Breeding Drama...Questions? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 22 Old 04-22-2014, 04:37 PM
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If a contract wasn't written up and signed between the two of them before your friend had even thought of paying fifty percent down on the foal, that's the biggest concern I would have with this particular situation. You always want to depend on professional contracts for this sort of business deal so something like this doesn't happen in the future when people are more likely to change their minds after they see the foal and decide to either keep it for themselves or sell it.

Now, usually when mares are giving birth it's normal to not have a huge crowd there, nor allow tons of people inside the stall to immediately start touching all over the baby because this will only add more stress to the mare. I've had the best of our foaling experiences with only a few people around. I don't see how it's fair to only exclude the owner of the foal because, well, they did pay good money for it and should be able to fully share in the birthing experience. As long as the foal's owner is knowledgeable, clean, and acts calmly around the mare and foal, I see nothing wrong with it. The mare should have been getting to know your friend during her gestation period to prepare for the birth if the mare, quote "doesn't like strangers". It isn't odd to allow three people, your friend, the owner, and the vet, inside the stall during the birthing process. I usually demand that we have at least three people so we can properly maintain and help with the situation.

If the foal's owner insisted that they have their own vet check the mare and foal out (which I always like to do, anyways), they should be allowed to do so sometime during the first week. So, was it odd that the owner of the mare refused? Yes. That just further tells me that the mare's owner had decided, then and there, that she was going to keep the foal to herself. Period.

Who wouldn't allow the foal's owner full access to the original vet check? That is probably one of the most disturbing things I see about this whole shady situation....

Again, the mare's owner may have planned this all from the beginning or just decided to keep the foal for herself when it was born. I don't expect to hear anytime soon that your friend received a full refund for the money she has already paid down on the foal.....unless, of course, a contract was involved.

I hope your friend will make wiser decisions in the future if she decides to participate in this type of situation again, and I also hope she wasn't completely hung out to dry in the end. The stallion owners should probably suggest contracts to any future clients from now on if they would like to avoid all this drama.
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post #12 of 22 Old 04-22-2014, 05:43 PM
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if the foal seemed healthy a 2nd vet wouldn't need to check it. The vet usually does a minimal exam if things went well.
If it was unhealthy then I am sure they would want it treated and pass the costs along to you. A person would not have any right to see a vet report that wasn't their mare nor one they did not pay for.
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post #13 of 22 Old 04-22-2014, 06:36 PM
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Many people prefer to have their personal vets check everything out because it's always best to get a second, or even third, opinion. One of our mares was initially misrepresented to us before we personally evaluated her. We were told by the owner, and her veterinarian, that the mare had simply injured her leg and was expected to heal within a matter of weeks. What did we find? The mare had actually popped her knee several years ago and her leg had calcified itself in a bowed-out, deformed state. This is why you ALWAYS seek a second or third opinion before you accept the information you have been given with anything more than a grain of salt. This is why the foal's owner probably wanted a copy of the vet reports that were done on the mare and foal so she could present them to her personal vet and seek his/her opinion.

Actually, she did pay for the foal (at least fifty percent of the price), so she's entitled to receive any and all vet reports regarding the foal and the mare. You're not supposed to pay a price nor buy the vet reports done on a horse you have paid down on or own. The vet is supposed to hand you a copy without asking any further questions.
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post #14 of 22 Old 04-22-2014, 07:40 PM
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We have always had at least the vet, barn manager, owner, and owners family (sometimes students as well) in the stall after the birth. It is usually around 5 or fewer people in the stall. That said, our mares are very, very good about having people around the babies. We also tend to encourage others (who are horse experienced), particularly at boarding stables to pet/handle/lead the foals. The foals from these sort of situations tend to be very easy going, easy to work with and people oriented. Keep in mind that horses are precocious and are able to run within 2 hours of birth. So, they are basically born ready to learn. For our horses, humans are part of their every day life and a key element to them being successful in life. It makes it easier for them as young horses to be broken to harness if they are already used to people touching them everywhere, being everywhere. They don't know any other life other than people being around.

I think its odd that they did not allow the vet or share the vet report.
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post #15 of 22 Old 05-30-2014, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
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Well my friend finally got her baby.

The stallion owner came through and gave my friend one of the foals. Sadly the other foal didn't make it She was born with a broken leg and had to be put down after only a few hours.

But she did get the final foal. A buckskin filly. So here she is. MM TooBuckNHot 1/2 Arabian, 1/2 Quarter horse.

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post #16 of 22 Old 05-31-2014, 10:48 AM
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Hmm. Born with a broken leg? Doubtful because the bones are too soft to be broken in the womb, this from my equine specialist after my recent colt was born with a severely bowed looking rear cannon bone. My colt is fine, uses the leg just as a colt should, but will always have the bowed cannon bone.

Your friend was lucky to get the cute filly, but the colt probably didn't need to be euthanized. I thought that was going to be the end for my colt but he is fine.

I hope my pics loaded. These are of Ranger when he was only 3 days old, he is a month old now and is doing great. I won't be able to do barrel racing, halter or roping, but trail riding should be just fine on him.
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Wendy B / Sedgwick, KS / Extreme Trail Riding / Camping
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post #17 of 22 Old 05-31-2014, 11:04 AM
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If the foal truly had to be put down, why all the secrecy about the vet report and other stuff? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

I'm not a breeder, but if I were, and I had a promised a foal to someone, I would offer up the injured/deformed foal at a lower price, refund their money completely, or offer another breeding down the road. Why would you keep the foal's condition from the owner? The last thing I'd want at that point in time is a buyer (and quite possibly the buyer's lawyers) hounding me about their foal. I just doesn't make sense!
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post #18 of 22 Old 05-31-2014, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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Just to be clear, there were 3 fillies born. The original filly and then the two that the stallion owner had personally bred.

The first filly was a bay and that is the one that had all the drama related to it. That filly is doing fine I assume.

The second filly was a chestnut and was born with a broken femur and they decided to put her down. This buckskin is the third and final filly born. The stud owner kept their promise and gave my friend (or allowed my friend to purchase) the final filly.

In any case, she's cute and my friend is very glad to be done with the drama related to the first filly.
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post #19 of 22 Old 05-31-2014, 08:52 PM
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So did she get her money back from the original foal, or no? I would be so upset. But I'm glad it worked out!
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post #20 of 22 Old 06-01-2014, 12:53 AM Thread Starter
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I don't think she did. But she was so ready to be done with the drama that I don't think it bothered her.
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