Biting after girthing - Page 6 - The Horse Forum
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post #51 of 72 Old 02-26-2016, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by elle1959 View Post
Can't you buy omeprazole over the counter? I buy it for myself from Amazon.com and I don't see why you would need a vet to get it for your horse.
I don't elle. But I don't want to treat my horse for anything without getting the vet's advice. I don't have a medical degree so I don't want to be giving my horse drugs without a professional supervising it. A few years down the road when I've been there and done that dozens of times like lots of folks here, then maybe, but I'm still new to this and I want to do it right. I guess there's a part of me that also wants to understand all these physical issues and the effects of giving the drugs, including potential side effects, etc. etc.
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post #52 of 72 Old 02-26-2016, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by elle1959 View Post
Can't you buy omeprazole over the counter? I buy it for myself from Amazon.com and I don't see why you would need a vet to get it for your horse.
I can also get OTC Omeprazole for myself.

It is not the same as the compound form the vet sells.

As I stated above, I have tried OTC things on my Arab, including ranitidine, human Omeprazole, aloe juice, you name it.

First it takes so many pills per dose of human pills, it isn't a cost savings.

Second, not one of those things worked. The only thing that helped with the gastric stomach ulcers was Omeprazole from the vet.

If hind gut ulcers are an issue, Omeprazole won't help them, they are a whole nuther critter to treat.
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A Good Horseman Doesn't Have To Tell Anyone; The Horse Already Knows.

I CAN'T ride 'em n slide 'em. I HAVE to lead 'em n feed 'em Thnx cowchick77.
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post #53 of 72 Old 02-26-2016, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks walkthewalk...good to know!
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post #54 of 72 Old 02-26-2016, 11:36 PM
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After reading all the posts, I'm wondering if this isn't a health issue at all but that he's figured out what works and is pretty much getting away with it. Horses with ulcers will often tail or even cow kick but your horse isn't doing that. My arab always had runnier stool than the other horses and it often started like watery cow pies then watery again, regardless of diet. Maybe the next time he tries to bite, give him a good consequence, a whack on the ribs with a crop. He may scoot forward. It takes 3 or 4 times before a horse figures out the consequence of his actions. Or back him up, make him hustle by tapping his chest with a crop. And back him about 30'. The next time go farther and never talk or pat him but turn and lead him back to where you were. When backing him look at him like you plan on murdering him. He'll pick up on it.



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post #55 of 72 Old 02-27-2016, 01:45 AM
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Interesting video done by a vet to palpate for ulcers. Might help you, doesn't cost anything so can't hurt trying.

https://youtu.be/7iusu1f2_HQ
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post #56 of 72 Old 02-27-2016, 01:52 AM
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I wasn't suggesting giving human pills, just that it should be available from someplace like Valley Vet to buy for horses without requiring a vet visit :) Editing to add, after seeing OPs post, I can see that she just wants to be cautious about what she gives, so .... in the words of Emily Latella (old people will remember) ... never mind :)
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post #57 of 72 Old 02-27-2016, 06:59 AM
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I am going to say something probably not too popular. (ruling out health issues) Remember who Harley is. He is an animal that weighs over 1/2 a ton and he has the ability to hurt you. Remember he is a horse. Snuggling and playing a game with the nail with him, and indicating that he's so cute that it's hard to get mad at him tells alot. What he is doing is not cute.Think about that. He is not your dog. I am not a trainer but almost every horse or every other horse I have ridden as a lesson horse was girthy. Lots of reasons for it. Mostly children and frequent adult riders hauling on the girths and stomachs, ill-fitting girths, trying on girths over and over again, and horses learning little tricks to intimidate or evade. I can only share a few tips but I am only a stranger on the internet and so who knows if these things will be effective. Be no nonsense with Harley, never turn your back on him and get a proper fitting girth that is elasticized. The girth isn't only for Harley's comfort but for you too. The pattern of "anticipation" has to stop. He sees the blanket and reacts. You have an advantage He's YOUR horse. You can work with that. It's much tougher when it's a lesson horse, believe me. There are some good strategies that people have mentioned on this thread, maybe they will work for Harley. Even when you lead Harley, be assertive, even the walk and ground work is very important and establishes who is the leader. With a good girth doing up should be smooth, gentle, quick and downplayed because you should memorize which holes the girth can be done at for saddle security. Yes, the girth should be snug enough always for safety but not so tight that you are hauling at it and making it an issue. Lead him assertively to the arena, no nonsense, and one tactic could be backing him up,(discuss maybe with the instructor) practice your walking and/or getting on him with a mounting block then after awhile doing up the girth while you are on the saddle.Have everything set out and ready to go ahead of time. As long as you are a strong enough rider and you know Harley enough to time and do this safely. Another "possible" strategy could be cross tying him and then having someone distract him but not near him, use a toy or something and doing this while you smoothly do the girth in split second timing.I once used a squeaky toy. It worked for this one horse and I used another strategy years later. Again, it's breaking the habit of anticipation. It takes patience and a long time but it is achievable. I am not never, ever an advocate of rewarding bad behaviour. Ever! If the horse works well, he gets a nice pat. Even treats for some horses, and overly done, can reinforce bad behaviour. Also, how you manipulate the reins, particularly the outside rein can control his ability to turn his head. When you lead, how are you walking? Get your instructor to help you. Lunging to nip is no small thing and you don't want it to escalate. I do not know you or your horse. I do not know if Harley is a seasoned horse or what his past is.It sounds tough but I am an advocate of the elbow and crop, but I don't know your horse and so it's hard to be certain.Get someone who knows more than you to help. Be vigilant-especially with your daughter. She too must learn he is a horse and must be treated accordingly and that includes establishing horse/human boundaries and safety protocols. I am a believer in "tough" love. Maybe this isn't what you want to hear and I am sorry for the long post.
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post #58 of 72 Old 02-27-2016, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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No worries Sirius, some have suggested what you suggest too. He has an elastic girth. I don't think him biting me is funny or cute. What I was trying to say is that the nail is ineffective because he thinks it's a new game.

