Breeding Drama...Questions? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 04-22-2014, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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Breeding Drama...Questions?

I posted this in the New To Horses section because while I am not new to horses, I know very little about BABY horses and since this involves already born horses, I didn't think it really met the requirements for the breeding section.

My friend paid for a foal from her friend's mare. She paid 50% of the cost while the mare was in foal and she was supposed to pay 50% after the foal was born.

Well the foal was born yesterday and apparently some drama went down and she told me about it all and now I have some questions for you breeders.

***I know this honestly isn't really any of my business but I am curious and would like to learn about how it all works when someone buys a foal pre-birth and stuff.***

How does it usually work?

In my friend's situation the mare's owner sent the mare to the stallion's owner to foal. The stallion's owner is an Arabian breeding farm.

The stallion's owner called the mare's owner and my friend when the baby was born and both of them went out. Apparently only the vet and mare owner were allowed in the stall during the birth.

Once the foal was born, the mare owner's vet checked both the mare and foal over and filled out a vet report. My friend, however, was never allowed in the stall to touch the foal. The mare's owner said that her mare was maiden and didn't like strangers and was very stressed out.

My friend wanted her personal vet to check the foal over but the mare's owner said that she wouldn't allow that because her mare does not like strangers and she didn't want her mare to have any added stress.

However, she then refused to give my friend a copy of the vet report.

It all ended with my friend and the mare owner "agreeing" to my friend not paying the other 50% of the breeding and not getting the foal.

The stallion owner told my friend that there are two other mares in foal to the sire of what would have been her baby and that when they're born my friend can get first pick of which one she wants. So at least she's not out a foal entirely.

__________________________________________________ _____

Ooookay....all that background information to then ask the following questions:

Do they normally only allow the vet and mare owner in the stall during birth?
Is it odd or normal not to allow the foal owner in to see the foal?
Is it odd to refuse to let the foal owner's vet check the foal?
Is it odd to refuse to let the foal owner see the original vet check?


I personally feel that both the mare owner and my friend had valid reasons for their actions (not wanting to cause the mare more stress/wanting to see the foal she paid for).

There's a whole FB rant about this on the breeder's FB page. The stallion owner is staying out of it for the most part. They originally tried to mediate it but the mare owner seems to be very upset. My friend has not posted on it.

As someone not involved in the slightest with breeding horses I think it's all very dramatic and maybe a bit silly to be this uptight about it.

I'd love for some experienced breeders to share their opinions and help me better understand.
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post #2 of 22 Old 04-22-2014, 03:33 PM
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I can understand not wanting any more people than necessary whilst the mare is foaling.
I would also say that the foal owner has the right to see the foal but not necessarily have contact with the foal the next day. Best to let the mare bond with the foal.
As for the second vet check or showing the vet report that is very odd and I would question it.

As the mare owner seems to be acting very oddly I would question whether she ever had any intention to sell the foal, certainly I would not expect to pay a thing.
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post #3 of 22 Old 04-22-2014, 03:33 PM
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I feel like the mare owner, upon seeing the foal, decided they didn't want to give it up after all.

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post #4 of 22 Old 04-22-2014, 03:38 PM
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Clarification please.

Did your friend already pay 50% towards all this? Or did mare owner?

If friend did, she needs ALL her money back ASAP.

Was there a written contract? What was the cost, approximately of this whole foal going to be?

I would be thinking mare owner pulled fast one and had no intention from the get go of letting foal go, or as another said, decided foal was a good one.

Shoddy business dealings sounds like to me.


Could also be price of these foals has gone up and someone else offered more money?


But the one getting the foal, should have been able to see foal the first week, and her vet should have been able to see vet report.
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post #5 of 22 Old 04-22-2014, 03:42 PM
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Yep. I'm lost. I don't understand why your friend would be ok with paying for 50% of an animal she will never have any rights to.

I agree with the OP that this seems incredibly over-dramatic. Eugh.
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post #6 of 22 Old 04-22-2014, 03:44 PM
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PETA has everybody thinking that horses and dogs are family and NOT property. This was a business transaction and I doubt that the buyer got anything in writing, so she or he is S.O.L.

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post #7 of 22 Old 04-22-2014, 03:50 PM
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Do they normally only allow the vet and mare owner in the stall during birth?
Normally yes in my experience. I've always held the opinion that the less stress there is the better on the mare. However, the foals bought in utero from my bosses farm the prospective owners of the foal had the option to come out and watch, but not go out in the stall or interact with the mare and/or foal. Typically it was the vet, the mare owner, my boss and me (the mare owners sometimes can and sometimes didn't)

Is it odd or normal not to allow the foal owner in to see the foal?

The first few days, yes. We had the policy one week and then the foal owner could come and interact with them. They could come and see them but we asked that they be accompanied by a worker because that's the time for the baby and mommy to bond and we also didn't want any contamination from any potential sick horses.

Is it odd to refuse to let the foal owner's vet check the foal?
Yes. Yes. and YES. That to me is a big warning sign. I can see the first few days (again, we asked buyers to hold off on outside vets for a least a week so that we could make sure mommy and baby were okay and that they didn't get too stressed out.

Is it odd to refuse to let the foal owner see the original vet check?
Yes. Yes. YES. Even though outside vets weren't welcomed for a week we always provided a copy of the original vet check done by our vet for the buyers and outside vets records/information.

Sounds to me like this lady wanted to keep the foal. If I was your friend I'd want all of my money back and then go for the foals that the stud owner offered her. Wasn't there a contract before putting the 50% down?
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post #8 of 22 Old 04-22-2014, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
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As clarification was asked for....


YES my friend and the mare's owner DID have a written contract for this breeding

YES my friend has a copy of this contract on hand

The contract states that my friend will pay 50% of the cost at the time of the original breeding and 50% of the cost before she takes the baby home.

I was not privy to the finances involved.

Another question: My cousin and close friend (same person lol) had a broodmare that they bred a few times and I asked her opinion as well. She says that even though they have a contract, if it's not legal, it doesn't help. So then comes another question: How does a contract not be legal?
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Last edited by ForeverSunRider; 04-22-2014 at 04:05 PM.
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post #9 of 22 Old 04-22-2014, 04:21 PM
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Then, it's off to the attorney and to find out if this is $worthy of small claims court.
People should never take a written contract lightly. This owner is liable. The only question is if the $50 fee is worth the fight.
If it's worth the money to pay, an attorney can start writing letters that demand the money back OR the product delivered. (The time of delivery is understandably 6 months down the road.) My DH is an attorney and he has successfully written letters of this sort for friends.
IF your friend is not satisfied, I would certainly let everyone know that the mare's owner has lied about a business transaction, bc I'm sure that she will again breed this mare.
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post #10 of 22 Old 04-22-2014, 04:33 PM
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Do they normally only allow the vet and mare owner in the stall during birth?

Unless there is a problem where physical intervention is needed, I don't allow anyone in the stall during the birthing process. We can watch on the monitor from inside the house, and that way the mare never needs to know we're watching.

Is it odd or normal not to allow the foal owner in to see the foal?

I would ask the new owner to wait a few days after the foal was born, preferably a week, but it's their foal so if they refused I would take them in to see the foal on the monitor and out to the stall where they could look in and see the foal in person. I wouldn't permit any handling for about a week.

Is it odd to refuse to let the foal owner's vet check the foal?

Very odd, but I also wouldn't understand why one vet's opinion wasn't good enough.

Is it odd to refuse to let the foal owner see the original vet check?

That is extremely odd and would make me very suspicious.
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