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post #991 of 1323 Old 11-21-2015, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
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I just got home, spent a good 3 hours at the barn.

I think my mare has got the head lowering down really pat.

It was so nice to see her again, Ive been missing her a lot lately.

Trainer asked if I wanted to ride ___ (the mare who I normally ride, or my mare. I was shocked! I guess apparently she feels that my mare has progressed that much that she would feel comfortable me riding her (otherwise she wouldnt have asked right?)

It made me think of a sec but I said the mare, not my mare...yet. She said ok.

Now Im wondering if my trainer believes in me. She doesnt believe in equine massage therapists for horses so she didnt bring up on how I told her that my mare is a bit soar in the left hip. I didnt mention it with her again because obviously she doesnt care (otherwise she would ask). She doesnt believe that my mare is soar at all anywhere, but my equine massage therapist says she is in the left hip. Nothing serious just mild, regular soreness. Horses will always have a sore spot somewhere, its the the way things are, theyre animals. Its really unfortunate that my trainer doesnt believe in massage therapists like I do because we cant relate in this area. If my mare is sore somewhere, how am I suppose to tell her when she doesnt believe it?

Now, remember a week back or so I mentioned how I feel that my trainer doesnt care about how my mare is with me (our partnership and me earning her respect)? I am 100% confident this is the case. Today as I was saddling the mare that I ride, I was going to mention how things are with my mare so I went "oh, did I tell you?...So ___ (my mare)" And then we got interupted with something else and we didnt go back to that topic. I figure if she was interested or curious she would have asked so I didnt bother bringing it up again. I have no problem with her not caring about my mares relationship, but Im just a bit surprised thats all especially seeing how important forming partnership is when you have a new horse! I cant be the only person on here surprised.

I rode in my runners and jeans. Trainer knew, I told her, and told her why. I said im shopping for riding boots. She didnt say much, but now she knows. Riding in jeans was fine comfort wise but trainer suggested I only wear jeans when riding western, not english. Otherwise to get riding pants.

Lesson went well. We worked on more of the same, trotting in 20ft circles and me working on my balance. Trainer knows this is what i need to work on, before we move ahead. I dont have terrible balance but when trotting at a turn, I need to work on making my body go to the outside so I balance myself. Right now I have a tedency to have my body go in the side of where the horse is turning to. Trainer said this is a natural instinct and nothing bad. But this is what we will work on, then we can move onto tighter circles at a trot. She said it takes time to get really good balance. She also said that me riding should be my primary focus. Not my mares training, but me riding. I told her in the winter when it gets really cold, because my mare wont be ridden as much,I plan on riding more often. You have to remember, today was only the 3rd riding lesson Ive done with this trainer.
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post #992 of 1323 Old 11-21-2015, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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Now onto the meat and potatoes. After my lesson, I brought my mare into the barn.

Put carrots in my pocket cause I wanted to reward her with treats for picking up her feet (since Ive had great success with treats on the past 2 success stories with my mare).

I went about it casually. First off, she only tried pawing a couple times, compared to a few nights ago, today was nothing in comparison. I didnt go about it like a fire drill. I just went about it casually as if i was picking her feet (but i didnt actually pick them). I tied her, did a couple small things while she was tied, then came back to her.

Picked up her front feet (tapped the leg then put my hand down near the hoof). She picked up really well. It took her a few seconds, it didnt connect immediately. Did the other side, front leg and same thing. I immediately rewarded her and gave her over the top praise (the trainer and another boarder was in the barn as well and probably wondering what the heck im doing with my mare).

Now onto the back feet and this was another story altogether. She wouldnt pick up at all. Tapped, put hand near the hoof. Nope. Either her foot was planted on the ground like a tree trunk or she would lift her heel up and then plant the front of her hoof into the ground. Kept tapping, nope. Walloped her hard on the HQ, no response. Walloped her on the belly. No response.

Even tried leaning into her, no response. I was stumped! The good news is that I didnt have to pin her up against the wall when asking for her back feet. When I bent over towards the back feet, she didnt step away from me, which is good!

