Why I Gotta Trot - Page 302 - The Horse Forum
 12624Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #3011 of 3092 Old 07-14-2019, 05:55 AM
Started
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,432
• Horses: 0
Nice ride!

Bones shines too @waresbear , which is almost shocking but he really has the kindest heart. I set my littlest on Cash for a moment. He looked very irritated, then later ran her out of the corral. Apparently he does not approve of children. I didn’t approve of his behavior, but I guessed there wasn’t much I was going to do about it (I wasn’t out there and he wouldn’t go after someone with me there) but make rules about going in the corral.

Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you? - Balaam’s Donkey
Knave is offline  
post #3012 of 3092 Old 07-14-2019, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,650
• Horses: 2
There's no accounting for horse opinions. Amore who is the sweetest thing toward humans and would never knowingly harm anyone, is terrible toward small animals. Dogs, cats, rats, snakes, anything small like that she will randomly bite, kick or smash if she feels like it.
gottatrot is offline  
post #3013 of 3092 Old 07-16-2019, 01:40 AM Thread Starter
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,650
• Horses: 2
I like talking about spooks that horses do. There was a conversation going about anxious horses on another thread, and it made me think about horse spooks. I've noted how Amore was special, because she had many more spooks than most horses. Most horses (in my experience), have two or three "favorite" spooks that they prefer.

We've only been around Nickel for a short time, but have ridden a few spooks. Almost every single time he drops down with both front legs. It's an easy one, and both his owner and I were pleased that this is his "go to" response. I always wonder what horses are thinking, and why they choose to spook the way they do. The only other spook we've seen from him was when he went straight up with me. That one was not exactly hard to ride, but it was quite unusual so threw me for a loop. Going straight up about a foot when I wasn't expecting it meant I was suddenly falling back down into the saddle. I imagine if he had suddenly bolted I might have been left behind. Or if he'd gone backward I might have ended up on his neck. But thankfully he kept on at the same canter pace as before.

It's hard for me to say a spook is "unrideable," because with enough practice or preparation I think most spooks can be ridden. @bsms commented on this in the other thread. I've not ridden through some severe spooks such as 360 degree spins that I have also stayed on for on other occasions. I did see my friend Cassie's horse do one spook that I could definitely say was unrideable though, because I am certain no rider on earth could have stayed on. That's because she literally went in every direction you can think of at a speed no human could follow, and the movements were large enough that even holding onto a saddle could not have kept a person on. She went down almost flat to the ground, then spun left, right, back, up, forward, I can't remember the exact sequence because it was so fast but literally there were limbs flying all over the place, as fast as a cutting horse but taking up a wider space. Everyone was just like WOW. Maybe I could compare it to if you went to sit on a mechanical bull, and the motion was the tasmanian devil.


After a lot of practice I could ride almost every one of Amore's spooks. I think her brain was not organized enough to keep a favorite spook, and she made them up new each time. She would sometimes drop, sometimes run backward, sometimes spin left or right, sometimes shoot sideways, or leap in the air sideways, sometimes gallop in place or forward a few strides, sometimes buck, etc.

Nala either leaps forward, or spins to one side. How far the spin goes depends on how scared she is. Halla would either veer backward (or stop dead), or leap or spin sideways. Hero either spins/leaps to one side, or gallops in place or forward one stride. One of my friend's horses would shoot backwards rapidly.

When it comes to equitation, I personally follow three rules:
Try not to interfere with the horse's natural movement/imbalance them or cause them pain (landing on their back heavily).

Use good body mechanics so I won't tear apart my joints or cause injury. That means I'm going to err on the side of leaning too far forward rather than too far back.
This can hurt a person (speaking from experience). I've been leaning slightly too far back, had a horse lurch forward and the spine was in a position of weakness - I pulled a back muscle.

This position is too far forward for most riding but as an extreme, it is safer for your body.

I think the reason we're taught not to lean forward so much, is because without the stable lower leg pictured above, the rider is very precarious and can topple over if the leg is allowed to swing back.

