Why I Gotta Trot - Page 303 - The Horse Forum
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post #3021 of 3092 Old 07-16-2019, 01:26 PM
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[QUOTE=gottatrot;1970744753


But be careful, if a horse like Zeus spooks, it is serious. My friend's horse Brave is like that, he doesn't spook. But when he one day finally saw something worth spooking over it was massive and he just flung my friend off like a slingshot. I've always thought the unflappable types are just saving it all up for something really grand.[/QUOTE]

I kind of wonder what will happen if Zeus were to decide to misbehave. He is just so good natured, but I do think he is extremely smart and tough, and he is more athletic than one would assume. So, with all his good qualities, wouldnít it be something terrible for him to use them against someone?

I get what you are saying about saving it up. To me I guess I think if you arenít having little worries that you come down from, you might not know how to come down once you do find a worry.

In any case, Iím sure Zeus will do something coltish one of these days, but I hope I never do see him intentionally misbehave. I am not sure I could handle it. I think heís much smarter than I am, and I havenít seen a single horse able to change his mind about anything. They have drug Zeus to the ground before, but Zeus doesnít give. No one will ask him to now. I wonder if it embarrasses them to be unable to move a little horse. Lol

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post #3022 of 3092 Old 07-16-2019, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
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@Knave , I was kind of joking about a horse storing it up. I wasn't really thinking of tension building, but more about how sometimes inexperienced people are super surprised when a calm horse actually spooks. But I do think there are horses that are just so confident they're never going to have a bad spook. The "world conqueror" types. If any horse is like that, it's Zeus.

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Originally Posted by bsms View Post
BTW - why would a rider miss a turn because of neck reining? Polo players do lots of turns, need a precise position to hit the ball, but ride with one hand.
You're exactly right. It's the same with working equitation, sharp turns and neck reining. I'll change my statement to: "The horses I've ridden would miss the jumps if we tried to neck rein."
I'll say that's because no one trained them to work at speed in response to one hand on the reins.
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post #3023 of 3092 Old 07-16-2019, 08:28 PM
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^^ Beautiful riding! Very "Not Bandit & I", but there is nothing wrong with being in awe of what others can do!

Riders ask "How?" Horsemen ask "Why?"
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post #3024 of 3092 Old 07-16-2019, 10:46 PM
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This exercise was tough! Really makes you arc the horse so you can keep the pole on top of the barrel, no room for error as you can see me screw up at the end of the video. My coach used to come up with all sorts of cool stuff like this. She's retired now so my lessons to myself, post without stirrups, 2 point sans irons, if I do Western, reining patterns without stirrups, ground poles with no tack, just a neck rope. With one of my horses it's not too bad, with my hotter horse, it takes a lot of concentration and preciseness.


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post #3025 of 3092 Old 07-16-2019, 10:59 PM
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Very cool waresbear!

Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you? - Balaamís Donkey
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post #3026 of 3092 Old 07-17-2019, 09:42 AM
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Just wanted to comment on what a saint the horse in the eventing vid @gottatrot shared is!!

@waresbear : your video is amazing. I suspect if I tried to do that with Phin, I would first get to experience every spook one could imagine, and then wind up skewered..
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post #3027 of 3092 Old 07-17-2019, 04:09 PM
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Phantomhorse13 Otis spooked and jumped sideways more than a few times when we first started doing this, luckily for me, I just dropped the poll and hung on!

I am not here to promote anythingNo, that's not true, I am here to promote everything equestrian and everyone enjoying horses!
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post #3028 of 3092 Old 07-17-2019, 04:44 PM
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Working equitation is pretty amazing, it isnt something I could do. I played with garrocha pole while in the states, doing the turns and twist was surprisingly harder than I expected. I rode a PRE who is switching from dressage to working equitation because dressage is boring for him and the collected work is too demanding and hard on his joints. Working equitation collected is less hard on them that way, higher level dressage is super hard on the horse's body and this PRE would be bored out of his mind with the low level stuff. He really feels on a 20m circles like Oh God not another freaking circle, are you kidding me. The working equitation seems to be good for him.

waresbear- it look really good, that garracha pole is harder than it looks.

