equestrian (horseback rider) may have a serious accident once every 350 hours." Most of us ought to be having serious accidents every couple of years, if true.
Quote:
the authors retrospectively analyzed sports-related TBI data from adults (age = 18 years) across 5 sporting categories—fall or interpersonal contact (FIC), roller sports, skiing/snowboarding, equestrian sports, and aquatic sports....

RESULTS: From 2003 to 2012, in total, 4788 adult sports-related TBIs were documented in the NTDB, which represented 18,310 incidents nationally. Equestrian sports were the greatest contributors to sports-related TBI (45.2%). Mild TBI represented nearly 86% of injuries overall. Mean (± SEM) LOSs in the hospital or intensive care unit (ICU) were 4.25 ± 0.09 days and 1.60 ± 0.06 days, respectively. The mortality rate was 3.0% across all patients, but was statistically higher in TBI from roller sports (4.1%) and aquatic sports (7.7%)
First, why limit sports to fighting, roller sports, skiing, swimming and riding? Horse riding represented 2154 TBI incidents over a 10 year period, or 215/year. 3% mortality, so...6 deaths? Maybe? Except 3% was the average and a couple of the sports were higher, so maybe 5 deaths a year? Including jumping, which is a horse sport with very high rates of head injury - at least 10 times higher in every study I've seen, with some indicating the number may be much higher than that.

Motorcycle deaths run 4-5,000 a year. Of course, more people ride motorcycles than ride horses. But if I had to choose between taking a fall at a canter along one of our rocky desert trails, or laying a bike down on the Interstate...I'd prefer to fall at a canter! OTOH, I'd feel pretty safe riding a dirt bike at relaxed speeds in the desert. I'm just not willing to spend the money on one! BTW - my daughter's one fall was at a canter off-trail in the desert, without a helmet, and she was shaken, not injured. Luck played a role. But I'd much prefer any fall in the desert to any fall on a highway!
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Riders ask "How?" Horsemen ask "Why?"
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post #2410 of 3042 Old 10-18-2018, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bsms View Post
I think those statistics are terribly wrong...Most of us ought to be having serious accidents every couple of years, if true....But I'd much prefer any fall in the desert to any fall on a highway!
Yes, and agree with your thoughts on your journal about having our information filtered vs filtering it ourselves. I don't want someone screening out "truth" for me, I want to weigh everything myself.

When I read the statistics, I wondered what constituted a serious accident. If it was every time I fell off a horse, then my stats would be way up there. I've watched video of motorcycle riders wearing appropriate gear and sliding 30 feet and getting up with just a scrape. But I consider motorcycle riding far more dangerous than riding due to the high rates of speed.

That being said, for myself horseback riding is probably going to be more dangerous. I'm not going to ride a motorcycle on any freeways, only rural roads with 55 mph speed limits. Any areas with more traffic will have very slow speeds. I'm going to wear full gear, gloves and a full face helmet.

If we're talking serious accidents on horses, I would consider anything with broken bones or ER visits. Actually, I'd probably screen out some ER visits, such as someone I heard about several weeks ago who went to be seen because her arm was sore after a fall. That's not something I would consider a serious accident.

I personally have not had a serious accident every couple of years. But if you included my pool of acquaintances...let's say in the past three years in a sample of 100 riders in my area I could tell you about two concussions, a broken femur, broken ribs and a broken wrist. I guess I'd say I personally have seen a serious horse accident or known someone in a serious accident every couple of years. The percentage is still pretty small compared to how many people ride.
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