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post #21 of 33 Old 11-18-2014, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Wisconsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordillera Cowboy View Post
Why should what this lady thinks matter to you? How do her horses behave? How does she handle misbehavior?
I have some respect for her, she does some driving with one of her geldings and had a lot of tips for me on that subject so I guess I appreciated her help from that. But to be honest her horses definitely have her number, one walks ahead of her while leading, one knows how to get out of work and she lets him. I haven't seen her really correct them, I guess she raises her voice at them, but it doesn't really solve the situation for the next time.

I do get insecure, talking things out on these forums do make things more clear for me.... I appreciate the support.

Now I just want to hear about crazy CTJ moments!
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post #22 of 33 Old 11-18-2014, 11:49 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Alberta, Canada
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Smaking a horse on the face can be abuse or can be too gentle, depending on the horse. For example:

a big draft has a history of being overbearing and invading space. the owner has tried to deal with this issue before with little progress. The horse reaches over and nibbles, for the third time that session, on its owner, and gets a light smack again, which doesn't even phase it. Clearly it needed a stronger correction.

or, the opposite. a 6 month old arab filly that tends to be nervous and sensitive is sniffing around her owners pocket and nibbles on the fabric. The owner reacts by smacking her face, sending her backwards in a wide eyed panic. Obviously this was WAY over correcting.

I have a major issue with people who shove their noses in the business of others with no real knowledge about the situation. Its pretty obvious if you see someone slapping a freaked out horse that's trying to get away from them that something is not being done right. Apart from obvious abuse, any smart person will stand back, watch how the handler interacts over time, and decide from there. What horses do to each other out in the pasture is much more forceful than any punch I could inflict.

That said, I agree with as little force as possible and as much as necessary. If you are consistently having to use force on your horse, you are not doing something right.
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post #23 of 33 Old 11-18-2014, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peppersonlygirl View Post
it wasn't a very hard smack either, almost like how someone would pat their horse on the neck for being good.
What?? You mean people actually SLAP their horses as a REWARD??
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post #24 of 33 Old 11-18-2014, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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Location: Wisconsin
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Hey Ive seen people give some pretty good smacks to the neck while saying ''thata girl''!! Lol
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post #25 of 33 Old 11-18-2014, 09:00 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ontario
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I had a 17.3h OTStandie that did something - I don't remember what anymore, but I backed her a solid 60+ feet over rough terrain after whatever it was! Probably rearing. I had a few moments with that mare, but that one was the worst. I'm pretty sure that before the long backing, I had reprimanded her already for the same thing so having to do it again made me decide that she needed MUCH more enforcement.

I remember when I was about, oh, 10 or so, I used to ride a little white pony. Cute as a button. Anyway, one day she started running back to the barn when she was supposed to be walking. I was tall enough, that I jumped off of her while running (cantering? trotting? I don't remember), whipped her head around and yelled at her "When I say woah, I mean woah!" It was a real Bugs Bunny moment and everyone there just about fell off their own horses laughing!
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post #26 of 33 Old 11-18-2014, 09:25 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Williams, Arizona
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I may be in need of some kind of newbie 12 step program.

When Hondo nibbles at a location where he thinks a treat may be hiding, I give him a big hug around the neck AND a treat.
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The Mustang has no place in modern society. The Mustang belongs either free on the range or in a forever caring home.
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post #27 of 33 Old 11-18-2014, 09:30 PM
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I like to be as kind as possible, but as hard as necessary.

It always cracks me up about all these NH gurus who spout "You should never ever EVER have to result to force or violence with a horse". If they were truly about natural horsemanship, then they would treat the horse as if it were in your little herd of 2 and you were the alpha mare. Which means, if they step out of line, they get a warning; in actual horse language, that would be pinned ears and the stink eye, human version would be the stink eye and a vocal cue of some sort. If they continue to misbehave, then they get a bigger warning; horse language = nip or paw or grazing kick, human language, firm bump with a halter or smack with an open hand. If they blatantly ignore or charge past those warnings, then all bets are off. Alpha horse will charge and remove hide and hair with teeth and hooves until they get their point across. For the human, that means doing whatever is necessary to do the same. If that means having to take a whip or a crop or a lead rope to them, then so be it.

My mustang, who is the alpha of my entire herd, including 2 drafts and 2 crosses, is great for putting young horses with. Not only does he protect them from the bigger horses, he teaches them how to be a proper and respectful member of his little equine society. My older draft cross (pictured in my avatar), when he was about 6 months old, started getting nearly unmanageable because he thought he was the alpha in his little herd (mustang was not housed with him at the time). He bossed his momma around and bossed all the others he was housed with. When he's already almost as big as a 2 year old standard sized horse, that's tough to deal with. I was struggling to keep any semblance of control over him and it was a constant battle to keep him grudgingly respectful of my space and my orders.

I finally had the idea of putting Dobe (mustang) in with him. When I introduced them at liberty in turnout, the first thing Rafe (draft cross foal) did was run up, arch his neck, squeal and paw at Dobe. When he didn't immediately back off from a pinned ear and the stink eye, Dobe proceeded to grab him by the scruff of the neck and basically tackle him to the ground. He held him there for a few seconds, gripping Rafe's neck with his teeth and leaning on his ribs and neck with knees. When he let Rafe up off the ground, the attitude difference was amazing. Rafe immediately turned into an upstanding, mellow, and respectful foal and I never had another lick of trouble or disrespect out of him.
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post #28 of 33 Old 11-18-2014, 09:35 PM
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Location: Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
I may be in need of some kind of newbie 12 step program.

When Hondo nibbles at a location where he thinks a treat may be hiding, I give him a big hug around the neck AND a treat.
And, ehem, where exactly is he nibbling that he gets rewarded for this??? You'd better hope he only nibbles...

Honestly though, if you are being serious, you should correct this behavior - yours and the horses!
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post #29 of 33 Old 11-18-2014, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
I may be in need of some kind of newbie 12 step program.

When Hondo nibbles at a location where he thinks a treat may be hiding, I give him a big hug around the neck AND a treat.
Sounds good to me... if he doesn't like being hugged, and he's stopped nibbling & is putting up with the hug by the time you feed him the treat. Just be aware of what exactly you're reinforcing.
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post #30 of 33 Old 11-18-2014, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs View Post
all these NH gurus who spout "You should never ever EVER have to result to force or violence with a horse"..
Don't know that I've heard that from any 'guru' myself... altho maybe it's a matter of 'ignoring the bits you don't agree with'. Perhaps I should PM you for a list so I can... remain ignorant to them! So saying, I don't agree with using violence ('force' too subjective... & useful a term...) in training. Whether or not horses are 'naturally violent' to eachother or not is irrelevant. It's more like an 'emergency measure'.
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