Went back to tapping her leg, kept tapping and touching near the hoof until I got a response. I kept saying to myself, I cant keep walloping her (what does that achieve?) so Im just going to stay bent over and keep tapping her leg. Finally, after about 20 times, she lifted her hoof, I grabbed and held onto it for 3 secs (I counted each time), put it down and immeidately rewarded her and over the top praise. When I held onto her leg, she wasnt SUPER DUPER generous in actually holding it up entirely for me, but she lifted it and thats all that matters, and remember, her holding it up willingly on her own is the next excersize (which I cant focus on right now).

She managed to do this twice and I rewarded her both times right away. ONLY twice but i didnt want to drag it on so I went back to asking for one of her front feet one more time (to leave things on a good note) and she immedaitely gave it to me, I rewarded and we called it a day.

After the 2nd time she gave me her back leg, when I was praising her, she let out a huge sigh.

Do I need to desensitize her more on her back legs? I dont know if shes more protective and sensitive on her back legs or shes just being a brat with me? I feel its the latter.

I havent done any desentizing with her for about a month (stick and string) and perhaps it wouldnt be a bad idea to do it again?

Im hoping she can make the connection from seeing what I ask of her on her front legs, and connect that to her back legs.

I fed her, her cubes after and we hung out for a bit. I just left her tied while the fillie that she buddied up with in her herd was being ridden. It was a live in the now moment. We both just stood and watched.

One thing about my mare (and can someone tell me what this means and Im hoping its a good thing, a good sign!!!). But I can be tying my mare (or untying) or I could just be standing next to her (like today), and she will put her chin on my hand or my arm and just rest it for a second or two. Is this a good sign? Is this her telling me, hey I want some attention, give me some scratches and rubs? Is she connecting with me? She doenst use her mouth at all, just her chin.

I felt when we were standing next to each other watching her fillie buddy get ridden (we only did it for maybe 5 or 6 mins...she was already tied up for quite some time and didnt want to drag it on), I felt it was a live in the now moment and (dont ask me how) but I just got the gut feeling my mare fed off it positively and really enjoyed it.

Last edited by Hoofpic; 11-21-2015 at 07:23 PM.
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post #993 of 1323 Old 11-21-2015, 07:16 PM
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It sounds like you're doing really well. I wonder why she doesn't like jeans for English riding? I rode English up until about 5 years ago and only wore breeches for shows. I ALWAYS wore jeans. Granted, I also always either wore a field boot or paddock boots and half chaps, but still, jeans. I don't know about up there but good breeches down here are $250-300 a pair, I always saved them for shows.

Anyhow, the balance thing. Has she had you turn your head so you look where your going and turn your belt buckle where you're going? I found that turning my belt buckle in the direction I wanted to go really helped me stay centered on the horse and not "fall in".

Relationship wise, sounds like she's all about, "Just the facts, sir, just the facts.". Doesn't matter if she doesn't care about the relationship and it doesn't matter if she doesn't believe in horse massage or horse chiropractic, you do and I guarantee your horse does, and it's you $$$$ to spend as you see fit. So as long as you and your horse are happy, go for it.
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post #994 of 1323 Old 11-21-2015, 07:16 PM
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[QUOTE I figure if she was interested or curious she would have asked so I didnt bother bringing it up again. I have no problem with her not caring about my mares relationship, but Im just a bit surprised that's all especially seeing how important forming partnership is when you have a new horse! I can't be the only person on here surprised.QUOTE]

Nope nor surprised at all, she is not curious about your relationship, she is interested in your riding at that point.

I love my trainer to bits, and I sometimes forget how many people she is teaching, and although we do chat about things, I have to remind her what we are working on, and what I want to focus on during that lesson.

