Can someone tell me if this is a Foundation QH or quality of bloodline? - Page 4 - The Horse Forum
 57Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #31 of 41 Old 07-28-2015, 11:55 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: The sandbox
Posts: 6,655
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecasey View Post
They're both mares and both have Top Sail Cody bloodlines! Yes!
True they do, but the second horse posted the TSC is farther back and has Peppy San Badger. I have nothing against that as I have a 3 year old colt bred with both the TSC and PSB and he is extremely talented! Beautiful mover, a ton of cow, smart but he does have a cranky side that I have found comes from the PSB. But again the Peppy is a ways back on the horse you posted.
I am just going off papers alone. Of course you have to take into consideration, conformation, disposition in person, training and price ;)
Posted via Mobile Device
ecasey likes this.
COWCHICK77 is offline  
post #32 of 41 Old 07-29-2015, 06:04 AM Thread Starter
Started
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: I'm an American girl living in southwest France
Posts: 1,563
• Horses: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by COWCHICK77 View Post
True they do, but the second horse posted the TSC is farther back and has Peppy San Badger. I have nothing against that as I have a 3 year old colt bred with both the TSC and PSB and he is extremely talented! Beautiful mover, a ton of cow, smart but he does have a cranky side that I have found comes from the PSB. But again the Peppy is a ways back on the horse you posted.
I am just going off papers alone. Of course you have to take into consideration, conformation, disposition in person, training and price ;)
Posted via Mobile Device
I would love, love, love a list of QHs (big names) that are known for their cool heads and passing that gene on to their offspring! Being new to this breed, I'm really shooting in the dark here, and the horse's personality is probably the most important thing to me. And I've found after buying a few horses now that I don't really get to know the personality until it's too late to return the horse!

“When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes. ” ~ William Shakespeare
ecasey is offline  
post #33 of 41 Old 07-29-2015, 01:08 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 8,721
• Horses: 12
I really like Colonel Freckles' bloodlines. The mare I wrote about in your other post goes back to him and her foals, and grand foals are all good minded horses. I also have another gelding that goes back to him that isn't so closely related to the family line that I have and he's a good honest horse too. His lines tend to be favored in the reining circles. I had a trainer tell me once that he really liked training them because while they may take a little extra work to learn something the first time, once they knew it they never forgot it.

Two-eyed Jack is another line that I like for a good steady trail horse but they also tend to be a little lazy. Not that they won't work all day just don't expect them to do it with speed. LOL
ecasey likes this.

R.I.P. JC 5/19/85 - 12/9/14. You made my life better.
JCnGrace is online now  
post #34 of 41 Old 07-29-2015, 01:22 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 8,721
• Horses: 12
I guess I should have added that I formed those opinions from my own horses but in talking to others whose horses carried those lines they would list the same traits. That is what tells me both of those horses that I mentioned were pretty potent in passing those traits along although they may be several generations back. These days they may be so far back as to not be as relevant. I don't keep up with the breeding trends today.

I also had a Skipper W mare that I absolutely adored but what I've heard in discussions about that line is people either really love them or really hate them so it may be a crap shoot on whether or not you get a good one.
ecasey likes this.

R.I.P. JC 5/19/85 - 12/9/14. You made my life better.
JCnGrace is online now  
post #35 of 41 Old 07-30-2015, 04:48 AM Thread Starter
Started
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: I'm an American girl living in southwest France
Posts: 1,563
• Horses: 6
Thank you! Great information. It's really fascinating to me, how horses can pass certain traits down consistently sometimes.

“When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes. ” ~ William Shakespeare
ecasey is offline  
post #36 of 41 Old 07-30-2015, 08:18 AM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Temple, Georgia, USA 🇺🇸
Posts: 1,241
• Horses: 3
Subbing, this is interesting And I don't know anything about any of this so maybe I'll learn. PS- though it's not uncommon, it never ceases to make me want to giggle when a horse has more than one of one of its ancestors in its pedigree. Breeding with its own child?? XD Sorry, I had to say that XD
hollysjubilee likes this.

Have a blessed day!
LilyandPistol is offline  
post #37 of 41 Old 07-30-2015, 10:15 AM
Started
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SW Michigan
Posts: 1,537
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecasey View Post
Thank you! Great information. It's really fascinating to me, how horses can pass certain traits down consistently sometimes.
I would be cautious about assigning particular traits, good or bad, to horses that are so far back in a pedigree as to be irrelevant.