Your upper body can be back without harm, if you are always bending from the hips while keeping your back aligned, and the same for bending forward. I firmly believe the spine needs to stay aligned and the vertebrae stacked up, whether you're in a saddle or sitting in a chair. This guy is still balanced through his spine, unlike the leaning back english rider. I find that the pictures of western riders doing working events (not pleasure riders) usually show good body mechanics and balance.


My third thing is that I always do what is the most stable and safest. You'll see a lot of dressage riders putting only their toe in the stirrup, or keeping their lower leg tipped back behind their center of gravity. But many very good riders still use their weight in the stirrup, the stirrup at least back to the ball or midfoot, and a better core balance.

I thought it was interesting that when I first started showing, I'd follow to the letter what my instructors said such as keeping my weight in my seat and the equitation positions. Later, after I'd learned to ride more securely I'd just sit low enough to give the appearance of sitting in the saddle, but I'd still do the more secure "hover." That was when I started getting placed well or winning equitation classes, when I was cheating and only giving the appearance of riding in the saddle. That's because it made my lower leg very still, my rising trot much nicer, and my hands completely independent.

In my mind, riding spooks requires the right balance of relaxed looseness and muscle tension in the right places. You'll not stay on if you're simply a floppy rag doll. But tension is also your enemy. But if you know how a certain horse spooks, it can really pay off to adapt your riding just in case. Putting my leg forward on Halla saved me many times when she was green and would stop dead mid-canter. It also can save you if a horse tends to bolt forward or leap.
Those are my musings for the day.
phantomhorse13 and Knave like this.
gottatrot is offline  
post #3014 of 3092 Old 07-16-2019, 02:19 AM
Foal
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 173
• Horses: 2
I starting riding five years ago, and was dropped regularly by my gelding. His spook is to bolt off.
I used to wonder why I didn't fall off other horses spooking. Then one day last year I had moved the mounting block to be right by the door to go in the arena. Four horses I led in that day, they all spooked when I opened the door and they saw it. My Mouse had the fastest reaction time by far, he just teleported a few feet away!

It is interesting that Amore never got less spooky. Good thing she's cute! And that you were the one that bought her! LOL
Mouse is now 24, his spooks have gotten less, and much slower. I'm kinda sad about it, and any other sign of him slowing down. I wonder if horses get comfortable with a main rider and that's why he spooks less, or if it's just age? :(

Edit to add: the Haflinger did a small startle, but stood his ground. Yeah, he'd be the first one eaten by a bear.

Last edited by Dragoon; 07-16-2019 at 02:28 AM.
Dragoon is offline  
post #3015 of 3092 Old 07-16-2019, 04:04 AM Thread Starter
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,650
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoon View Post
the Haflinger did a small startle, but stood his ground. Yeah, he'd be the first one eaten by a bear.
Ha ha! See, what we think is "bad," is good for horses. Amore would never get eaten.

I found this great video on how to ride safely cross country (skip the first part about helmet, vest, it gets into riding quickly).
Studying cross country was how I learned to have a secure seat. Even though we are not going over jumps, the style is what we use for rough trails or beach riding at higher speeds. This type of seat allows a person the ability to quickly maneuver around on rough footing, or sudden obstacles and to stay secure. It helps you ride through spooks, and can be used with a longer or shorter stirrup, close to the saddle or far out of it. To me the rider illustrates how just being relaxed is not necessarily the key to staying on, which is something I do hear a lot. If this rider gets too loose and floppy, he loses security and control of the horse in this type of riding. As @Knave said, we all have different uses and styles and horses, so we are all striving to get good at the type of riding we need.

We can't all try to ride the same, because for example if this rider tried to give his horse a loose rein or neck rein, he'd miss the sharp turn. This is not a pattern the horse can learn, like barrel racing, so there needs to be quick communication at times.

To me it also illustrates how riding in two point is not about simply getting strong enough to do it. If it required the strength I was initially told it does in lessons, then people would not be able to do it over long distances. What I was told was that it was basically similar to weight lifting/fast twitch/sprinting type exercise. I've learned that it is more like jogging/slow twitch/endurance type exercise. Again I compare it to skiing, with the rider balancing and using some endurance muscles rather than struggling to lift a weight with his legs. Sure, you get sore if you are not in shape for it, but that's after doing it for awhile. That's different from my legs shaking in the car on the way home after a lesson because I'd been basically "weight lifting" or sprinting with them. That's different from lactic acid building up as you use the tense muscles to hold you out of the saddle.
It all comes down to using your leg as a unit with weight in the stirrups, along with the horse's body to support you.

^^^^I thought this guy was going to fall off a couple of times during his wild illustrations of how not to ride.
Dragoon and Knave like this.
gottatrot is offline  
post #3016 of 3092 Old 07-16-2019, 07:49 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 5,919
• Horses: 3
My favorite spook was with Izzy years ago, at our first boarding barn. The indoor had a metal roof that was notorious for noisily letting go of the snowpack on sunny winter days. We were in the indoor, just cooling out from a lesson. There was a snow slide, and my instructor turned around to look at another rider, and when she turned back to look at me, I was standing on the ground next to Izzy. Confused, she asked- "why are you on the ground?" and I could only laugh and tell her when the snow slid, through some miracle of physics, Izzy had disappeared out from underneath me in an instant, and I landed on my feet in the space where she had been I so wish I had video of that because it all happened so fast I truly don't understand how she did it. I imagined it looked something like:
egrogan is offline  
post #3017 of 3092 Old 07-16-2019, 10:03 AM
Started
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,432
• Horses: 0
Hahahaha! I loved that @egrogan !

Riding horses bred to cut I kind of thought all spooks were fast and hard. Sometimes Bones can spook in several different directions like Gotta explained the one horse, and sometimes like Mouse he is suddenly very far away from something.

Cash jumps when he spooks, almost like he were starting to buck before deciding to run instead. Luckily he is getting to where he rarely spooks now and just looks at things. I’m starting to trust him. Yesterday I decided to let him drink out of this kiddy pool. He was not happy to go towards it, but getting braver and Ozzie (the dog) randomly jumped up and pulled the hose out of the pool spraying water up over Cash and I. I had to laugh as Cash spooked more like a cutter and we were gone. Stupid dog.

Zeus is like Nash. He is my education that some horses are actually very different. He doesn’t spook. Not really anyways.... he kind of tenses up and then thinks better of it. It is amazing and I love it! Who knew horses existed that were like him?!
bsms, gottatrot and Dragoon like this.

Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you? - Balaam’s Donkey
Knave is offline  
post #3018 of 3092 Old 07-16-2019, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,650
• Horses: 2
That is so funny @egrogan .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knave View Post
Riding horses bred to cut I kind of thought all spooks were fast and hard....
But that's one of the most frustrating things, when you end up in a slow, easy spook but still fall off!! That has happened to me. Like you're too prepared so mess up the easy stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knave View Post
Zeus is like Nash. He is my education that some horses are actually very different. He doesn’t spook. Not really anyways.... he kind of tenses up and then thinks better of it. It is amazing and I love it! Who knew horses existed that were like him?!
But be careful, if a horse like Zeus spooks, it is serious. My friend's horse Brave is like that, he doesn't spook. But when he one day finally saw something worth spooking over it was massive and he just flung my friend off like a slingshot. I've always thought the unflappable types are just saving it all up for something really grand.
phantomhorse13, Dragoon and Knave like this.
gottatrot is offline  
post #3019 of 3092 Old 07-16-2019, 11:22 AM
Showing
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: southern Arizona
Posts: 11,793
• Horses: 4
My wife took this picture years ago when I was on Mia. There was a large moving van in front of us with men shifting stuff inside. Sounded like the van's stomach was gurgling with hunger! Australian-ish saddle with a horn. To this day, this position is what I revert to IF I have some warning. I like having a horn. With one hand on the horn, my horses cannot get my shoulders thrown back, thrown forward, or thrown to either side. Not if the horn stays on the saddle and the saddle stays on her back.