I think with eventing we also use two reins because quite frankly at the higher levels, if you dont get the angle or get the horse just right to the fence, it can result in a rotational fall or death of both. I think part of why they ride two reins too is a lot of event horses at the high levels are really special personalities. MUCH MUCH hotter than a polo pony, I cant speak for working equitation but they're definitely stronger than those ones. I think they'd work out the one rein thing and just take over and do whatever they please. Some of those horses are REALLY REALLY tough and REALLY strong, quick thinking horses with their own minds. A good cross country horse should not solely rely on the rider but be able to navigate an obstacle alongside a rider. They have to think for themselves a bit but still LISTEN.

I wish more people could sit on a proper event horse, that is a place for very special minded horses. I really think too many people have not sat on or experience a horse that really thinks for itself. I think a lot of people would wake up when they realize a horse is not a machine where you just put in the right code and suddenly it's perfect or when they realize a rider/handler is not God who has all the power in the world to make a horse what they want it to be. Horses have their own minds and ways of being, I think a lot of people are blind and arrogant thinking they can control a horse and all problems are rider/handler error. I hear that, I'm like clearly that person has no experience. Sorry slight rant but one pet peeve of mine is people who think a horse is like a machine where a rider or handler just puts in the perfect coding sequence and like magic the horse is perfect and they can mold a horse to be whatever they want, it just doesnt work like that.

I know Mary King, olympic event rider, absolutely amazing rider gave up a ride on a horse because it was too strong and was a dangerous combination for her.

As for shared videos, I'll also say a lot of professionals do not share their schooling videos for a reason. There are always critics who think they know it all, without understanding the situation, horse or anything but their own opinions. I think a lot can be learned from video and photos but a lot of people simply wont show anything unless it is close to perfect because arm chair critics with little experience bash without understanding.

Last edited by DanteDressageNerd; 07-17-2019 at 04:50 PM.
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post #3029 of 3092 Old 07-18-2019, 05:00 AM Thread Starter
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@waresbear , that video was great! Looks super hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanteDressageNerd View Post
I think a lot of people would wake up when they realize a horse is not a machine where you just put in the right code and suddenly it's perfect or when they realize a rider/handler is not God who has all the power in the world to make a horse what they want it to be. Horses have their own minds and ways of being, I think a lot of people are blind and arrogant thinking they can control a horse and all problems are rider/handler error. I hear that, I'm like clearly that person has no experience. Sorry slight rant but one pet peeve of mine is people who think a horse is like a machine where a rider or handler just puts in the perfect coding sequence and like magic the horse is perfect and they can mold a horse to be whatever they want, it just doesnt work like that.
It would be nice if that were the case! No, actually it wouldn't, because then horses would just be machines. We'd miss out on all the nuances of their individual personalities.

I've been realizing lately that something has changed with Hero and I, in the past several weeks. It's a little bit difficult to categorize, but I think we're going to make better progress now. You might say he's shown me everything he's got, and it's made me feel that I have an understanding of his reactions.

It's hard to explain, but I've been through this with all three of my horses. You don't know at first the extent of all their reactions. To be safe, you don't push at certain times because you don't want to go too far. There's always this nagging insecurity because you're not sure how far this horse can go. For example, if Hero reared and I scared him, would he flip over? If he got really upset when another horse left him behind, would he explode or fall down? Etc.

I've been riding Hero for about a year and a half, so it's almost surprising to notice this change. But even though it's taken a very long time, I think he is finally starting to really listen to me. It reminds me of my Papillon, which people say they are great dogs but terrible puppies. I remember saying Gilligan this and Gilligan that and his eyes were just glazed and inattentive. A day or two after his first birthday, I said "Gilligan" and he looked into my eyes and focused like "Yes? What did you want?" Before that it was all noise to him.

Hero must have tried to bite (or bite) me a couple hundred times at least, and received a reprimand. Whatever I did seemed ineffective. Except now he doesn't try to bite me. Sometimes if he's really upset he'll flap his lips at me or move his mouth toward me, and then if I wave my hand he'll overreact and be very contrite. He's stopped threatening to kick me. He's letting me groom him and come in close and put my hand over his head and nose, and sometimes he looks in my eye and it's a very sweet look.

People say the horse has to respect you or you need to dominate the horse. I was thinking today that it's more like the folklore about naming, or knowing the true name of something. In one fiction book I read, if you knew the true name of something you had power over it, and that was because you understood all the properties of whatever it was; if it was a person, you understood their emotions and motivations and all about them. Even though it's been quite a long process, I'm beginning to understand more of the bigger picture of Hero.

If he gets really upset, he (like most horses) wants to trust that I will be bigger than that. Bigger than his bucking or panicking or rearing. He wants me to tell him what is up, and then to take comfort from that. That is really hard to do, even if you're extremely confident and secure and think you're willing to risk whatever. There's still a small part of you that is waiting for the really bad thing to happen.

But the past several weeks, I've seen how if I am truly "above" what is happening, it makes a big difference. For example, on the beach the other day something was really scary and Hero got really tight, scrambly and started leaping around under me. I just said "It's fine," whopped him one smack with the crop, and he was literally calm within 5 seconds and back into a nice walk. But I actually felt deep down that it was fine, and he knew that. It's not as simple as "confidence," but you actually have to know the horse well enough to get there.

Yesterday I was pushing him to do very adult horse things in the field, riding in small circles with some lateral movement, fast transitions, and backing. A loud car went by while his brain was engaged, and so he felt overwhelmed and reared. I leaned forward, looked him in the eye, and very slowly bopped him on the cheek, which he thought being whapped on the face was a severe reprimand. Five seconds later he was back into the work, focusing and calm. I felt comfortable pushing him back up to see if he would reach that point again, but he didn't. He didn't want to get face bopped again.

And I don't think it's what I'm doing, but what is different is that he is thinking about how what he is doing is creating a response from me, so he is not just reacting and thinking I am just flying along with him, but instead has gained the focus to relate my reaction to his actions. Like most horses, he does want to please, so he is beginning to pull himself out of his emotions and changing behaviors based on my feedback. As long as I was even a little fazed by his behaviors, he was not able to join me in calm analytical space. Suddenly, I'm seeing his eye, and his thoughts, and he's processing things along with me.

I really believe it's not just about being a strong leader, or getting a horse's respect. You have to know the horse, and sometimes the horse has to know your name too. Trust can take a very long time. And even if they trust you, they might know that you can't quite trust their responses at times, and that you're being wary and safe. Which you absolutely have to do so there's just no short cut. That's why I believe a partnership can need to develop over a long time with a horse, especially if the horse has had previous experiences with other riders and trainers where they've been let down.

Something about Hero's "true name" is that he is a bit like that hysterical woman in the old movies. It's so politically incorrect now, but they used to say "Get a hold of yourself!" and slap someone across the face. Honestly, it sounds silly but Hero is like that. He panics, I say "Get a hold of yourself!" with a smack, and then he does.
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post #3030 of 3092 Old 07-18-2019, 08:57 AM
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Ive read that book, loved it. The Name of the Wind.

I like your concept of truly knowing the horse, but am sad to realize I may never know my gelding's true name. He is old now, and had a whole lifetime of riding experience before ever coming here eight years ago. I only came along five years ago, and all we do is arena ride. There are no trails here near the city and I don't have means to trailer anywhere. So our relationship is not tested the way yours and Hero's is.
At 24, he is beyond the age of most disciplines...and I suspect he has done it all at some point. I have little to teach him, but he has much to teach me! Perhaps he knows MY name...
I took a handful of dressage lessons, and while I was awful to the point of being yelled at, Mouse got nothing but praise for how he stepped out. Of course he's better at riding than me, he's been doing it four times longer, LOL!
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