Look I have a new mare, bought her in September, haven't been able to visit too often because of work commitments. Now up until this week she has not even kind of acknowledged me, she did as I said, but she doesn't interact at all. Now just this week every now and again she looks at me, and puts her nose towards me to chat, but basically, I am irrelevant to her so far. Now that is my issue to work on, my trainers issue is to make sure that I can ride her safely, and that we communicate well when I am riding.
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post #995 of 1323 Old 11-21-2015, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
#1 Finally, she lifted her hoof, I grabbed and held onto it for 3 secs (I counted each time), put it down and immeidately rewarded her and over the top praise.

She managed to do this twice and I rewarded her both times right away. ONLY twice but i didnt want to drag it on so I went back to asking for one of her front feet one more time (to leave things on a good note) and she immedaitely gave it to me, I rewarded and we called it a day.

#2 Do I need to desensitize her more on her back legs? I dont know if shes more protective and sensitive on her back legs or shes just being a brat with me? I feel its the latter.

#3 I havent done any desentizing with her for about a month (stick and string) and perhaps it wouldnt be a bad idea to do it again?

#4 Im hoping she can make the connection from seeing what I ask of her on her front legs, and connect that to her back legs.

#5 Is this a good sign? Is this her telling me, hey I want some attention, give me some scratches and rubs? She doenst use her mouth at all, just her chin.

#6 got the gut feeling my mare fed off it positively and really enjoyed it.
#1 Excellent

#2 No, and yes, she's being a turd. You're feeling is correct.

#3 No, you don't need to do it any more. When you whopped her on her hiney and she didn't react, she's not needing desensitizing.

#4 Give her time, she'll get it.

#5. I take that kind of thing like a horsey, "Hay, you're ok. I'm enjoying hanging out.".

#6 Yes, I think they let us know that they are in fact liking hanging out. You can't really describe it, but you can feel it.

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post #996 of 1323 Old 11-21-2015, 07:53 PM
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When you mare rested her chin on you, maybe she was communicating, "thank you for not be a drill sergeant the whole friggin night!"
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post #997 of 1323 Old 11-21-2015, 08:01 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians View Post
It sounds like you're doing really well. I wonder why she doesn't like jeans for English riding? I rode English up until about 5 years ago and only wore breeches for shows. I ALWAYS wore jeans. Granted, I also always either wore a field boot or paddock boots and half chaps, but still, jeans. I don't know about up there but good breeches down here are $250-300 a pair, I always saved them for shows.

Im not sure why she doesnt like jeans for english riding. It wont matter with me because when I ride her, it will be western, Im not into dressage and the english style riding boots, english equine wear etc. Not my cup of tea, plus I will never bring my mare into shows.

Quote:
Anyhow, the balance thing. Has she had you turn your head so you look where your going and turn your belt buckle where you're going? I
Head yes, belt buckle no. She always gets me to keep me looking forward and well ahead (which ive gotten a lot better at). For me though, honestly my balance when turning at a full on trot is something that im 100% confident I can fix and overcome with practice and more riding. Trainer believes it as well, this is why she wants me to ride, ride, ride.

its all a mental thing as well, whenever she tells me to do something differently, I not only make a note of it on my plan sheet that I carry around but a mental note of it as well. And I keep telling myself this and reminding myself. The more I do it, the more its set in the back of my mind.

It also doesnt help that the saddle im using is not the most comfy haha, my butt can get soar at times while on it. That cant be a good thing. But its definitely a distraction that I have to deal with when riding.

You know when I think of it, when my trainer asked me if I wanted to ride ___ (the mare ive been riding) or my mare. I think she was asking that to test me. She knows 100% deep down that im not a competent enough of a rider to ride my mare. She knows it, I just know.

She probably just asked me it to see what I could choose and that because I declined to ride my own mare, she sees me as having my head still in the right direction.

Reason why I say she was asking this to test me was because I was asking her how my mares training is going. I was asking if shes still as sensitive in the saddle as before, she said yes. Anyways (without going too much in detail), we talked more about her training and she ended up saying quote "Its like someone learning to drive....just because a person may know how to drive, doesnt mean they can drive a Ferrari"...."Its not just about being able to ride her, but when unexpected things come up, you need to know how to handle it". And yes unexpected things will happen in the saddle with a green young horse.

THAT right there, told me that she knows 100% im not ready to ride my mare. So then why would she ask me if i wanted to ride my mare today? Shes testing me. She wants to see if im getting too ahead and too confident in myself or if my mind is still on track. I declined her invite to ride my mare and hopefully she respects me even more after today, seeing how on track my mind and attitude is.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again. My BO and trainer know im in this for the long haul, they know im dedicated in learning and it all stems from my passion for horses. I just dont think they know just how commited and dedicated I am. The barn helper at the old barn and my old trainer both truly knew just how commited I was and even said that it wasnt everyday that they would come across someone with my drive and will to learn. Thats why Im not 100% sure if my trainer is fully confident in me. I still think that she thinks I just come out to brush my mare and feed her hay cubes, thats it.

I know what she thinks everytime she sees me with my mare. Im a green rider and green horseperson and I chose a green chose. Not the wisest decision. Im sure the BO feels the same. I just dont think both are aware of how commited I am in making my partnership with my mare work.

Quote:
Relationship wise, sounds like she's all about, "Just the facts, sir, just the facts.". Doesn't matter if she doesn't care about the relationship and it doesn't matter if she doesn't believe in horse massage or horse chiropractic, you do and I guarantee your horse does, and it's you $$$$ to spend as you see fit. So as long as you and your horse are happy, go for it.
I feel shes only focusing and caring about my riding because she knows thats what i need to focus on right now.

Im just a bit shocked that she doesnt care about how things are with my mare in I from the previous problems I brought up with her (and we did 2 lessons on). I told her everything, I spilled the beans with her. She knew how many problems and bad habits that I had in my mare that I was wanting and working on fixing. But that was 1-2 months ago. Ive made some great progress in fixing a couple of them and my trainer doesnt know it because she hasnt asked.

For instance today, when I brought it up with her, I was wanting to tell her the 2 great success stories ive had with my mare. But i dont think she cares.

The reason why her not believing in equine massage therapists is because she is riding my mare. So if my mare is sore somewhere, I let her know so that when she works with my mare (even brushes her), she is aware of it thats all. But if she wont take equine massage seriously then its no good.

I know 100% forsure that I am a believer in equine massage, why? Because my mare was lame just after I got her - lame in her front left leg. Vet came and checked her out and said her lameness was a 1/5 for seriousness. Sutle but noticable in her walk. She suggested equine massages for her. She said she was tense in her left wither, possibly from a saddle being too tight in the past.

Found an equine massage (and she is wonderful!) and she reconized her tight left wither and worked on it and also did red light on it. After the first massage, she was better but still tight after. She showed me and got me to do a bunch of scretching excersizes on my mare every day. I followed her advice and did as instructed.

My mare was still lame a week after the massage, but because Im not a vet, I dont have the eye to pick up on lameness and determine if my mare is improving or not. Had the therapist out a couple days later and did more work on my mare and more red light. I was dying to find out if my mare was improving and my therapist said, no shes the same. When I heard this, you dont know how ejected I was. I was so discouraged. Again the same thing, she showed me and got me to do more excersizes on my mare.

A couple days after her 2nd massage I had my vet out again for a followup on her lameness. The day before my vet came out, I had my trainer (at the time) and other boarders commenting on how much more spring my mare has in her step and she doesnt look lame anymore. I remember this same day, I was doing a lesson with my trainer and she was desentizing her and she said there was no way she is lame anymore. My mare was stepping and trotting like a spring bunny. She had a lot of jump in her step again. They said to not bother with bringing the vet out again, cause they gaurenteed my mare is no longer lame.

Well my vet had to come out again anyways to give my mare more shots so I figure I would have her re-assess my mares lameness anyways. When the vet came out, we took my mare to the arena, she had me walk her, trot her and she said that my mare is no longer lame and is a night and day difference from when she last saw her. Her left wither has completely freed up. Its amazing how well my mare responded to red light.