It isn't grossly different from how I ride in "neutral". I haven't played tennis in 40 years, but as I remember it, one moved left or right to take a shot and then returned closer to center. You didn't move right, take a shot, and then stand on the right of the court. Neutral to me is more like this:


We were turning, but turns need to be balanced as well. "On your pockets" does NOT mean this, although it is how it was demonstrated to me (which is why I refused to do it):


I don't have any pictures of it and I'm not sure a picture could show it anyways unless the rider was naked. It is more subtle than that. I'm guessing this lady is on her pockets in the right way:

Hmmmm....picture disappeared. It was here before: http://cookarena.net/wp-content/uplo...PlayerCut9.jpg

It is more a looseness of the loin and rotating the pelvis enough that it feels to me like my center of gravity would flow into my thighs versus my normal Littauer-ish way of riding with my center of gravity already in my thighs. And I don't know I'm getting it right now. It isn't like I've had any good western riding lessons. This feel is what I've been trying with Bandit on the trail. I think it could handle a mild explosion forward but not the nuclear blast some horses could provide. My horse is a conventional weapon, so to speak.

It isn't "perched", but neither is it leaning back. Looking at cutters for inspiration, you don't see much leaning back. In fact, if you do an image search, there are far more pictures of a cutter leaning forward than back.

"I think the reason we're taught not to lean forward so much, is because without the stable lower leg pictured above, the rider is very precarious and can topple over if the leg is allowed to swing back."

I'm convinced two point is 95% balance and no more than 5% strength. If someone is strong enough to walk, stand or run, then they ought to be able to do two point. I think many teach two point wrong, emphasizing "two point without stirrups" which requires carrying weight in the thighs and cutting it off at the knee. If you "stand in the stirrups" (or maybe crouch in the stirrups), then your weight goes into the stirrups and gravity will keep the lower leg steady.

I obviously have never tried to do it for 8 miles. Like running, it would require building up strength, but it ought to be primarily balance. The more you can do it by balance, the less strength is needed. For trotting or cantering, I find getting at least a little out of the saddle much easier on my back than trying to absorb the motion. I still need some caution with Bandit though since he sometimes stops first and consults me later. But he doesn't just spin at random.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms View Post
...I'd swear at least half of Mia's spooks were caused by Zeus deciding to entertain the crowd of Greek gods on Mount Olympus by tossing a lightning bolt at her rump!...Zeus just finds some horses more entertaining than others...
I guess Zeus just doesn't like popping Bandit in the butt with a lightning bolt as much as he did with Mia. And I'm content not providing the gods of Mount Olympus so much entertainment...

PS: Is it just me or are people getting more unwilling to just share a picture on the Internet. I miss being able to find a good picture and share it under "Fair Use" rules of discussion. Same with video. Darn it, if you post something on the Internet, you should accept the idea that others may share it for non-profit discussion of some aspect.

Riders ask "How?" Horsemen ask "Why?"

Last edited by bsms; 07-16-2019 at 11:31 AM.
bsms is offline  
post #3020 of 3092 Old 07-16-2019, 11:47 AM
Showing
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: southern Arizona
Posts: 11,793
• Horses: 4
BTW - why would a rider miss a turn because of neck reining? Polo players do lots of turns, need a precise position to hit the ball, but ride with one hand. When I have problems steering Bandit with one hand it is because he is used to thinking independently and making a lot of decisions for me. He then can get annoyed if I try to tell him to do something else because I want a particular angle for a picture. I agree a loose rein isn't good for frequent changes of direction. But Bandit can steer just fine with one hand, including when scared. Unless he is giving me the Middle Hoof Salute. Which...is one of his favorite gestures...

Riders ask "How?" Horsemen ask "Why?"
bsms is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
You GOTTA see these!! : ) crackrider Horse Videos 8 11-28-2017 05:58 AM
Saddlebred Natural Trot vs. High Motion trained Trot 166714 Horse Training 7 06-03-2015 06:41 AM
English trot vs. German trot? Luce73 Horse Riding & Horse Activity 13 01-17-2014 11:19 AM
I gotta do this. equiniphile Horse Talk 11 07-20-2011 04:24 PM
Is it correct to sit trot over trot poles? pcmum Horse Riding Critique 5 04-23-2009 09:24 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome