Collection vs natural horse movement - why would horses not choose collection? - The Horse Forum
 327Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 177 Old 03-10-2016, 05:40 PM Thread Starter
Yearling
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,280
• Horses: 0
Collection vs natural horse movement - why would horses not choose collection?

Why is collected movement better than what a horse does naturally? Surely they would move collected on their own if it's better/more efficient/more comfortable?

I know they collect in nature but not for any length of time. We try to get them moving like that much longer than they would choose to.
Horsef is offline  
post #2 of 177 Old 03-10-2016, 05:43 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 6,082
• Horses: 0
why do people slouch when they sit? Not stand erect? not hold their head up high. Because it is easy and a horse doesn't know the difference. It takes different muscles that need to get strength.
Eolith, rocky pony, loosie and 6 others like this.
churumbeque is offline  
post #3 of 177 Old 03-10-2016, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
Yearling
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,280
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by churumbeque View Post
why do people slouch when they sit? Not stand erect? not hold their head up high. Because it is easy and a horse doesn't know the difference. It takes different muscles that need to get strength.
Makes sense!

(OP sits up)
Horsef is offline  
post #4 of 177 Old 03-10-2016, 05:48 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 47,398
• Horses: 2
do you know what a can of worms you are opening, or are you aware, and just throwing the firecracker out again for fun? I mean, this concept has started some pretty fiery threads, but if you're up for it, here goes . . .


horse's only chose to move in a collected manner if it suits their purpose, because , it's harder work. we aske them to do it becuase, it feels good the rider, it can be great excersize and muscle building, it can set them up in a position to be prepared to make sudden changes of direction without it being hard for the rider to stay on, and . . it looks nice.
tinyliny is offline  
post #5 of 177 Old 03-10-2016, 05:51 PM
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: CT USA an English transplant
Posts: 33,848
• Horses: 3
We use collection when we're riding in certain disciplines because it gives the horse the best way of dealing with whatever we're asking it to do at any specific time so we train a horse to 'collect' to our demand
Dressage tests are (roughly translated) Training Tests but not just about collection
We don't actually ask a horse to work in collection for long periods of time at all - don't confuse riding in contact with collection. They are not the same thing at all
jaydee is offline  
post #6 of 177 Old 03-10-2016, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
Yearling
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,280
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny View Post
do you know what a can of worms you are opening, or are you aware, and just throwing the firecracker out again for fun? I mean, this concept has started some pretty fiery threads, but if you're up for it, here goes . . .


horse's only chose to move in a collected manner if it suits their purpose, because , it's harder work. we aske them to do it becuase, it feels good the rider, it can be great excersize and muscle building, it can set them up in a position to be prepared to make sudden changes of direction without it being hard for the rider to stay on, and . . it looks nice.
I'm sorry, I didn't see those cataclysmic threads. I'm just going to show myself out and keep a low profile until the dust settles

It really was a genuine question, if you look in my history you'll see I'm a begginer and have had many silly questions - please don't think I'm trolling
loosie, ChristineNJ, boots and 3 others like this.
Horsef is offline  
post #7 of 177 Old 03-10-2016, 07:22 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 47,398
• Horses: 2
I shouldn't have worded it that way. in any case, maybe, better said that you might find many folks are tired of the subject, so may be a bit jaded in their replies, such as mine. sorry.
tinyliny is offline  
post #8 of 177 Old 03-10-2016, 07:50 PM
Foal
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 130
• Horses: 0
Another term related to collection is self-carriage. The idea of collection is to teach the horse to better carry itself so that it can remain balanced when we're riding it and asking it to do various things/movements.

It takes a good length of time to develop collection, but essentially your horse will perform better if it is collected, not to say that it won't perform well when it isn't... And technically it isn't natural to "keep" a horse collected, but that's why trainers will always tell you (or are supposed to tell you) to develop your horse's muscles (specifically the top line) so it has the strength to remain that way. That and if trained correctly your horse shouldn't resist it.
SamanthaB is offline  
post #9 of 177 Old 03-10-2016, 08:42 PM
Started
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 1,691
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsef View Post
Why is collected movement better than what a horse does naturally? Surely they would move collected on their own if it's better/more efficient/more comfortable?

I know they collect in nature but not for any length of time. We try to get them moving like that much longer than they would choose to.
By nature, horses move in collection and not in collection. They walk, trot, canter, gallop. They move diagonally. They roll. They occasionally back up. They usually do what they choose to do. They sometimes do what they feel it necessary to do.

Some horses, naturally move more efficiently than others. The horse's conformation affects they way they move. Health, habit, energy level, and other things also influence how a horse moves.

Different horses react to carrying riders in different ways. This may have to do with the size, balance, and movement of the rider. It is often influenced by established habits, terrain, etc.

Many riders pay little attention to how their horse carries itself with the rider. Others are overly concerned about this. Some riders work to develop the strength and flexibility of their horses. Some riders simply ride a horse as they were taught to ride. Some riders try to ride in a way which helps make their horse's job of carrying them easier, varying what they ask with the terrain and other circumstances. Other riders don't think much about such things.

There is no single way a horse moves or a rider rides. The most we can do is study these things, think about them, experiment, and hopefully try to improve.
Ryle, loosie, ChristineNJ and 4 others like this.

Training riders and horses to work in harmony.
www.quietriding.com
www.quietriding.org
TXhorseman is offline  
post #10 of 177 Old 03-10-2016, 09:38 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 20,527
• Horses: 0
OP, I've been here a long time and was surprised by Tiny's response & unaware of the 'can of worms' too, excepting in that some of course have different & strong opinions... I thought it was a good question for the 'new to horses' section.

Anyway, basically agree with others. Depends what exactly they're doing as to whether they 'collect' naturally, altho agreed, they generally don't. But they don't tend to be anywhere near as 'athletic' naturally as people often ask of them, not to mention they don't naturally carry heavy weights on their back either. Have you ever given 'horsey rides' to kids? I bet you 'collect' yourself for that too, esp if the child is reasonably heavy.
updownrider, jaydee, wbwks and 1 others like this.
loosie is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Natural Collection maiblematrishon Horse Talk 11 03-12-2015 08:18 PM
Getting Collection in a stiff horse lhasa sincerity Horse Training 5 08-06-2013 10:02 PM
Collection on a school horse Mythical English Riding 11 04-05-2012 11:16 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome