Biting after girthing - Page 4 - The Horse Forum
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post #31 of 72 Old 02-21-2016, 11:08 AM
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I've used pellets and the powder - both seem OK and the powder didn't seem to worry my one sometimes picky horse
More serious ulcers will need a course of Omeprazole

If you didn't notice my previous comment - have you wormed with Moxidectin since you've had him?
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post #32 of 72 Old 02-21-2016, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Foxhunter View Post

A well fitting saddle does not need over girthing. I like to be able to get a couple of fingers between the girth and horse.
I have an extremely accomplished rider friend who believed that.

A trip the ER changed her mind.
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post #33 of 72 Old 02-21-2016, 12:52 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jaydee View Post
I've used pellets and the powder - both seem OK and the powder didn't seem to worry my one sometimes picky horse
More serious ulcers will need a course of Omeprazole

If you didn't notice my previous comment - have you wormed with Moxidectin since you've had him?
I wormed with Eqvalan Gold: EQVALAN® GOLD PASTE
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post #34 of 72 Old 02-21-2016, 02:55 PM
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My horse was acting irritable with the girthing process as well as for mounting/ unmounting. My trainer and I felt like it was pain related; so after trying a few different things, I treated him with this- Abler | Prevention and Treatment of Equine Gastric Ulcers Omeprazole-Abprazole-Abgard- | Abler | Affordable, Effective and Easy to Use Horse Medication. After about two weeks of treatment, he seemed much better. After the 28 day treatment dose, I gradually weaned him off by lowering the dose. I read that if you stop the omeprazole suddenly, they can experience an acid rebound effect, in which they produce more stomach acid. It has helped my horse tremendously, and he no longer acts irritable with girthing or mounting.
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post #35 of 72 Old 02-22-2016, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Acadianartist View Post
I wormed with Eqvalan Gold: EQVALAN® GOLD PASTE
The only wormer that will kill the encysted form of small strongyles (commonly called redworm in the UK) is one that contains Moxidectin or a 5 day treatment of one that contains fenbendazole,
They don't show up on a fecal count unless you're lucky to catch them in the emerged state and it could take quite a few samples to do that but still no guarantee you will be lucky - and the costs of testing start to mount up so its as well to just routinely worm for them at the end of the winter or early spring before they start to emerge (though they can stay encysted for up to 2 years)
I'm putting some links for you to read - they seem to be regarded as something 'new' here yet have been known as a massive problem in the UK for many years.
I've seen horses die of a heavy burden and also know of one very lovely young horse that the owner had euthanized because it was deemed unrideable - it also had such a meltdown when girthed one time that it caused the handler serious injury. It was sent to the hunt kennels to be shot and when they opened it up it was literally full of encysted worms to the point that its digestive system was ulcerated and comparable to a sieve.
The Worm That Kills - And Why Only Two Worming Chemicals Can Stop It - The Horse's Back
Small Strongyles | TheHorse.com
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post #36 of 72 Old 02-22-2016, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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Will read this tonight jaydee! Thank you! He could be wormed again since it's been nearly three months since the last one. I will read this and see what I can buy locally that would work. Will keep you in the loop.
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post #37 of 72 Old 02-22-2016, 04:47 PM
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I've had various horses and trainers tell me different things on a situation like yours. One trainer said to have a carrot ready and when they turn to bite they get the carrot instead and then its like a pleasant surprise and changes their attitude. I felt it was just rewarding them.
Another trainer I was a working student for had a mare that had ulcer issues as a baby and so always became sensitive I guess. She was very crabby when saddling, grooming, etc. What she had me do with her is do everything very slow and gentle. Like grooming 'bad' areas I would go slow and gentle. Girthing I would do in very very small stages. Go up a hole, wait a few minutes, another hole, few more minutes, etc. I actually do the girthing in small stages with my horse and he very much appreciates it and is great for that. Anyways, back to the mare. The trainer had me always use a cushy saddle pad for her and fuzzy/cushy girth as well. She eventually stopped biting, but would still lay her ears back and move a bit. I don't know if that ever could fully get fixed. She was in such a bad habit for so long.
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post #38 of 72 Old 02-22-2016, 05:34 PM
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the lady who suggested I try the clicker training with a small bit of carrot said that it's kind of like preparing them. THEY chose to accept the saddle, because they know it's coming, and is associated with the treat. they can chose to NOT put their head forward and wait (the action that earns them the click/carrot). in which case, they don't get the girth tightened, but they don't get a treat , either.

they learn that when they move their head forward, they are going to get BOTH the carrot and the girth, but at least they are ready for it. something about them having placed themselves in the "ready" position can reduce the resulting resentment.
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post #39 of 72 Old 02-26-2016, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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After Harley successfully bit me in the arm last night (he just pinched the skin, but it was enough), I decided to consult my vet about ulcers. If he had done this to my daughter... well, that might have been it for their relationship. There are a lot of things I can take from a horse, but not biting. I went after him hard, but I feel bad if he's in pain. And he was very, very girthy so it seems to be getting progressively worse. I've been looking at ulcer treatments, but there are a lot out there and not all are available locally... furthermore, I'm the kind of person who likes to get to the bottom of things. So I called my vet who told me to bring in a fecal sample. While they're at it, I will have them test for worms too.

Now I understand that signs of ulcers may not show up in a fecal sample. He also told me that scoping might not reveal ulcers in the stomach, but there could still be some in the intestines so that isn't foolproof either. If they find signs of ulcers, we will start an aggressive treatment. If not, we will start a milder treatment (consistent with low-level ulcers). So either way, he will be getting treated.

I'm going out of town this weekend and will see if I can find a wormer that contains Moxidectin. There are none locally.

Just wanted you all to know that I am following up on this. I hope to get results shortly and will let you know what comes out of it! Have to go stand in his stall now and wait for him to poop (they asked that it be as fresh as possible)... fun!
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post #40 of 72 Old 02-26-2016, 02:53 PM
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The only (possible) sign of ulcers that will show up in a fecal sample is blood if they're bad enough to cause internal bleeding
The sort of encysted worms that cause enough pain to make a horse girthy also rarely show up in a fecal sample
A full blood test might have been more useful as the encysted worms and ulcers can both cause anemia
Hope you can sort something out
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