Again, this was just 3 or 4 days after my mare had her 2nd massage done.

So yes, I am a firm believer in massage because I have seen and witnessed it with my own eyes. Ive told my trainer about this (how my mare was lame, had two massages, red light, and her left withers was completely freed up) and honestly it went in one ear and right out the other. She just doesnt care.

Last edited by Hoofpic; 11-21-2015 at 08:10 PM.
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post #998 of 1323 Old 11-21-2015, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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[QUOTE I figure if she was interested or curious she would have asked so I didnt bother bringing it up again. I have no problem with her not caring about my mares relationship, but Im just a bit surprised that's all especially seeing how important forming partnership is when you have a new horse! I can't be the only person on here surprised.QUOTE]

Nope nor surprised at all, she is not curious about your relationship, she is interested in your riding at that point.

I love my trainer to bits, and I sometimes forget how many people she is teaching, and although we do chat about things, I have to remind her what we are working on, and what I want to focus on during that lesson.

Look I have a new mare, bought her in September, haven't been able to visit too often because of work commitments. Now up until this week she has not even kind of acknowledged me, she did as I said, but she doesn't interact at all. Now just this week every now and again she looks at me, and puts her nose towards me to chat, but basically, I am irrelevant to her so far. Now that is my issue to work on, my trainers issue is to make sure that I can ride her safely, and that we communicate well when I am riding.
I do keep in mind just how many clients my trainer has. She has 4 horses of her own and horse training is not her only source of income. She is a very busy person. She is obviously not going to care about the extra stuff on her clients horses.

But you have to remember, I came to my current trainer (and met her) on different circumstances.

When I boarded there, I spilled the beans with her. I told her all the issues I was having with my mare and how I wanted to fix/get rid of them. There was a lot.

Fussing/head tossing when being unhaltered - has been fixed
Attempting to bite - has been fixed (from what i see thus far)
Leading issues - has been fixed
Not standing tied - has been fixed
Doesnt like spray bottles, fly spray - will work on next spring, started this one but couldnt really stick with it as it was not a top priority on the list
Rubbing her face on me - has been fixed

If I was a trainer and I had a client of mine come to me with this list of problems, knowing they were already in their hands to deal with. As time goes on, I would be too curious to at least not ask about how things are going.
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post #999 of 1323 Old 11-21-2015, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians View Post
#1 Excellent

#2 No, and yes, she's being a turd. You're feeling is correct.

#3 No, you don't need to do it any more. When you whopped her on her hiney and she didn't react, she's not needing desensitizing.

#4 Give her time, she'll get it.

#5. I take that kind of thing like a horsey, "Hay, you're ok. I'm enjoying hanging out.".

#6 Yes, I think they let us know that they are in fact liking hanging out. You can't really describe it, but you can feel it.
Did I do the right thing when she would plant her back legs, by just keep tapping her leg over and over and over again?

I was a bit worried when I walloped her on whether or not that was the right thing for me to do. But I just flashed back to what my past trainers would do. If the horse doesnt pick up their feet when asked, the trainer would wallop them hard on the belly.

I think when she puts her chin on me, shes talking to me, what shes saying Im not sure about. Shes always done this with me ever since i got her. I just never knew what it meant. But one things forsure, she doesnt do it with anyone else, just me.

When we were standing next to each other, there was other stuff going on, she could have ignored me if she wanted and just focused on other stuff. But she chose to put her chin on me a few times. Same when I put her back in the herd. Sometimes she will walk away as soon as her halter comes off, other times she will want to keep hanging out. But I remember that rule (as much as I would love to hang out with her and scratch her all day), I must leave first and end the scratching first, so that she wants more attention.
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post #1000 of 1323 Old 11-21-2015, 09:37 PM
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Sigh... Hoofpic I think we spoke about this before. Just because she doesn't ask doesn't mean she doesn't know. Asking you which horse you want to ride is actually a big deal and she obviously thinks things are going well between you and your mare.

People are always watching you whether you know it or not.
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