I have no problem leading him. He only nips when, or right after I pull the girth tight. A few minutes of riding and he forgets all about it.

I can certainly pull the girth while he's on cross-ties, but he will nip at me afterwards, as we walk from the barn to the indoor arena. He holds a grudge for a few minutes and knows I am the one who pulled the girth.

I've tried smacking him on the neck or shoulder. I've tried making him back up. I see it coming and bump his nose or poke him hard with my elbow. So then he anticipates my movement and tries to evade. I need to step up my game.

Saddlebag - it may very well be just a behavioral issue. If that's the case, then it has escalated and I need to deal with it differently. My riding coach is not very knowledgeable when it comes to ground work but I know someone who is. I may bring her in to do a session or two. In the meantime, I will have ruled out a couple of physical causes.
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post #59 of 72 Old 02-27-2016, 10:46 AM
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We were pretty sure one of our horses had ulcers this last fall. Vet just handed us the medicine to treat him without an exam. We asked why no exam, her explanation was:

-Meds are cheaper than an exam. Exam is $300 while the meds are >$100, don't remember the exact cost.

-Most stabled horses have at least minor ulcers so there was a darn good chance ulcers would be found if we went looking for them. Basically they ulcerate easily when stressed and stable life is stressful to them. She did add that mostly the ulcers are minor and not causing a health issue until they get bad.

-Ulcers are less common in pastured horses due to lower stress levels. But...simply putting them in a trailer to go to a show or trail ride might cause them to develop an ulcer.
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post #60 of 72 Old 02-27-2016, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
We were pretty sure one of our horses had ulcers this last fall. Vet just handed us the medicine to treat him without an exam. We asked why no exam, her explanation was:

-Meds are cheaper than an exam. Exam is $300 while the meds are >$100, don't remember the exact cost.

-Most stabled horses have at least minor ulcers so there was a darn good chance ulcers would be found if we went looking for them. Basically they ulcerate easily when stressed and stable life is stressful to them. She did add that mostly the ulcers are minor and not causing a health issue until they get bad.

-Ulcers are less common in pastured horses due to lower stress levels. But...simply putting them in a trailer to go to a show or trail ride might cause them to develop an ulcer.
What a smart vet you have!

This has always been the philosophy of both vet facilities I have used.

If the horse has gastric ulcers, the Omeprazole will help. If the horse does not have gastric ulcers, I'm only out $100 vs. the cost of scoping; not that $100 is "only" but it beats the alternative cost:)

I can see why high dollar event horses should probably be scoped but testing the acidic juice waters with a bottle of Omeprazole works just fine for the majority of horse owners

I rescued my Arab, starving with an injured vertebra from??? He ended up being a pasture pet when he wasn't giving lessons to small children.

He lived with ulcer flare-ups his entire life, no doubt due to his condition when I found him, but also because, once I was able to give him back his self-esteem, he became second-in-command in a passive leadership role.

A role he took very serious as the horse in my avatar was the strong alpha and pritt-teee bossy/bitey in his younger days, lol

The #3 & #4 four horse could often be found running to the Arab, looking for comfort and the Arab did not take his counseling sessions lightly.

In his latter years, he dealt with tumors in the hind area, which caused him a lot of stress.

My point in trying to align with ^^^your thoughts is that equine ulcers develop for a lot more reasons than humans want to acknowledge:)

A Good Horseman Doesn't Have To Tell Anyone; The Horse Already Knows.

I CAN'T ride 'em n slide 'em. I HAVE to lead 'em n feed 'em Thnx cowchick77.

Last edited by walkinthewalk; 02-27-2016 at 11:11 AM.
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