If a particular horse shows up once 5 generations back there are also 31 other progenitors. 4 generations back each progenitor contributes just 1/16th of their genes.

Personally, I would only attribute personality traits as far back as grandparents.
greenhaven is offline  
post #38 of 41 Old 07-30-2015, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
Started
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: I'm an American girl living in southwest France
Posts: 1,563
• Horses: 6
Good point.

“When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes. ” ~ William Shakespeare
ecasey is offline  
post #39 of 41 Old 07-31-2015, 12:25 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 7,950
• Horses: 12
I came up with 89% using FQHA for the Doc Soliva Lena mare. It all depends on the registry and how they calculate TB. All of them offer a paid service to calculate for you and provide examples of their formula. Yes, the math can be tedious.
ecasey likes this.
QtrBel is offline  
post #40 of 41 Old 08-01-2015, 10:20 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 6,024
• Horses: 0
Both horses are very much 'Foundationbred'. Their actual percentages depends on the registry used. All are different. You have to remember that none of the so-called foundation registries are actually 'registries'. They are all 'for profit' companies owned by someone. They have no actual boards of directors and only function to make one family or small group of company owners, money. They write and change the rules as they go. They offer little in return but a piece of paper.

Before I put very much stock in actually getting 'registration papers' from one of these registries, look around and see if they have shows in your area. In Oklahoma, the FQHR is huge. They have shows with 700 to 800 entries at each show; They have youth activities, year-end awards and many reasons to join and get your horse registered with them. NFQHA is big in other areas, but with no shows or activities around here, there is no reason to bother with giving them money for nothing but a piece of paper.

Since AQHA has added the 'ranch' division (done to counter the large number of people involved in the foundation movement), there is a lot more incentive to go to AQHA shows that offer these classes. Then, horses can actually earn AQHA points and actually have a 'real' record' to follow them. Members with an Amateur membership can earn a real AQHA show record as well.

To me, percentages mean nothing at all. I have found very few horses worth riding that have no Three Bars or other TB in them. After all, before 1940, horses could go back to remount stock (mostly TB), mustangs or draft stock. All of the stock that the King Ranch bought were TBs, but since they did not list them individually on early registration applications, they are not considered TBs by these so-called foundation registries. The name is a sham. If the 'Lazarus mares' and Peter McCue were listed as the TBs they actually were, the only 'foundation horses' would be mustangs and draft stock. Even Joe Hancock and Old Sorrel were grandsons of Peter McCue.

Good horses are good horses. 'Old' TBs were the best saddle horses out there at that time. The cavalry figured out what breeding and 'type' worked under saddle and that was what they used. They were not the bird-legged fragile TBs of today bred for only speed. You have to remember that races 100+ years ago were miles long and the horse had to be ridden to them. Today's TBs would not cut it and would not even resemble the old ones.

The two horses listed are really nicely bred foundation horses. They are both a combination of cutting and reining breeding. These are all lines of foundation-bred horses that have been selectively bred for extreme athletic ability and good minds that take a lot of high-pressure training.

It is this ability to take stay sane and keep on trying under high pressure training that knocks the Wiescamp and halter-bred horses out of the game. The Two Eyed Jacks made good roping horses and can take the pressure, but they are thick-skinned and not very athletic. The cutting and reining-bred horses are thin skinned and 'feely but crude training methods do not work very well for them. 'Rough' handed and crude riders get along better with the thick-skinned and more dense ones.

Probably the biggest thing you have to watch for in the cutting and reining-bred horses is size and bone (along with soundness) Some are too refined and too light-boned to hold up to hard work.

We have raised them for years and love them. BUT, we have selectively looked for breeding stock that is a little bigger and heavier made than most. They will probably not ever make World Champion cutting or reining horses, but will sure cut a cow, have athletic ability and will stay sound and carry a big rider.

Cherie
stevenson, dlady, ecasey and 1 others like this.

visit us at www.wolferanch.com
Cherie is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bloodline craeli48 Barrel Racing 0 04-24-2015 04:38 PM
What do you think of his bloodline?? TNcowgirl35 Horse Breeding 0 06-28-2014 10:01 PM
Foundation Reining Training Centre - Training Quality??? Monty77 Horse Training 4 02-10-2012 04:59 PM
Does anyone know this bloodline? MyLittlePonies Horse Breeding 4 09-04-2011 11:40 PM
Bloodline Help csimkunas6 Horse Breeds 4 08-09-2011 09:40 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome